Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

translation is far from being perfect, but there are some good points about vitamin C...

s-url.info...

'Gregory 16/11/2009' - start reading from that point. they are wrong that it's caused by bacteria imho, just like all the people talking about it. seems like they're missing one simple point - sepsis can be caused by virus as well, and that's probably why they're blaming some unknown bacteria instead of mutated H1N1.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

Seeding clouds, or rather destroying them is not that uncommon in eastern europe. Look at every may day parade in Moscow or St Petersburg. Never any clouds. I've seen the planes flying above and spraying silver iodide (?) myself when i was there. Is the hardware there? Definately!

In parts of the Ukraine and the Crimea, as in entire Southern Europe you also have a bushfire season every season, during wich they use fire planes. Is the hardware there? Definately!

Do these produce chemtrails? Definately!

Proof for both is posted already in this thread, noone disputed this.

However, to deliver a viral agent by air in a corridor and over a country that has been so closely watched, by nato, turkey and russia due to it's strategic importance. I don't know...

Then our (nato) military early warning system is not what it was when i left... Nor is the Rusian's, nore is the Ukranian, nore is the Turkish any more. All serve conflicting policies, someone would have taken the big fat stick and hit the dog already. Ukraine is the stooge here, but.... Europe doesn't need a russian bio weapon that can spread around, neither does Russia need the same from Europe. You don't bite, and certainly don't kill, the hand that feeds you.

I am disturbed by the proof postedearlier, sounds convincing. You definately have something goigng there, but you you can't yet prove wich agent they are exactly spraying. Could be desinfectant, pesticie iodide, etc. There is a serious amount of coincidence there though...

So if they are all into it, nato, Russians, Turkey, Ukraine, we are the dog on wich the big stick is used now.

Regardless, this is becoming a big and imminent health threat to Europe, no matter where or how it originated, and it should be recognised.

We seriously and urgently need some dna, protein and molecular analysis of this bug!

Does anyone have more on the Transnistria angle of this? Seems most cases are in the west of Ukraine, ant that's close to Transnistria.

It's a rebel region in between Moldova and Ukraine wich is basically an enclave with a #load of old soviet weapon factories and labs, that have been under semi independent control. I bet they don't keep level V security on what they have in their canisters there.. just a hint

[edit on 16-11-2009 by McFlemish]

Originally posted by mkross1983

Originally posted by nydsdan
Okay, I may be on board with the whole notion of watching a virus to make sure it does not mutate into something severe - I understand this.

What I don't understand is the panic. Is the flu in 2009 like shark attacks in 2007 or so?

I mean, our best estimates in the "scary" numbers in this thread are 300 dead and about a million infected, right? So we are talking about 1 fatality in over 3,000 cases in a country with allegedly substandard healthcare facilities.

Please tell me if I am missing something. Right now it just sounds like a bad flu with a localized pneumonia outbreak which has been contained.

You are missing something. It is suspected that 6 to 7 thousand have died from this already.

Says who? An blog that admits they pull the "estimated figure" out of their ass?

Give one good source to back up the number of 6-7000 dead.

Jay55 claims this is a "biological gone out of control".. How is it out of countrol? 65,000 hospitalized, boy they should all be dead if this was bioweapon. Instead its about 320. In 3 WHOLE WEEKS since this thread started, that means another 1-2 weeks prior to that, people started getting sick. Sounds more like the numbers match some form of flu that doesn't have a resistance in the population, so many get sick, but still they aren't all dying.

16-26 people have been dying per day. Across the WHOLE COUNTRY.
CRAP it must be ebola or marburg or some virus that wipes out whole towns in Africa when an outbreak occurs, but in Ukraine they just get a bad case of the flu symptoms and respiratory distress, and 1% developes symptoms that perfectly describe severe H1N1 cases, which are known to happen in a small percentage of hosts, even WITHOUT any sort of mutation from the novel strain.

I wish I could turn off my brain. Sounds like fun.



[edit on 16-11-2009 by seattletruth]

We had discussed the vaccines and how the reports that all of them have squalene in them is not true. (None of the current US vaccines contain it though clinical trials are underway for more vaccines which will contain squalene and also will not).

It was mentioned that vaccines in Europe all contain squalene and I promised I would look into it.

As it turns out, there are three currently approved for use in Europe and only one of them is squalene free.

Unfortunately, it is Celvapan which is made by Baxter. It also requires two doses. (The US vaccines only require one except for children in which case the virus in the vaccine is cut in half between the two shots).

So, good news / bad news or bad / bad depending on how you feel about taking the jab, I suppose. At least the option of squalene free in EU is there.

EU Vaccine Information Page

[edit on 16-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Originally posted by McFlemish
Most of Europe has a socialist healthcare system in which you can only get your hands on this type of goodies with a serious perscription from your doctor. However, our doctors are controlled by the health administration, so they just won't perscribe this to you unless you are dying, very rich, or a member of their family.

Are you kidding, you can't get basics? Sure the US over prescribes anti-biotics, even my pets have about 3 unused bottles. wow. I don't use them but I stock them.
You can get potassium iodide on ebay. The US government even prescribe it for people who live near nuclear power plants. Oh, that reminds me, India went on alert for their nuclear plants today becuase of an intercepted threat. Seems to me things are brewing for Xmas.

reply to post by McFlemish


I agree. I've thought about that, too. If the reports are true that something was sprayed we still don't know what it was. But, obviously people in the Ukraine and Poland believe something was sprayed before they began getting ill. So, if you were the government of these countries, wouldn't you hold a press conference and state that the spraying was cloud seeding or whatever you claim it is?

Not kidding, the iodide, the antibiotics, the antivirals... all strictly on a doctor's note here in Belgium, also in Holland, France and Germany.

You can go in the pharmacy and ask, they'll ask you the note, and then to register with your electronic SIS card. You seem to be lucky on this point

Governements should exactly do this, make an anouncement. I agree. However, we are waiting the anouncement of a european president, there's a european summit thursday, and a big budget crisis.. who cares about people dying (i'm sarcastic now). Add to this the russia-ukraineeurope busines, and you see why they are quiet. What does a bunch of people dying anyway.

In light of the elections and the russian stance i think europe is going to shut up, be silent and hopefully take some precautions, although i doubt it.

In a way it's the perfect time for this.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by McFlemish]

Originally posted by McFlemish
Not kidding, the iodide, the antibiotics, the antivirals... all strictly on a doctor's note.

You can go in the pharmacy and ask, they'll ask you the note, and then to register with your electronic SIS card. You seem to be lucky

We aren't too lucky, trust me. We can't get anti-biotics or anti-virals here without a perscription either. We are able to get some vitamins or herbs, but nothing that was invented 1900+.

And I guarantee you that a bribe to the doctor in a socialized medical care system costs less than a trip to the doctor here without medical insurance.. And even with medical insurance you're still likely to pay $500+ premium a month if your job doesn't cover it. Oh, plus the $20-30 rape-pay.

We are very privileged in U.S.A to have a great and affordable health care system

[edit on 16-11-2009 by seattletruth]

[edit on 16-11-2009 by seattletruth]

Well, i've never tried to bribe everyone, certainly not my doctor, that i have for +15 Years. But i do have some kind of confidential relation to him by now

Originally posted by McFlemish
Does anyone have more on the Transnistria angle of this? Seems most cases are in the west of Ukraine, ant that's close to Transnistria.

It's a rebel region in between Moldova and Ukraine wich is basically an enclave with a #load of old soviet weapon factories and labs, that have been under semi independent control. I bet they don't keep level V security on what they have in their canisters there.. just a hint

[edit on 16-11-2009 by McFlemish]

Thats an interesting point-I dont think Transnistria has been mentioned at all.
Its not beyond understanding that Mocow itself could use Transnistria as a political tool in its plans for Ukraine but thats a different story.I think demographically there are still more Russians there than Ukraininans.

I found some info on Wilkopedia which suggest Russia did move a lot of stuff following the fall of Communism amid fears from outside;

Arms control and disarmament

Following the collapse of the former Soviet Union the Russian 14th Army left behind 40,000 tonnes of weapony and ammunition. In the subsequent years there were concerns that the Transnistrian authorities may try to sell these stocks internationally and intense pressure was applied to have these removed by the Russian Federation.

In 2000 and 2001, the Russian Federation withdrew by rail 141 self-propelled artillery and other armoured vehicles and destroyed locally 108 T-64 tanks and 139 other pieces of military equipment limited by the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE). During 2002 and 2003 Russian military officials destroyed a further 51 armoured vehicles, all of which were types not limited by the CFE Treaty. The OSCE also observed and verified the withdrawal of the 48 trains with military equipment and ammunition in 2003. However, no further withdrawal activities have taken place since March 2004 and a further 20,000 tons of ammunition, as well as some remaining military equipment are still to be removed. In the Autumn of 2006 the Transnistria leadership agreed to let an OSCE inspectorate examine the munitions and further access agreed moving forward. Recent weapons inspections were permitted by Transnistria and conducted by the OSCE.[118][119] The onus of responsibility rests on the Russian Federation to remove the remainder of the supplies.

I know, i am married to a Russian girl and we both have Ukranian and Moldovan friends, who reside both here and over there. They all seem to think this thing comes from there, or has some connection to that place. that's why i mention it.

Transnistria is a small piece of land, filled with the leftover of Soviet might.

All the other things i hear are unsourced so i shoulden't post them here, since i can't prove them. It could be biased comment from
friends with own national sentiments.

Locals there seem to be convinced enough though.

Proxies have been a handy tool before you know.

[edit on 16-11-2009 by McFlemish]

I've mentioned Transnistria at least three times in this thread already. Btw, there's a thread on Transnistria here.

Originally posted by ecoparity
We had discussed the vaccines and how the reports that all of them have squalene in them is not true. (None of the current US vaccines contain it though clinical trials are underway for more vaccines which will contain squalene and also will not).

It was mentioned that vaccines in Europe all contain squalene and I promised I would look into it.

As it turns out, there are three currently approved for use in Europe and only one of them is squalene free.

Unfortunately, it is Celvapan which is made by Baxter. It also requires two doses. (The US vaccines only require one except for children in which case the virus in the vaccine is cut in half between the two shots).

So, good news / bad news or bad / bad depending on how you feel about taking the jab, I suppose. At least the option of squalene free in EU is there.

EU Vaccine Information Page

[edit on 16-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Thanks for the link eco, but unfortunately most countries here will use Glaxo's or Novaritis vaccine which contain the squalene.

Baxter's Celvapan will only be available in some countries.

For example! here in Scandinavia it's impossible to find any other vaccine than the Pandemrix, which the Government bought through contracts with GSK - I mean, even if I wanted Baxter's vero cell developed Celvapan or the Flu Mist nasal spray without the squalene, I can't buy it here - even if I pay for it myself! - Nope!

Here in Europe it's unfortunately not like the USA where I could buy whichever vaccine I want over the counter with a prescription - the only H1N1 vaccine available here will be whatever our health care systems is offering us!

And the Government of the Ukraine didn't even signed any contract with Big Pharma early, so they didn't have ANY vaccine before this outbreak of whatever it is. But I guess they are buying vaccine now?

That's why I asked for fun in my earlier post if someone knows where in Europe you could buy it on the open market?


[edit on 16-11-2009 by Chevalerous]

I totally agree with you Chevalerous. Here in belgium you also get the vaccine that the governement bought directly in huge quantities at the firm under the flu scare. No choice in brands.

That's why i'm not planning on taking it. Unproved medicin, bought on a governement contract? Come on

[edit on 16-11-2009 by McFlemish]

If only Americans appreciated what we have a little better!
Thanks you for the reports from Europe! Fascinating info!!!

reply to post by Chevalerous


Despite accusations to the contrary, I am not pushing people to get vaccinated but I do feel everyone should have that choice as well as the choice not to get a vaccine with squalene and mercury in it. (It would be nice to see a lot of other ingredients eliminated in favor of natural alternatives as well).

It seems like a lot of people in Europe will choose to skip the vaccine as long as they fail to offer the choices, is it possible at all they will change this approach?

That really bothers me that the EU would be so "stubborn". Then again, I'm assuming the dual development paths in the US clinical trials is a response to public pressure when it could very well be that they are developing the squalene free versions to reserve for the military only as Germany was reported to have done.

There was a federal court order banning squalene from military vaccines in the US at one time but I don't know if it is still in effect or if it was overturned quickly.

I don't blame you. If I can't get it without those ingredients I won't take it at all. I've had my own problems with squalene, taking more of it would not be a good idea.

Originally posted by ecoparity
That really bothers me that the EU would be so "stubborn". Then again, I'm assuming the dual development paths in the US clinical trials is a response to public pressure when it could very well be that they are developing the squalene free versions to reserve for the military only as Germany was reported to have done.

Stubborn? I doubt it's about stubborn. Probably an economic issue. EU is socialized medicine system. Health "Care" isn't part of that system.

reply to post by JJay55


Talk about ironic, the US will be going the same way....

All the squalene does for them is allow them to cut the virus in the vaccine in half, so it's a money issue I suppose (setting aside any nefarious purpose for the squalene).

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by ecoparity
That really bothers me that the EU would be so "stubborn". Then again, I'm assuming the dual development paths in the US clinical trials is a response to public pressure when it could very well be that they are developing the squalene free versions to reserve for the military only as Germany was reported to have done.

Stubborn? I doubt it's about stubborn. Probably an economic issue. EU is socialized medicine system. Health "Care" isn't part of that system.

Really? Poland has shown that they're not in bed with Big Pharma. They actually want adequate testing done before they buy vaccines for their people. I guess that shows they don't care about their people's health.

In U.S.: "Sure lets make some new laws specifically for the purpose to rush untested drugs to the market and give producers blanket immunity. Oh no, it's not a conflict of interest that secretary of State holds huge shares in pharma companies."

If only everybody was like the perfect USA, we are the BEST at everything.

Atleast in Europe you can go to the doctor if you're sick and poor. Most jobs don't even have health bennies anymore. Health care is near unaffordable for self employed middle class, and puts a huge burden on the employers that do provide it.

I forgot, poor people aren't humans, and they don't deserve to live... THAT's the "American way".

And dissent is the highest form of patriotism.