To all the Flat-Earthers.

Common sense in prehistoric times would dictate that if the world were round you would fall off. Someone might notice earths shadow on the moon and decide the earth was a flat disk, but unless they climbed a mountain and scanned the horizon there would be no need for a round earth explanation.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Daisy-Lola

 

The ancient Greek mathematician Eratosthenes (276 BC– 195 BC) theorised the world was round and got pretty close to the correct distance around the equator.

If despite his calculation from over 2000 years didnt prove anything to them, well more fool them!

Ok, but have you ever performed those calculations? How is reading in a book that some dead guy allegedly proved something by some method you can't personally reproduce any different than simply reading that something is supposedly true?

Many of the things we believe, we simply take on faith. The world might be round, dinosaurs may have existed, but the mechanism by which we come to believe these things is not rational thought or personal observation.

We simply believe these things because we've been told they're true.

The steps for 'some dead guys' calculations are very straight forward.
The basics are measuring the angle of the sun at its height at 3 separate locations on a specific day (a sufficient but known distance apart), then working the angles from there
It is actually quite basic geometry, and to recreate this experiment would require 2 more people to measure the angle at the same moment on a North/South location

Eratosthenes knew that on the summer solstice at local noon on the Tropic of Cancer, the Sun would appear at the zenith, directly overhead - though Syene was in fact slightly north of the tropic. He also knew, from measurement, that in his hometown of Alexandria, the angle of elevation of the Sun would be 7° south of the zenith at the same time. Assuming that Alexandria was due north of Syene - Alexandria is in fact on a more westerly longitude - he concluded that the distance from Alexandria to Syene must be 7/360 of the total circumference of the Earth. The distance between the cities was known from caravan travellings to be about 5,000 stadia (1 stadion=148.5 m). He established a final value of 700 stadia per degree, which implies a circumference of 252,000 stadia. The exact size of the stadion he used is no longer known (the common Attic stadion was about 185 m), but it is generally believed that Eratosthenes' value corresponds to between 39,690 km and 46,620 km. The circumference of the Earth around the poles is now measured at around 40,008 km. Eratosthenes result is not bad at all

Source

I have no doubt in believing in that the experiment works. The maths require no understanding of advanced mathematics
You have the steps to recreate it
You have the basic maths
I'm taking it on hope that you know how to measure angles.
If you wish to recreate it to prove it false, please, enjoy!

Actually the earth is a compact disc shaped planet.

The flat earthers ar wrong as are the globers.

If you walk to the centre of the earth thats when you fall through it, not the edge.

I am completely 100% speaking the absolute non-truth.

I am tired of labels on this site these days though.

reply to post by Daisy-Lola

The steps for 'some dead guys' calculations are very straight forward.

That's all well and good, but have you done them?

No?

Then you're simply accepting on faith something you've read.

I have no doubt in believing in that the experiment works.

Translation: you've never done it, but you have faith that it works.

WHY do you have faith in something you've never done, never seen demonstrated, and have no direct evidence of? WHY is beleiving that the world is spherical based solely on what you've read and what you've been told any different than someone believing they'll be given virgins in heaven for blowing up infidels?

The only difference is that faith in a spherical earth fits more comfortably with your belief systems than faith in houri.

I'm not suggesting that you need to rush out and start taking measurements. That's not the point. I have no interest in trying to convince you the earth is or is not flat. I do have interest in getting people to examine why they believe the things they do.

Why do you believe the earth is spherical?

Why do you accept on faith what you've been told?

reply to post by LordBucket


I've seen the calculations, they are solid.
If I wish to perform the experiment for myself, I can do
I understand what your trying to say, but at some point you have to accept things.

I personally have not:

• dropped a bowling ball and a feather to see which would land first
  
• checked wood to see if its magnetic
  
• tried to find out if an egg floats in salt water
  
• hitting my face with a hammer to see if it really does hurt
  

That's only some of the experiments that I know the results of, without having to recreate.

Why accept? I have a limited time on this Earth, I have better things to do than recreate experiments that I know the results of.
You want to check everything, then you must have a lot of free time.

LordBucket is right. There is no direct evidence (i.e. FIRST HAND evidence) that the earth is round. or of the many many things we take for granted as 'common sense'. Is it common sense really, to believe that the earth is round? I don't think so. Common sense is knowing that if you take a step forward, you will be a step more forward than you were before you took the step forward. That is something basically everyone will approve of (next thing you know people will be saying, actually no its the earth that moves back when i take a step forward but thats for another day). Thinking the earth is round is scientific sense. It makes perfect sense when you think about it but it is not something that you are born knowing. If nobody ever showed you hubble pictures, nobody ever taught you the earth is round, you would not probably even register the shape of the earth in your brain, thus it is not common sense - so stop parading it as if everyone ought to know the earth is round!

I have witnessed a lunar eclipse and observed the shadow of the earth cast upon the moon. The shadow was round and not flat.

I actually had this conversation in real life with an old neighbor. He said the earth was flat and quoted from the bible mentioning the four corners of the Earth. This man did not believe in unicorns though.

Originally posted by Sacrosanct
LordBucket is right. There is no direct evidence (i.e. FIRST HAND evidence) that the earth is round.

...apart from trips you can take around the world.
Somehow I don't remember seeing the edge of the Earth, otherwise I would have taken a few pictures, and no doubt there would have been at least one souvenir shop there to buy a tacky trinket from, but, I do remember seeing the curvature of the Earth from high altitude. This curvature was identical no matter where you flew. The sun rose in the same location, East to West, (let me just check out of the window to verify this)...yes, East to West, even whilst flying so I knew we were not going round in circles.

So there is evidence, you just have to look

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/469f02e452eb.jpg[/atsimg]
Discworld - Great A'Tuin

Even 5000 years ago when people were mostly involved in the daily struggle to stay alive, they probably watched the motion of the sun and the moon. The ancient Egyptians believed giant dung beetles pushed the sun up over the horizon indicating they thought the sun lived below the plain at night.

It would certainly be helpful to know when to plant your crops if you lived where there was winter as the OP alluded to, and you could use the moon to predict when your menstrual cycle might start. Certainly by the time ships were traveling longer distances the use of the stars and position of the sun would have been well understood by some mariners.

Before the printing press was invented the fact that the earth was round would have been just need to know information and 90% of the public would have believed that if the earth was round you would fall off.

Obviously the scientists of the day would have had trouble explaining gravity. If the observers did not live near the coast they might dream up a heliocentric solar system based on universal expansion.

In that case as the earth expanded it would follow an orbit around the sun that spiraled outwards to keep the relative distance constant. The moon would do the same as it expanded and orbited the earth spiraling outward to keep the relative distance between earth and moon constant. Of course you wouldn't need a round earth in a heliocentric solar system to start making accurate predictions about eclipses and other solar and lunar cycles.

Its interesting that by 80 BC the greeks had built the Antikythera mechanism which was a unique Greek geared device that could calculate astronomical cycles. They discovered the inscription "spiral divided into 235 sections" on the device. The original discoverer of the metonic cycle must have been a savant with a slide rule brain function. There are people that can do complex calculations using different number bases in their head but they are rare. People that could do the calculations for the metonic cycle and visualize a heliocentric universe 5000 BC would be even rarer.

Even today gravity is not understood by most scientists, NASA spent over a million dollars to explore gravity shielding equipment! So gravity might be the next flat earth conception that needs clearing up.

reply to post by Daisy-Lola

Why accept? I have a limited time on this Earth

Ok. Everyone is entitled to make their own choices. But next time you hear about somebody strapping on explosives and blowing themselves up, don't ask why they did it.

You already know why, and you've approved of the thought process they used to decide it was a good idea.

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by Daisy-Lola

 

Why accept? I have a limited time on this Earth

Ok. Everyone is entitled to make their own choices. But next time you hear about somebody strapping on explosives and blowing themselves up, don't ask why they did it.

You already know why, and you've approved of the thought process they used to decide it was a good idea.

What the hell has that got to do with the theory of a flat Earth????

Stick to the topic or start your own somewhere else


[edit on 20/10/09 by Daisy-Lola]

reply to post by LordBucket


I think it has something to do with shared schizophrenia. Its almost like they know ahead of time how you will react. Before death if they show signs of seizure activity or they display Terets syndrome behavior by involuntarily barking words like DOH! you are usually dealing with some Klingon DNA. The autopsy results will tell.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
I started it thread about what makes people believe the world is round. Obviouslu we all know the world is round, but it hasn't always been the case, some people were locked up as mad for suggesting such a thing. My thread was to look at how we come to scientific truth's over fanciful myths like creationism.

Comparing flat-earthers with Creationists is like comparing straightjackets with suit-and-tie.