IMO The divine being wants you to believe because He is real, now take it how you want, but the bible has been altered, and He isn't banking on you believing man's word, He is banking on you believing in His son, and If not, then there is nothing saying you will be condemned to hell for just not believing in Jesus, Jesus is there for a way for your sins to be forgiven, and at that time, you can choose to accept or deny that forgiveness. In the same breath I will say, He probably strongly dislikes many preachers and such for their self righteous profiteering in the name of the Lord...

The Bible says that the Jews lived by the law and they were persecuted by it, by having faith in Christ the apostles were liberated by the law as faith was the new law, this faith could be inherited by all, we all become the seed of Abraham. Christ covered the sins and set us free from bondage and old rituals.

Now the problem is that there are all these denominations, at the end of the day you should read what the Bible says it self rather than follow a name tag that puts another word in front of Christianity.

But now people say faith is a conspiracy, all Christian faith asks for is a simple belief in Christ, of course there are morals that go with it but they won't harm you if you start to take some of them up. You have to ask, what is stopping you from taking that step, what is eating away at you that makes it hard to have that little commitment?







[edit on 15-10-2009 by The time lord]

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (King James Version)

28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

So God makes the rape victim(s) marry their attackers...

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (King James Version)

23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

The girl, that was raped, should be killed too because she didn't cry for help?

Verses like these...what do you have to say to them? I'm curious. The God in the old testament is the same God in the new testament. He's pretty messed up in the old testament it seems...

The point is that we are stuck in this not so perfect environment, it is not perfect and we have death and endless other troubles. The Bible events especially with Christ, brought a new order to society and the nations, there was no more tribal rituals that killed people for asking nature to bring rains or forgiveness, there was no more need to sacrifice animals, all this 2000 years ago became outdated, a new era was born.
Out of Christianity, men and women were united, democracy and tolerance was made official, hope for an afterlife and salvation not only for the Jews but for all of man was established. A new hope and a way out of tribal separated society where all is accepted but people had goals of spreading the news of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It is a balance for society and individuals, it is not overall strict, it is not Sharia Law of Jewish law or communism or dictatorship, it is a fair law in Christianity because to be too free it is freedom to kill, but to stay in its boundaries we are contained in a safety net.

This is why places like the UK and USA will crumble to extremism once it fails to keep it's Christian foundation alive, society will be a warzone, pure democracy without religion can only contain itself so far, if the believers believe no more there would be no more spirit left to hold back the extremist thinkers who will try and take over a system that is like putty and can be changed to their own image, the freedom to end freedoms will be in its place, uphold the Bible and they will scatter.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by The time lord]

Originally posted by The time lord
The point is that we are stuck in this not so perfect environment, it is not perfect and we have death and endless other troubles. The Bible events especially with Christ, brought a new order to society and the nations, there was no more tribal rituals that killed people for asking nature to bring rains or forgiveness, there was no more need to sacrifice animals, all this 2000 years ago became outdated, a new era was born.
Out of Christianity, men and women were united, democracy and tolerance was made official, hope for an afterlife and salvation not only for the Jews but for all of man was established. A new hope and a way out of tribal separated society where all is accepted but people had goals of spreading the news of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.

It is a balance for society and individuals, it is not overall strict, it is not Sharia Law of Jewish law or communism or dictatorship, it is a fair law in Christianity because to be too free it is freedom to kill, but to stay in its boundaries we are contained in a safety net.

This is why places like the UK and USA will crumble to extremism once it fails to keep it's Christian foundation alive, society will be a warzone, pure democracy without religion can only contain itself so far, if the believers believe no more there would be no more spirit left to hold back the extremist thinkers who will try and take over a system that is like putty and can be changed to their own image, the freedom to end freedoms will be in its place, uphold the Bible and they will scatter.


[edit on 16-10-2009 by The time lord]

This environment is not meant to be perfect, God made it like that for a reason. It gives us catalyst and natures to discern from.

You follow a book that leads the world in 'separate people' and 'separate lands'. People like to forget the OT and the nature of God back then....because the NT makes up for all of that wrathful nature. But you still base your belief that comes from a God that demanded man to kill and spill blood (Earthly practices) for Thee. I just ask, what is different about that nature from the Satan many book believers talk of? If God is jealous, angry, testing with temptations....instructs killings....then what is the nature of this Satan?

Are you saying that without religion we cant make or hold rules and laws? You should get out and meet more people I guess....I know many humbled souls that arent worried about any books, but they worry about doing right and doing for others while their here. They dont follow a book, they follow the feeling of 'what is right'. Through discerning the environment and feeling one has after experiences of certain situations, one learns what feels right and wrong. We can learn everything we need to with just paying attention and being more in tune with our surroundings, the things God placed here for our senses to perceive and learn from.

The world is getting ready to fight a war that is not spiritual but very very Earthly. Blood will spill...it will be horrid and dark. It will be because everyone fears that if Israel is not protected, being the Holy Land that it is, that they will be on Gods wrong side.....

The stage has been made for still the largest blood sacrifice to yet still come. The blood sacrifices are not over, the Elite have just made you think they are. Blood sacrifices are of a very dark nature and it is misleading many people from continuing in seeking and growing.

Just because you arent sacrificing an animal today...you still cover yourself in blood through the final sacrifice, do you not? So is the blood not on your hands by believing God had to have this happen this way?

What if its all misunderstood...that Jesus was a Jew who saw his people walking in Earthly ways and not Spiritual ways....what if he did not support any blood sacrifices and this is why he got angry at the temple and why it seems he didnt eat of the passover meal but yet used the idea of 'eating a body' as a symbolic of 'taking life' (eternal life is through understanding) gaining wisdom....what if the Elite twisted a humble mans words to make him something he was not....what if Jesus ONLY 'offered' his life because it is the only righteous thing to do sense he taught one must turn the other cheek and not fight for the life of flesh? What if Jesus's life and death are justified all due to what Jesus found to be a 'truth' of walking a certain 'path' of humble living and living for spirit and not flesh. What if this is the entire reason he offered to die was to show us how to walk a humble path also.....not a Earthly path that is full of blood, an Earthly material, that is of flesh. What if its ALLL about actions and behaviors, learning to be right and do right.....more so then just 'believing'?

No one is trying to answer 'what sense dose it make' for God to have to come to us through a book that offers us a certain 'belief' to bank our soul on.....

Seriously, where is the logic....? Did God really just expect us to just 'see the light' in these practices that were already existent in other beliefs?

I am not saying there is no truth or things to learn from any book.....I love books and would rather read a book any day then go screw off my time for a day. I LOVE to read and learn....feel a little geeky sometimes, I love it so much.

But I just dont feel the Spirit guiding me through books, it seems to guide through life itself....experiences, feelings, thoughts, behaviors....also nature, the power of the winds, waters, fire....storms....space....energy. Sure I learned about history from the Bible and I learned how to find the Holy Spirit of Life.....but ya know what....that Holy Spirit was not IN the book, the book just showed me how to connect to Thee by seeking humbly through all 'life', the things that can not rust nor be destroyed.

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Its just that simple.

What if I am putting my faith into the wrong hands?

Thoughts?

Well are you worried about getting it wrong? Like let's say you did believe in Jesus, but he wasn't real and you got it wrong. Are you afraid of that? What are you afraid might happen if you did believe in Jesus, but he didn't really exist and you got it wrong?

Now I'll also wait for you to answer back with what you think some of the consequences might be, but usually when people answer me I get a hypothetical from my friends because many of my friends that debate me on religious topics are atheists so they're not really afraid of anything because they don't believe there is a Heaven or Hell anyway regardless of what they believe. So they're not really "afraid", but they will give this hypothetical argument sometimes like what they might be afraid of if they did believe.

That if they believe in Jesus, what if some other religion was the correct religion? How do you know that the other religion wasn't the correct religion and how to do know that you won't be punished for believing in Jesus?

Well I don't know. Obviously there is no way to know for sure if you got it right. So, the question is how is that fair to punish someone for that?

Well if you think about it, if that was the case, then that means every other religion works just like Christianity does too. If you don't believe in it you go to Hell. That makes all the other religious just as unfair.

Because if you believe you'll go to Hell if you believe in Jesus and you got it wrong because you didn't believe in the "correct" religion, that means whatever religion did turn out to be the "correct" one worked exactly the same as Christianity does. You had to believe in it or you'd go to Hell.

So, if it's fair or not doesn't really tell us if it is the correct religion. Whatever the correct religion was, would be just as unfair because you'd have to believe in it. That's just how religions work and it isn't just Christianity that works that way. They all work that way and that's why a person may be afraid of getting it wrong.

However, let's say there was a fair religion that wouldn't punish you for getting it wrong right? Well then, it isn't really going to hurt you to believe in Jesus anyway. Because even if you were wrong, whatever the correct religion was would still let you into their afterlife anyway because they understand that you got it wrong.

So, if your argument is that the "correct" religion wouldn't judge you unfairly for getting it wrong then you have nothing to worry about. Go ahead and believe in Jesus or whatever God one wants to believe in because even if you get it wrong it doesn't matter. The correct religion will be understanding of that and let you in anyway and they'll just say hey, you got it kinda wrong, but it's no big deal. Honest mistake.

However, if one fears that they'll worship Jesus and get it wrong and be punished for that because Jesus wasn't real, then you have to ask, how is the "correct" religion anymore fair than Christianity was? And if wasn't any more fair then why worship that religion over Christianity based on a fairness argument? Correct or not the alternative isn't fair either. They both send you to Hell if you get it wrong.

The only thing you have to worry about is if Jesus was real and how fair you think the religion is or isn't really won't tell you anything.

Now, why does Jesus want you to believe in him? Well, there's lots of theories to that, but the consensus is that Jesus wants you to do certain things. Like love, forgive, and help people and stuff to get into Heaven.

Some of the things Jesus says to do you might not want to do. However, if you believe in him you're more likely to take the things he said seriously. Our mental can affect our actions many times.

For example if I think it is okay to hit women I am more likely to hit a women. If I think it is not okay to hit women then I will probably not hit any women. What you believe is very important to how you will act. If I think Jesus was real, I am more likely to do the things Jesus told me to do.

Some of the things Jesus told me to do I might not want to do, like forgive a certain person or wait until marriage to have sex or whatever. Sometimes a person needs all the motivation they get. The more you believe that Jesus was real and not just a story the more likely one is to take that advice seriously and do the things that are required of them.

Not doing those things can theoretically lead to a life of sin and distancing oneself from God and such things that may keep you from going to Heaven.

There are other reasons too, like getting over the sin of pride so one doesn't worship themselves instead of God like they're supposed to. Like you're so afraid of being wrong because you'll look stupid you're more worried about how stupid you might look because you believe in Jesus instead of just doing what God wants you to do and things like that. You get hung up worrying about yourself too much and not the people you're supposed to be helping.

But these are just theories. Religious people have many theories on the topic, but who knows if any of them are right. Some of them are just as simple as because Jesus told you to and no other reason than that.

But that's something you'll have to choose to believe or not. One can take it on faith, but you can't really know. I don't know if those things are right. Those are just some of the theories that have been brought up to me over the years.
[edit on 16-10-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 16-10-2009 by tinfoilman]