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Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

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posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by JJay55
Heh. I like eco. This thread wouldn't be the longest thread in history without him. We need a little humor in here now and then...

Back to the subject... where's Mike?

Still around, JJay55. Just taking it quietly because I've picked up a bug. This is typical for me. Today's a national holiday (to celebrate the start of events that led to the Velvet Revolution in 1989). I often seem to get sick on my days off. Beats me why.
Not flu, though. Stomach bug. Taking activated charcoal, drinking green tea and all that. Further details are not necessary I think, but mainly now I'm just resting and sometimes reading.

Btw while this is a long thread it's nowhere near the longest on ATS. The What's Happening In Yellowstone?" thread was well over 400 pages when I last posted some time back. And that's not the longest thread either. But yes, this one has a lot of good info in it.

As to what's happening in Prague right now... This could be of interest to members in other places. Weather is quite warm for this time of year. Well above freezing and we've had no snow yet. There was a freak storm that blew through in some places a few weeks back but that snow has long since melted. So, above freezing, high humidity... Perfect for flu to spread. And it's spreading. No panic here, but the number of cases is going up. Still around what we commonly get at the start of the Autumn/Fall flu season though, say our epidemiology people.

Govt intends to start swine flu vaccinations here in a few days. Will be about 1/2 million doses involved. (ie 5% of population.) Mainly essential services people and some high-risk categories. Aside from that they only recommend the normal seasonal flu shot, which history here tells us that only a small percentage of the population ever get anyway. Can't pull a number out of the air now but I doubt that it would be even ten percent.

Many thanks to whoever posted the link to the Jama report on weaponization of certain pathogens. (Was it you, JJ?) Very significant document, that one. It interested me that they see the symptoms for all of these pathogens as including patients presenting as febrile. (Meaning they have a fever. "Afebrile" means a patient is infected but has no fever.) I recall reading that some of the Ukraine cases were afebrile, which can happen with some strains of flu in some people. This is one reason why scanning people for fever (eg at airports) in now way will "catch" all the infected ones. The other reason that during incubation, people are asymptomatic anyway, but can still be infectious. And people can have fever and not have flu anyway.

Scanning people for fever at airports is pretty much a waste of time. It's a sop to calm the masses in my humble opinion...

About that Jama report: I'm not drawing any conclusions from it vis-a-vis Ukraine. I don't see how we can work out what's really going in Ukraine when the information coming out is such a hodge-podge.

Hope what I've written makes sense. Hard to say. But if not, members please edit in your own minds to suit your own perspective...
(Joking...just joking...)

Anyway I need to take a break. Hope to be back in a day or so.

Regards,

Mike




posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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theflucase.com... 1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
interesting...

and that's even more interesting.
theflucase.com... ine&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
gotta love how her site calls everything 'swine flu scam', while assuming blindly things like this:
'Will WHO and their allies in UK labs use the pandemic plague as a cover for introducing a genetically modified, virulent virus into vaccines?'
pure fearmongering...
i won't take the vaccine, simply because noone will take that choice from me, but i think she's not thinking for a single second 'what if i'm wrong'.

'Now, I get it!! They ONLY used 34 samples to Test! So, Did they take those samples from those who had the bleeding lungs? Or did they ONLY use those, who had the symptoms of the Swine Flu?'
obviously, it's too hard to understand that H1N1 DOES cause pneumonia. this is getting insane.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 


c'mon, even age difference is rather big. besides, what if both baxter and moshe stories are hoaxes to make people believe in this conspiracy? what if NWO DOES NOT want you to take the vaccine? what if, despite it's side effects, it's meant to save only a small amount of sheeple, listening to NWO blindly, and as a result, taking it, and all the rest, with all the conspiracy theorists, patriots and most of, useless for NWO, humanity, will be wiped out? it all stinks. they were so successfull with hiding their agenda for decades and now everything suddenly gets exposed? think twice... because if you're wrong... you're doomed already.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by jedi_hamster
 


Well, I work in health care, in a hospital, and I have thought twice. And thrice.

It is not just the swine flu vaccine that I tell people to not get, it's all vaccines.

Do I think that all the vaccinations are tainted? No. Do I think that the Baxter incident should raise more alarms than it has? Definitely, YES. Absolutely.

Vaccines themselves carry a risk for neurological sequalae and other health problems, and that is my main reason for not getting vaccinated.

Whether that is Joseph Moshe or Moshe Bar Joseph, we can't really tell. There is so much disinfo out there...who knows. But to me, that man in the car looks like he's been up all night and/or tear gassed to death, so really, unless you get them side by side, how can you tell who is who?

However, the big questions are:
1. Why did they arrest that man if he is not the man who called in to the radio show? Why did they tear gas him for 15 minutes? And how was he able to resist 15 minutes of tear gas?

2. Was it really just a coincidence that someone named "Joseph" called in and warned about a bioweapon disguised as a vaccine would be let loose in the Ukraine?

Answer those two questions for me. And I would ask you to think twice, too.





[edit on 17-11-2009 by nikiano]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by innerliam

05:39 p.m.


A closed meeting has been held in Ivano-Frankivsk, at which participants agreed that epidemic of the so-called "pneumonic plague" is being spread throughout Ukraine. But the problem is its form is unknown, it is ATYPICAL nobody knows how to treat it.


RSOE EDIS





What does ATYPICAL mean in English? Is it anything like the 1918 Influenza, which is eerily similar in;onset, time-span, and then instant death within hours of contracting the symptoms?

www.google.co.nz...

[edit on 17-11-2009 by kiwitina948]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by ecoparity
Thanks to beumont for finding this, meet the actual Joseph Moshe.

If you dig enough you'll find the entire basis of the conspiracy was built on falsehood.

(I retired at 40, incidentally. I get to do what I want now. I never worked for the White House, I did do work for the government as well as most of the fortune 500 working in technology and bio-technology. I also worked as a journalist at one time back in my youth until I found out first hand what the press really is. My profile has always detailed my professional background).

Not that who or what I am is the subject of the thread but some people will do just about anything to try and discredit me for some weird reason.....


[edit on 16-11-2009 by ecoparity]


Eco,

This is from a blog. The same type of source you wouldn't believe about the 6 to7k dead. What about Moshe having his education and background listed on microbiology websites?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by kiwitina948

Originally posted by innerliam

05:39 p.m.


A closed meeting has been held in Ivano-Frankivsk, at which participants agreed that epidemic of the so-called "pneumonic plague" is being spread throughout Ukraine. But the problem is its form is unknown, it is ATYPICAL nobody knows how to treat it.


RSOE EDIS





What does ATYPICAL mean in English?


Atypical in English means not typical, or out of the ordinary.

When they talk about atypical pneumonia in the health care field, they mean that it's a pneumonia caused by pathogens that are not the most common pathogens that normally cause pneumonia.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by kiwitina948
What does ATYPICAL mean in English?


The prefix "a" in this context is used to create the negative of the word. So it means that it is "not typical". (I used the same form in my previous post where I referred to "afebrile", meaning "not febrile".)

In other words, they are saying that this does not fit the normal "type".

EDIT: Sorry Nikiano, didn't see your post as I was still writing mine...


[edit on 17/11/09 by JustMike]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 


1. because perhaps both were hoaxes?
2. did he even say his name? i don't think so.

i'm also against all vaccines in general, since they usually do more bad than good in long term. there's also a lot of saying recently that all vaccines are bad and the whole idea of a vaccine is flawed, and that there's no scientific proof that they actually work at all. ok, it's possible. but what if...
...what if it's all one big lie?
what if it's all staged, moshe story, baxter story, spreading info about vaccines not working at all?

i know there are tons of reports about side effects, but those are all caused by the technology behind the vaccines - it's not about the idea behind the vaccines itself. it's just that they're reducing costs whenever possible, making unsafe vaccines, that can be even deadly. but that still doesn't proof that despite of possible side effects that can kick in, vaccine won't work. we don't know that. what i know is that i won't take any vaccine at all. and what i also know, is that recent fearmongering in conspiracy world about NWO wanting to kill everyone with bioweapons released in vaccines, is just insane. why should they? they want to kill as many as possible? so think about the theory i've mentioned - what if it's all a hoax? what if those vaccines, no matter how dangerous they can be (we are just a bunch of sheeples for them anyway), can protect from H1N1? what if they're extremely happy that people don't want the vaccine, what if that was their goal? can you see the big picture? bunch of conspiracy theorists, some of them pretty 'high-profile', running around screaming 'swine flu scam, swine flu scam!' while grinning evilly that people believe in official version of baxter story, don't trust big pharma (i'm not saying they should, but...) and don't want the vaccine... and in the end only small group of perfectly blind and careless vaccinated sheeple may survive, together with much smaller group of conspiracy folks/patriots that will manage to survive thanks to some natural remedies. and what they will say then? 'oh, you are just a bunch of fanatic loonies. they were all listening to you, and now what? THEY ARE DEAD.'



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by jedi_hamster
reply to post by nikiano
 


1. because perhaps both were hoaxes?
2. did he even say his name? i don't think so.

i'm also against all vaccines in general, since they usually do more bad than good in long term. there's also a lot of saying recently that all vaccines are bad and the whole idea of a vaccine is flawed, and that there's no scientific proof that they actually work at all. ok, it's possible. but what if...
...what if it's all one big lie?
what if it's all staged, moshe story, baxter story, spreading info about vaccines not working at all?

i know there are tons of reports about side effects, but those are all caused by the technology behind the vaccines - it's not about the idea behind the vaccines itself.


Who knows, your theory could be right, too. I'm not saying that you aren't right. Nobody knows right now whose theory is right.

However, I would like to correct you on one point:

It IS also the vaccine itself that causes problems, not just the technology behind it. To explain this thorougly would cause me to go off on a tangent that could last for pages, and I don't want to do itself.

I'm a pharmacist, plus, I went to homeoapthy school for a year....so I've done research on both sides of the issue.

Vaccinations, believe or not, wouldn't have been possible without the research of the homeopathic physicians that came before the people who started to work on vaccines. They even thanked the homeopaths in public for their contributions to the field. The homeopaths, however, tried to warn the early vaccine specialists about the dangers of vaccination, but no no avail.

Louis Pasteur, even admitted he was wrong about several things, right before his death. (Of course, that is not taught in medical schools or pharmacy schools these days!)





[edit on 17-11-2009 by nikiano]



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by JustMike

Originally posted by kiwitina948
What does ATYPICAL mean in English?


The prefix "a" in this context is used to create the negative of the word. So it means that it is "not typical". (I used the same form in my previous post where I referred to "afebrile", meaning "not febrile".)

In other words, they are saying that this does not fit the normal "type".

EDIT: Sorry Nikiano, didn't see your post as I was still writing mine...


[edit on 17/11/09 by JustMike]






Ok thanks for that. Could that ATYPICAL mean its not of human-dna origin, as in NOT TYPICAL, not typical of the normal everyday strains of flu but a bio-engineered flu which must spread through the air in order for it to move so quickly?

Why is it moving so fast and is so devastatingly quick in killing people? Normally our immune systems can fight 'normal' influenza strains, but not this one. It seems like it moves straight in to the 'kill-zone' and does its thing.

I wonder if its linked to those 38 buderigars that dropped dead at the Bird show which is on another link on this site. Link below

www.abovetopsecret.com...

or does it have similarities to this 1918 pandemic which was so aggressive in its strike rate as well?? Link below

www.google.co.nz...

Lungs as black as charcoal...wasn't that what the plague was called? The Black Death??

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by JustMike

Originally posted by kiwitina948
What does ATYPICAL mean in English?


The prefix "a" in this context is used to create the negative of the word. So it means that it is "not typical". (I used the same form in my previous post where I referred to "afebrile", meaning "not febrile".)

In other words, they are saying that this does not fit the normal "type".

EDIT: Sorry Nikiano, didn't see your post as I was still writing mine...


[edit on 17/11/09 by JustMike]


No problem! I enjoy reading your posts!



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by JustMike
Many thanks to whoever posted the link to the Jama report on weaponization of certain pathogens. (Was it you, JJ?) Very significant document, that one. It interested me that they see the symptoms for all of these pathogens as including patients presenting as febrile. (Meaning they have a fever. "Afebrile" means a patient is infected but has no fever.) I recall reading that some of the Ukraine cases were afebrile, which can happen with some strains of flu in some people. This is one reason why scanning people for fever (eg at airports) in now way will "catch" all the infected ones. The other reason that during incubation, people are asymptomatic anyway, but can still be infectious. And people can have fever and not have flu anyway.

Yeah that was my post on JAMA, different that the usual rehashing.
Off the record, in July there was a biological transaction, code yellow fever. Spiritual deal with Mexican financier and underworld. It wasn't going to be stock piled, it was going to be used. So the swine flu was a possible cover up for that mistake. There was carefull plannng and calculation with this thing. But also this exposed those in the underworld who will meet their demise soon. Nothing is as it seems.
just sayin.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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reply to post by nikiano
 


"However, the one thing that I can remember hearing that piqued my interest was that Norway now has 20% of their population sick. Same flu? Same virus, or whatever? I don't know."

Chembreather, ATS member, is from there.......He is following the Ukraine / H1N1 on other threads........I will ask..



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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Re - The anti conspiracy theory.

Most people refusing to take the vaccine are not conspiracy theorists. That would be a tiny percentage. I think most people do not want to take it because of the risks and probably would rather take their chances with the flu. I also think the hysterical push to get the vaccine is turning people away. Most can sense that something is up if only in their subconscious.

I'm not taking it because frankly there's no evidence that it even works, so why bother? As well as no long term testing. (Cancer?).

Flu vaccinations ensure there will be new varieties next year so big pharma can sell new vaccines and repeat the cycle.

So I guess I'd consider the anti conspiracy theory if the vaccine could be proven to actually work. It hasn't.

BTW I had my tiger bite vaccine, seems to be working well.


I'm repeating myself but vaccinations cause epidemics, history says so. As long as it's not the version written by the drug cartel.

When this flu comes around again it will be more severe, if it changes enough, there may be another push for another vaccine.
And then... higher virulence and higher death counts. All the while making massive profits.
That's my conspiracy theory based on the history of vaccination.

If their were no mass vaccinations it most likely would fade away into something even more benign. It's less lethal everyone says, so why the insanity? It's obvious there is an agenda behind it and I don't think they are out to save anyone.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:31 AM
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I just read this....

Preliminary tests reveal no significant changes in the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 virus based on investigations of samples taken from patients in Ukraine.


Preliminary genetic sequencing shows that the virus is similar to the virus used for production of the pandemic influenza vaccine, reconfirming the vaccine's efficacy at this time.

www.who.int...

No SIGNIFICANT changes? what does that mean exactly? There are SOME changes?
Sequencing shows it's SIMILAR to the vaccine virus? WHAT?
Similar does not mean the same!!!!!!!!!!
I want to know what changed, exactly!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by JJay55
 
JJay, do you have good reason to trust this info that you have on the 'Yellow Fever' transfer?



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by squiz
 


true. but imagine that NWO created this situation on purpose. that WHO raised pandemic alert level to 6 just that people would say WTF and only those that obey NWO blindly would want the vaccine. after all, if they're planning depopulation, that's the group they would want to survive, right? add false-flags like moshe and baxter stories to this... and you have most of the society not willing to take the vaccine at all costs... and as a result, possibly being exposed to new H1N1 strain from ukraine.



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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Be interesting to see who comes out with the vaccines for this new killer disease,
and how quickly the vaccine becomes available,

and when the request for the patent to market the vaccine was applied for,

and by whom/ which pharmaceutical company has already developed the vaccine???

More than likely they're are waiting until the fear of the disease is more widespread globally and then they can hold back on releasing a vaccine and then charge thousands more dollars than they otherwise would have.

Has it got anything to do with the FEMA Camps/ Black Plastic Coffins yet?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com... ch#1008



posted on Nov, 17 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by sickofitall2012
 


probably very small changes that they're hiding to avoid panic. it's proven that only small changes are needed to change original H1N1 from mexico into deadly virus like the one in ukraine, causing pneumonia and death with lungs full of blood. exactly same strain was behind 1918 swine flu pandemic. it's all H1N1, nothing else. (recently first cases of death appeared in poland. they were confirmed to be H1N1, they all died from pneumonia.)



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