Conspiracy in salvation through belief!

Its just that simple.

What sence does it make for us to be judge on a belief?

What sence does it make for God to need us to believe something we dont know for sure?

What sense does it make that if we dont have faith in something that we cant see...that we will be judged?

Has the words 'you must have faith' and 'you must believe in me' turned into a conspiracy for the churches, priests, and followers to become full of themselves all due to a 'belief'?

Even though I might feel that Jesus did exists, or that God is something real....is God really expecting me to bank my soul on another man's words in a book that brought about churches, power, greed, and pride?

Surely, a Divine Supreme One would not hold it against me for second guessing my fellow mans words.

Really...what good does it do for my soul and me becoming a righteous being if I just have 'faith'. What if I am putting my faith into the wrong hands? Do followers ask themselves these questions...or do they just follow because they figure the majority has it right?

Thoughts?

What sense does it make that if we dont have faith in something that we cant see...that we will be judged?

According to scriptures, everyone is judged. Some are judged now, the rest later.

Has the words 'you must have faith' and 'you must believe in me' turned into a conspiracy for the churches, priests, and followers to become full of themselves all due to a 'belief'?

Yes.

Because they dont know what they believe. Only God knows how many denominations there are. But they sure are convinced that they are right and all the others are wrong. Some even consign entire "christian" belief systems to be tortured for endless ages in real fire in a place they call "hell".
For those that aren't "christians", I guess there is something even worse than that for them...

Even though I might feel that Jesus did exists, or that God is something real....is God really expecting me to bank my soul on another man's words in a book that brought about churches, power, greed, and pride?

You can add "murder, torture and theft" to that list.

This is why it's written that

Luke 18:8
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily *. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

That word "when" is:

www.apostolic-churches.net...
687 // ara // ara // ar'-ah //

a form of 686 , denoting an interrogation to which a negative
answer is presumed; part

AV - therefore 1, not tr 2; 3

1) a Greek interrogative particle that implies anxiety or
impatience on the part of the questioner

But if you listen to churchianity, then things are just great. 2 billion followers strong. Yeah, right.


[edit on 15/10/09 by PSUSA]

Just for safe noting...this isnt bashing a belief in others. I just hope that others are scrutinizing what they are 'following' in.

Do you test your belief somehow?

Is that testing through still yet what another man has told you?

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Right. It does not make any sense.

It is like me trying to tell you to believe in pink unicorns or else suffer.

What sence does it make for God to need us to believe something we dont know for sure?

Right. If this particular god exist, he would understand. After all, he created us with brains.

Has the words 'you must have faith' and 'you must believe in me' turned into a conspiracy for the churches, priests, and followers to become full of themselves all due to a 'belief'?

That's the conspiracy! Fear is one of their tools.

Surely, a Divine Supreme One would not hold it against me for second guessing my fellow mans words.

Now we are getting to the bottom of it.

reply to post by PSUSA




A book that tells you to not use your own reasoning as well.

A book that I look at very differently now, but still use and learn from.

This is not about only one religion. Any religion that banks your soul on believing in something you cant see, faith in a former mans words, and that without those words, that knowledge, you wouldnt find God ect...

I bring these thoughts to any religion that is holding a book as a word of God and that word says you must 'believe'.

Now we are getting to the bottom of it.

I would like to see this really start to happen...in this life time I do hope.

reply to post by LeoVirgo


How does anyone make sense of this scenario then because this was my life but imagine this scenario for a second here in my shoes.

13 months ago you found yourself unemployed after the business you worked for went bust, gradually you were unable to pay your utility bills, mortgage, insurances and even struggled to buy food.

Cutting a long story short here but you find God after reflecting on your life and thats quite a long story on its own.

Your sitting in the house one day with people banging on your door saying that he wants money for your mortgage, you get letters in the mail summoning you to court for a reposession hearing, locksmiths break into your house when you are out and change your electrcity meters etc so that you have to put money into them that you cannot afford if you want heat.
Your car breaks down so you are unable to travel and have no cash to buy parts, your phone gets cut off and your mobile phone is disconnected so you cannot communicate with anyone that doesnt live nearby. Your whole world literally comes crashing down on you and you are helpless to do anything about it.

You sit down one day with tears in your eyes in panic and pray from your heart for God to help you as you are stuck with even basics such as food.

The very next day a relative you have not spoken to for a while sends the last of the things you had left in their attic over to you that includes a fishing rod. You use that for food and catch enough to last you over a week.

You get a call from your bank about excessive charges which leads to them being reversed, that allows you to reconnect your phone and pay for food and heating etc at first.

You recieve an email from someone you have not spoken to in ages about informaton on unfair terms in consumer contracts in particular secured loans on your home, later you get the loan written off 17k in total and your home is safe from repossession.

You get a phone call offering you an interview completely out of the blue from someone that saw your old CV, you get the job.

A family member buys you a used car for the job after seeing you struggling trying to repair your current one.

In short 13 months down the line all your prayers that day were answered.

How can I ever say that God does not exist?

I am not saying that God will fix all of your life, I needed help and I had tried my best to help myself otherwise I would have never asked. If I did not need it I doubt I would have got the help I did.

I just thought that this might be worth mentioning because it is the least I can do, people can answer what they think but it is up to you to make that choice and ask for yourself. If you cannot make that step then you will never know until its too late but if you do, you will know exactly why you have put your faith in the correct place.

Ive never went into detail about this before and I wont again because it is something that is very close to my heart and I dont bear that to many people even if this is an anonymous board if that makes sense.

Cheers



[edit on 15-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by LeoVirgo


Hit the nail in the head with this post...

These are some of the same things I asked when I was 12 or 13 and I haven't turned back since.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Thanks for sharing...

I have my own reasons also, for what I believe, what I feel is 'God'. Those are the stories I love the most...its the ones that follow another man, that worry me.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

I would like to see this really start to happen...in this life time I do hope.

They keyword is FEAR.

reply to post by doped00


That was about the same age I asked my pastor, about all sorts of things. It is the age my son now, is asking about his doubts and thoughts. I followed in the Christian way till I was about 30. So I ask others this, in the knowing that I followed a book for most of my life.

Something struck me a few years back, reminded me of things that happened through life. It took me a few years to twist out of the 'belief' I was raised in.

reply to post by XXXN3O


I have a theory that could explain your situation.

There very well could be a god or a great creator, but he or she doesn't care what religion you follow as long as your intent is good. You could be a christian and it may seem your prayers are answered because your intent is good. A muslim may seem to have his prayers answered too because his intent is also good.

I could elaborate more, but I think you get the point.

The above is just a thought I had.

reply to post by doped00

There very well could be a god or a great creator, but he or she doesn't care what religion you follow as long as your intent is good. You could be a christian and it may seem your prayers are answered because your intent is good. A muslim may seem to have his prayers answered too because his intent is also good.

Or it just could be that the universe will give us all we need if we really want them. The Law of Attraction comes to work.

Basically, anything is possible.

How could a christian god hold us accountable for believing different things?

Originally posted by doped00
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

I have a theory that could explain your situation.

There very well could be a god or a great creator, but he or she doesn't care what religion you follow as long as your intent is good. You could be a christian and it may seem your prayers are answered because your intent is good. A muslim may seem to have his prayers answered too because his intent is also good.

I could elaborate more, but I think you get the point.

The above is just a thought I had.

Im not going to say your wrong here or that your right.

All I am saying is that anytime I pray I get answered through situations, people unaware of it or something completely unexpected.

I accepted christ into my life and my life was never like that until I did.

I would be silly not to mention what I just did above ,if that makes sense, because its the truth of whats happened to me in my life. I have also faced a lot of unexpected trials but I know if I stick through them I will get there.

Im not someone who does not think things through either but when you have a lot of coincidences going on there does come a time in life when you need to think is this just coincidence or is someone trying to tell me something.

reply to post by LeoVirgo

Really...what good does it do for my soul and me becoming a righteous being if I just have 'faith'. What if I am putting my faith into the wrong hands? Do followers ask themselves these questions...or do they just follow because they figure the majority has it right?

I'll be the first to flag and star your thread cause it's a good topic.

It's a old topic but with a fresh perspective.

Several children were born into different cultures and religious beliefs. They all died at early age. Are the Christians telling me that ONLY ONE child is to go to heaven? I have heard all solutions. But basically they could not find ANY scripture to support babies and children going to heaven automatically. They say "oooh they have to go past specific age"... well then where? Some obscure verse?

I say this:

EPIC FAIL

I'm not bashing christianity with this post, just merely saying somethings.

Ever since I was 14 and I "unaccepted" christ into my life I feel like I've thrown a weight off my shoulder.

I no longer feel guilty about Adam and Eve's sin. I mean, why should I be guilty because of them? I wasn't even alive then.

I no longer feel sinful, (such a dirty and negative word), I realize I make mistakes and I learn from them. I don't need "saved".

The fact that there are bible verses where God orders the killing of people and/or just kills them himself. Even verses where God approves of rape. (Zechariah 14:1-2)

If your kid makes a mistake, do you punish him forever? I hope not, so why send someone to suffer eternally in a pit of fire.

I think love should be the universal "religion".

These are but a few reasons why I turned away from the book called the bible.

Again, I don't care what other people believe in, as long as they respect my views and vice versa.

There are some good things in the bible! Like...

Love your neighbor as yourself. etc.

So I say let's pick out the good and leave the bad.

reply to post by doped00

I no longer feel guilty about Adam and Eve's sin. I mean, why should I be guilty because of them? I wasn't even alive then. I no longer feel sinful, (such a dirty and negative word), I realize I make mistakes and I learn from them. I don't need "saved".

Exactly. You weren't there. None of us were there.

I ask this question to Christians all the time.

"Well, you inherited sin"

"Well, you would have ate the apple"

etc, etc. all that B.S.

They all basically said that we would have sinned anyway.

Imagine the chaos we have in courtrooms today. Oh, and don't forget about the movie Minority Report.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Deaf Alien]

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
Just for safe noting...this isnt bashing a belief in others. I just hope that others are scrutinizing what they are 'following' in.

Do you test your belief somehow?

Is that testing through still yet what another man has told you?

I know you aren't bashing anyone.

Do I test my beliefs? Yes. That wont end until we die. But I do know enough to know I am on safe ground, where I wasn't before.

Based on what another man told me? In a way, yes. He was the first I found that explained it to where it makes sense. It made no sense before. But I don't follow him.

I didn't throw out the baby with the bath water as so many do. If it doesn't make sense, then it's probably wrong. Go out and find the answers. Or not, it's up to what it is you're called to do.

reply to post by PSUSA

Based on what another man told me? In a way, yes. He was the first I found that explained it to where it makes sense. It made no sense before. But I don't follow him.

See that's good. That's rare.

Watch any church shows on tv and you'll see how many people there are. And that's just a small percentage.