Originally posted by atlscribe
I've been in gifted classes since I was 7, took the SAT's with a respectable score at 13, as well as advanced placement courses throughout HS. I'm also a member of several High IQ societies. May be these scientists need to tell me what race I truly am, because as far as I am aware, I'm black.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by atlscribe]

seems we're some deviation in thier agenda *cough* study.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I wonder (assuming this is true, peer reviewed, etc) if its from genetic or environmental development.

Considering Africa for the most part of history was about physical superiority for survival and europe developed as more intellectual survival tactics over generations may answer why a african man is physically superior to a white man (averaging out here, there are exceptions all over the place).

Also, once it is reasonably understood without passion, the next question is, will it correct itself in a couple generations or should optional gene therapy be introduced.
Physical prowess in our species is no longer a absolute necessity for survival but mental prowess is and such therapys should be talked about...not just for any race but also in general for all of the population.

I know a few black men, and 2 of them are idiots, but the 3rd one is very gifted. The difference is the 2 grew up in urban roughness, etc...the 3rd came from a rough area but went to university and made something of himself...so, I dont believe there is a cap to how intellectual they are, however I am inclined to believe that their overall average intellectual growth has been stunted simply from environmental aspects.

Also, the tests are skewed. pretend you had a slave race that was in every real measure, kept down...then one day you free them, make them equal, and then a few years later wonder why this former slave race seems more ignorant about society than the comparison race...

So, nature and nurture both have been hammered a bit and so it is reasonable to assume that the average black man compared to the average white man for now is less. (but again, a genius black man and a genius white man are pretty damn equal)

Bah, difficult discussion but will toss a flag at it for bring it up for a reasonable discussion

(I would like for every race to score out like asians frankly...gene therapy...pills...whatever)

please tell me how ANY human can out run a jaguar? Without our tools and team strategy and planning we would have starved long ago.
Are ANY humans stronger than a bear? Faster than a wolve or bigger than an elephant,hippo,lion,tiger, horse etc. No. We are...
- VERY VERY slow mobility
- VERY VERY physically weak(a tiger or wolf would kill you no problem because of that)
- can't climb trees worth crap compared to a lot of animals
- can swim very fast or deep
- can't fly
- can't jump that high
- can't smell that good
- can't defend agianst attack that good
- can't hear as good as a lot of animals
- defenseless against poisons(buit because of our planning and records we knew what animals,berries,bugs,plants not to eat or avoid all together)
- can't attack that well

-we can plan
-we can strategize (like with a team in hunting)
-we can negotiate with other humans to deter conflicts
-we can trade with other humans
-we can archive and make records either verbally or physically
-we can make tools
-we know how to use said tools(like cars,guns,and medicine)
-we can medicate ourselves(not talking about pot)
-we can talk and communicate on a verbal level
-we can remember events and use the memories to help us
-we can pilot giant robots


You see most of the changes happened back in the neolithic period when we were starving to death all the time. Either you were smart or yiou were dead. Now factor in otther humans that are competing for resourses with you.

Our bodies still think we are in 12000 bc. We get fat because our bodies are not used to all the high fructose corn syrup and cane sugar we are ingesting on a daily basis. I guess our genes are foodist against the mcdonalds corperation. I don't know.


This neo-snotzi Social darwinism crap is another attempt to con the unknowing into believing in fallacy and not fact.



[edit on 9-4-2010 by John_Rodger_Cornman]

Originally posted by DChenO
aborigines in huts?

regardless those tests are context based.

one example is a question given to a little southwestern latino kid on an IQ test. how many people live in a 2 bed room house? he says 13 and fails the question.

i've taught kids of all colors, races and from every continent except australia...
and evenly across the board some are hecka brilliant and some aren't.
while the 'past tense' minorities by and large mostly have really hard economic and social environments and that has wiped out the middle achievers. though they are still sharp they are just street wise not work for the man wise...

IQ tests are designed so that it is not context based. You would never get a question like that. Only puzzles and patterns that can be answered using logic and innate reasoning. Nice try though

Well lets draw the comparisons (This is from a personal point of view so you may have to forgive any prejudice views, but i'm willing to live and learn.)

Blacks
Cons: Gangster affiliation, Rap, Poverty
Pros: Birth of the Human race, Technological Advancement, Integration

Whites
Cons: Prejudice, Violence, Capitalism, Domination over cultures
Pros: Aid distribution, Socialism, Technology

So it seems to me that both races can be just as good/bad as each other, there's dumb white people (chavs for example) as there is rappers. Its all about prejudice and how the MSM uses it to promote "fear" tactics.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Has anyone else noticed an increase in studies on IQ tests lately?

'Studies reveal whites are more intelligent than blacks.'

'Studies reveal atheists are more intelligent than theists.'

'Studies reveal [political affiliation] is more intelligent than [political affiliation.' (I've seen both sides for this one).

'Studies reveal males have higher IQ's than females.'

I'm all for examining the human condition and discovering new things even if the answer may be hard to handle. But all these divisive IQ studies of Group A vs. Group B seem to be on the rise.

Yeah it's stupid, it's like they are trying to find more and more reasons to seperate us all.

The reality is, that we all all unique individuals, we are all human, and we are in this together.



[edit on 10-4-2010 by _Phoenix_]

~

Doing a 'scientific' study on why blonds are less intelligent
would have been at least entertaining, unlike the latter 'study'
having no constructive purpose.
The study has many major flaws, for instance . . . did it include
considerations to dietary intake of iodine etc. ?
We all know that those that have higher fish/kelp intake have a
higher mental ability, but this has NOTHING to do with race. I
imagine if you took a inner-city kid who's diet consisted of cheep
take out, then
put him on a some sushi diet you would see some major IQ changes.
It is however a well known fact that diabetes also targets certain
groups due to cultural eating habits.
This is NOT to do with race.
I imagine if David Suzuki had nothing but processed
junk food to eat for a yr., a low iodine level, and lots of pork,
I would guarantee that you would see a drop in IQ.

This flawed study should not be given air time.

While it is a bone headed move to air a show like this, we should note the thread we have here is one of our many problems in the world. Political correctness. I myself have seen no difference in the races that couldn't be explained by lifestyle. American's are fatter than the French and every other country for that matter. This is simply because we eat fast food and vegetate for long hours. Asians are generally smarter than Americans. This could be explained by parenting habits. This thread should note though that we as humans are willing to throw away scientific research on the merit of being politically correct. If you don't like this study then it shows that you are against us being labeled as different from one another. I in turn challenge you, the next time you fill out a form, when it asks race put beside "other" human. This is the way it should be. Until we start taking apart these divisions though there is nothing wrong with these studies. There are differences in us or they wouldn't be asking for our race so much. There is something wrong however with airing them.

Originally posted by ziggy1706
Also I would like to add this is pointless research because we all know that humans are idiots. *Me too - at least I'm honest*

LOL muzzleflash! The truth cant be said more proper or organized! I feel and find this sceintist fidning is racist and biased. For a world thats supopsed to be global, people living closer, they sure do always find a wayt o make sure we stay apart, bunch of meathead scientists they are.
So, why is it always whites and blacks? You never hear anything about white scientists saying anyting about eskimos(probably becuase they know an eskimo would outdo them in any survival skills), or a mongolian...im sure ghanges khans warrior genes are in some of those mongoles...outdo any viking warrior anyday..
I feel its biased, becuase for how long, has the system put down african americans? Alot fo african americans resorted to becoming drug dealers, going on welfare, more or less, simply becuase they were rejected jobs* by white owners bosses and the like. It is out thier, working in retail like i do,,its what i call silent discrinimation, kinda like yuor too old for us to hire you excuse* so..they sell too medium to high class white guys, who cosnume the posion, and give the $$$ to the black guy.
Its not meant to be biased, its just the statistics..really, who's the superior races then; )

because thier a closet snotzi...its hatebaiting propaganda.

There are different kinds of smarts. My husband doesn't read very well, yet he can watch a video once on how to build a bathroom and do it. When he was 15, he took out an engine, rebuilt it and put it back without ever working on a car before. Yet if he were to take an IQ test, he would be very normal.

The black people I work with don't know a lot about politics.They don't understand world views and they don't care. But, they have far more street sense then I do, and sniff out people's intentions from a mile away. And they have a very quick wit when it comes to bantering back and forth.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc
If you have lived for more than a decade or two on earth this should be obvious.

Asians are at the top

Whites in the middle

blacks on the bottom

Yup, sounds about right

I guess it sucks being a black person.Especially in a bigoted society.

Originally posted by unicorn1
Well lets not focus on the whites here.
I used to work in Uganda. Most of the businesses were owned by Asians and there were more Asian managers. You could clearly see a difference between the mindset of Ugandan Asians and Ugandan blacks. Whether this was just down to a different way of thinking or innate intelligence I don't know. One thing immediately obvious was that the Asians were more ambitious and more organised. Whereas the black Ugandans tended to live in the moment, for that day. Whatever - in everyday function, it gave the Asians the advantage.
Plus my friends ran a safari business there and they used to actually distinguish between the different black cultures and bring in staff from certain other countries.
Just calling it like it was.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by unicorn1]


[edit on 27-10-2009 by unicorn1]

[edit on 27-10-2009 by unicorn1]

Dude did you just make that up? lol...

I lived in kenya and they sold me a pizza and nacho chips...hmm nahh just bulsh--in ya...

Living in my country (almost all white race people) I can't imagine how black race people could be less intelligent. Honestly.

This type of generalisation is for idiots who after hearing or reading such "researches" now believe that "I am white so I am smarter than any black guy" when the truth maybe the freaking opposite.

And smart ones never judge by the race, head size or whatever. They judge by the deeds. And one person at a time.

Edit: Btw, I worked in foreign country and knew several black guys. They are smarter than most of white people I know also very funny too. Really nice guys. I guess I was lucky heh?

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Pitons]

[edit on 11-4-2010 by Pitons]

Originally posted by OhZone
How about we reverse the question?
Instead of why didn't Africa .......?

Make it, Why did white europeans become inventors, philosophers and explorers?
Why didn't they just keep on with the hunting and gathering lifestyle?

Lets see... I know were you are going but I am going to take the high road and give you the right answer.

-The African Continent-
-Africa didn't have widespread wars with either like the europeans did. So no need to make bigger better killing machines. Before the imperialist european colonialists came to the african continent ages ago they didn't have the large scale wars like the europeans.

-Europeans had the guns. So they had a BIG advantage in warfare. When the africans got guns they overthrew them like almost all the other colonies. Running a would-be empire is expensive and very management demanding. Only reason why slavery work longer here is because the "used commody"/ african slaves were so out numbered by europeans that it was VERY easy to keep that process going. Didn't quite work in Trinidad though...lol

-Africans (and the native americans) had to teach them how to survive on the land without guns,medicine or fresh water or farms.

-Europeans came and divided up the territories putting rival and blood fued tribes together. BIG mistake. most of the civil wars now are because of that.(and christians being killed and enslaved by muslims there)

-Egyptians were black.(present day egypt is smaller and the same people are not there)So there ya go.

-Technology advancements boom in times of war. Because there were no large scale wars they just didn't need it. There was no demand for it.

-Trade was VERY limited to south africa.(pretty much no navigatable rivers and desserts).So new ideas just plain never got there. I mean the germanic tribes were a bunch of hunter gatherers and barbarians(romans called the germanic tribes barbarians and the "black" egyptians and the greeks smart) until the romans "enlightened" them.

-Seeing how trade was limited were are they going to get bulk gunpowder?
or precious metals? Japan had the same problem until westerners came and "enlightened" them with chinese gun powder. Yeah they traded to get the gunpower right?

Originally posted by Fromabove
When I was younger, about 20 years ago, I heard a theory of why IQ may lack in some, and it wasn't race but the shape of the skull cavity that revealed this. I'll break it down as I heard it.

1. A cavity that allows for a pronounced forehead and high crest (top) with a somewhat smaller back shows increased mental awareness, intellect, and deeper thought.

2. A cavity that shows a smaller forehead and crest (top) and smaller back, relating to equal proportions shows a lower IQ, less intellect, and more shallow thought patterns. Such a person becomes easily confused and exhibits a more aggressive attitude. The person tends to follow commands at times without question believing things that are told without thinking it through.

3. A cavity where there is a sloping forehead and high crest (top) and pronounced back show athletic ability and a heightened sense of awareness and agility. The senses are keener sharper than the above two cases. The person will exhibit a low to average IQ, but will not be limited as in the description above in number 2. This person tends to stay to the physical ability attributes and this often compensates for the lack of intellect. Learning is slightly more difficult but not impossible.


For some time I did some observation as to if this had some validity, and this is what I noticed. Athletic achievers tend to be the third case. Criminals tend to be the second case. Scientists tend to be the first case. This goes across the racial spectrum and does not presuppose a racial bias.


Type 1 people:
Albert Einstien
Stephen Hawkins
Jeffry Dalmer
Bill gates
Jim Jones
Barak Obama
Bill Clinton
Sarah Palin
Hillary Clinton
Nancy Pelosi
Bill Cosby
Michelle Obama
Barbara Bush
Vladamir Putin
Tony Blair

Note: You will notice here that there are some murderers and serial killers included. They use their high IQ for the hunt and to gain the ultimate satisfaction of completing the planned outcome. Yet in all cases, these people plan, plot, and execute their plan.

Type 2
Criminals, druggies, Often work low wage jobs doing what they're told. get into fights a lot.

Type 3
Super athletes requiring great agility and stamina where the sport is rigorous and less IQ is needed. Type 1 can be athletes using IQ, such as the Olympics. Cycling, Hockey, Baseball etc.
Race is not a factor in IQ, the shape of your brain cavity is.

[edit on 8-4-2010 by Fromabove]

So I guess reading FAST constantly changing defenses on the fly is not IQ intensive enough? I guess you don't need to be smart to read FAST blitzes,FAST defenses or call plays that actually execute and work in game agianst good teams? No pregame match-up strategy, difficult interpretation calls or mindgames? What about micro-managing egos, playing with crap talent player or have a injury gimped squad. I mean you can be stupid and keep your job the next season right? You won't get cut with the quickness if you don't perform at a tip top level. Were're not going to talk about conditioning and training camp.

People seeming to think that you can be a dumbass or a slob and play high level in any sport. Hell no! The bar is set so high that you have have to be a smart team player physically talented AND consistantly high level. What about other people jocking for your paycheck? What if your a mid tier talent player anyway?You just don't fall out of bed one day and become a elite level athlete and you just don't bulk up or condition for speed and be a lock for a roster spot on the Cavaliers. You'll get eaten alive on defense... for free.

I think this discussion all depends on how emotive you take it.

From a logical point of view I would say man is the same species, but have different inter species breeds. Very similar to dogs.

Now I have worked with dogs before and there is in my opinion a range of intelligences across the species. So in my opinion it "must" be the same for man. I would have thought it impossible for us all to be exactly the same. Especially if we are talking about pure breeds here. ( unbroken lineage )

What race is at what end of the spectrum, and how it should be tested would the the only question.

Note: I am mixed breed, of central European origin and Maori ( who was living a stone aged existence until 150 yrs ago ) I would say mixed breed might be the best mix, but then I would say that wouldn't I ?

And touching on the subject of how it makes people "feel" to hear someone is smarter than them. Well I did badly at school and was obviously not academically smart, which was pointed out to me often. I think the word THICK was used a lot.

I got over it and achieved in other ways.

[edit on 11/19/09 by thedeadtruth]

Mostly what these QVC hate merchants do is get an account on a forum. Make 20 more clone accounts. Post pro-snatzi marketing propaganda. Ignore all opposing views and keep spamming the message board. Mods ban them for spam they ban dodge and come back. Post more hate masterbation ad infinium.

What we need to release(I am black and have been around attention whores that use race and perceived oppression to get attention is they want to get people pissed off at them so they can spew hate back at them til they nut in their pants. They LOVE when you attack them and flame them.So they parrot inflamitory dialog to get people pissed at them they "think" they are fighting the "evil threat" in thier mind. This "holy warrior" mentality is pretty goofy and pathetic.


Even though you put me and other people that challenge your view on ignore answer this. What advange does an african gain by being more athletic than other races if both the predatorys AND prey they hunted were VASTLY more faster and stronger than them?

If your dumber than other races why didn't they starve to death like all the other hominids? Hunting with stone age weapons is not exactly easy then gazelle is WAY more faster and quicker than you. Poisonous berries,larvae etc that could only be eaten at a certien time or must be detoxified before consumption.
Farming and agriculture first created by people of the african continent was not easy either. It only rains in the rainy season and rivers flood at certain times too. What do you plant? How do you time it? When to harvest?

What happens when you have to negotiate with rival tribes and in tribal warfare? Dumb people don't make good diplomats people.



[edit on 12-4-2010 by John_Rodger_Cornman]