AP Headline from 2004? "Kenyan-born Obama"

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Are you a big Richard Nixon fan too?

Nixon's accomplishments while in office included: ERA (Equal Rights Ammendment), ending segregation, revenue sharing, ending the draft, new anticrime laws, started the process of ending the Cold War, recognized and fought against foreign oil price gouging, and implemented a broad environmental program (he is largely responsible for the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency). He was the only President to achieve a balanced national budget between 1961 and 1998.

Some of his most acclaimed achievements came in his quest for world stability. During visits in 1972 to Beijing and Moscow, he reduced tensions with China and the U.S.S.R. His summit meetings with Russian leader Leonid I. Brezhnev produced a treaty to limit strategic nuclear weapons. In January 1973, he announced an accord with North Viet Nam to end American involvement in Indochina. In 1974, his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, negotiated disengagement agreements between Israel and its opponents, Egypt and Syria.

wiki.answers.com...

Except for that Watergate thing, Nixon was pretty cool. (for a Republican)

Did you really want to go there? This can't be good.

reply to post by Hemisphere


Hey I didn't start it.

reply to post by whatukno

no, daddy is still Kenyan, but believe whatever you want. I don't really care. If your going to be THAT disingenuous, there is no one in the world that can help you.

See momma was American, married to a Kenyan. However your argument is so shallow and pedantic it's an epic fail.

Actually, you have no idea who his momma was, or if she was married to a Kenyan, or even who daddy really was. All you have is what you have been told by officials and a certification that proves he was born and that original records are on file. Your faith in the system is touching but utterly sad and dangerous at the same time. He could be adopted from almost anywhere and be the offspring of almost anyone.
I think when you spring your insults it is a sign of frustration and also projection.

reply to post by oneclickaway


Oh great! Now we can't even trust that momma was from Kansas

really?

It must be scary to be that paranoid. Can you be sure YOU weren't born in Kenya? After all you can't trust any one.

reply to post by whatukno

He could spend his money on Mexican midget wrestling for all anyone should care. There is no proof that Obama has spent any tax payer money on his defense fees.

Like I said before, it's not like he was poor when he went into office.

Yes, he is spending taxpayer’s money. There is absolute proof in the latest case in California. Look it up as you are the only one who does ‘true research.’
If he was found not to be spending taxpayer’s money in all the other 25 or so cases, then that would actually warrant an investigation about how he came to have millions in spare cash to defend something that would need no defending if he was legally eligible.
Why was he not poor before he went into office? What post did he hold that would have accumulated such riches?
From the mouth of michelle obama;

Now when was the last time you've seen a presidential candidate for President of the United States that is just a few years out of student debt?.

"You're looking at a young couple that's just a few years out of debt," Obama said. "See, because, we went to those good schools, and we didn't have trust funds.

"The salaries don't keep up with the cost of paying off the debt, so you're in your 40s, still paying off your debt at a time when you have to save for your kids."

www.nevilleawards.com...

Uh huh…Not that any of that is true. But if they are going to assert lies, then they have to live by those lies. So, just out of debt but have amassed millions in spare cash?

reply to post by whatukno

It must be scary to be that paranoid. Can you be sure YOU weren't born in Kenya? After all you can't trust any one.

I think that may be where you are going wrong. It is not about trust, or blind trust of what any official tells you. It is about the truth.

reply to post by oneclickaway


I would believe you if it was just one official, or several from one political party. But here we have several people from different political parties all saying the same thing. Makes me think it just might be true. Of course I could just be that gullible too.

Of course then again, you could just be paranoid and sleep with a loaded shotgun "just in case"

Originally posted by whatukno
www.snopes.com...

Just want to sidetrack a bit from this enlightening and exhilarating discussion with my bestest birther buddy ProtoplasmicTraveler here for a moment, to bring you something that actually has more to do with the OP than ProtoplasmicTraveler's great dissertation into why the president does not deserve bill of rights protections:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c80eabc67a7c.jpg[/atsimg]

Thanks to shug7272 we now know this article is a HOAX and that it was an addition made singularly by a publication that had some national pride in a candidate with Kenyan roots.

 

Back to your regularly scheduled claptrap into why birthers hate the Constitution...

You actually believe snopes after they have changed many articles to keep up with Obamas lies? They have changed the hospital Obama was born in 3 times. I have seen side by side screen shots where they have altered what they they originally wrote to protect Obama. They have lost all credibility in my eyes.

reply to post by calstorm


I would believe Snoops.com over WND any day.

Originally posted by oneclickaway
So, just out of debt but have amassed millions in spare cash?

You are so uninformed, you probably shouldn't have a dog in this race....

the White House released tax returns for the president and first lady, who jointly reported about $2.8 million in income last year. The bulk of that—about $2.6 million—were royalties from the president’s two books: “The Audacity of Hope” and “Dreams From My Father.” That’s hardly a shabby figure, but Obama’s book income was much higher the year before, when he reported almost $4.1 million in royalties, according to his 2007 Senate financial disclosure. Source

Books......income from books. Remember those things? Paper? Got words printed on them?

reply to post by MrPenny


Jolly good, then we can expect to see between 1 and 3 million declared as spent on lawyers fees on the next return, if you believe he is not spending taxpayers money on defence lawyers. Of course we won't see anything of the sort.

As per the books...paper...writing......he really needs to share those royalties with whoever wrote them, probably the terrorist, communist and America hating, William Ayers. Even if Ayers was lying recently when he stated he wrote 'Dreams', the words, sentences and scenarios are interestingly similar. Let alone that this has been corroborated in a recent book about the Obamas.

www.cashill.com...

Although of course, he never knew Ayers.

Andersen quotes a Hyde Park neighbor, "Everyone knew they were friends and that they worked on various projects together. It was no secret. Why would it be? People liked them both."

www.cashill.com...

Oh, and you can be as childishly insulting as you like, as the only person it is showing up is yourself.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by rnaa

 

...
To top it all off the person running the whole show (supposedly) (not) has rumors from his own family and the African Press that he was actually born in Kenya and the guy is spending millions of dollars, in dozens of lawsuits, to keep from having to show the Birth Certificate that would prove it.

That is simply not true. There is not one word of it that is true except the part that many silly people are launching lawsuits and wasting lots their of money.

Obama is not spending millions of dollars. That is another lie perpetrated by your puppetmasters.


Source

First the premise of “millions spent” isn’t true. Mr. Woocher, Obama’s lawyer in California told Politico.com that he was working pro bono (for free) and that this talk of millions spent is false. Many of the lawsuits aren’t directed at Obama anyway, but at state officials, so no Obama expense there either.

“This suit, like all of the others that have been filed challenging Obama’s qualifications for the Presidency, is frivolous,” he said in an email to POLITICO, adding that he is, in fact, working pro bono. “There is absolutely no truth to the stories about the untold millions supposedly being paid to us,” he said.

I have absolutely no idea, as in zip, zero, none, how any rational, sentient human being, who wasn't dropped repeditively on their head as a child thinks everything is just hunky dorry and there isn't a huge problem and it has to do with a level of corruption and lies that truly does boggle the imagination, to take a nation as prosperous and free as America once was into this Orwellian nightmare of poverty and war, and unemployment and debt that it has become.

I can't argue with that, it is a perfectly valid opinion (extreme perhaps, but valid), and it has nothing whatsoever to do with Barrack Obama's birth certificate. Nada. Zip.

Hey I guess if you like the guy who is running the country's smile or something none of that matters.

One thing is for sure, you sure can't point to one darn thing he's done to make America any more prosperous or freer for the people.

What President can you say that about from your world view?

His Health Care Reform program answers both those criteria, but it has been severely crippled by your puppetmasters.

But he has been in the job less than a year with people like you sniping at him. Most Presidents get at least 4 years to make a difference. He is never the less moving ahead with his agenda that he promised the American people he would.

In fact you can't even point to his real birth certificate.

Yes I can, and you know it. Why do you continue to blatantly lie.

Its here and here in a simple, rather unsatisfactory image. But notice it says "Certification" at the top and "Certificate" at the bottom . Sort of the best of both worlds.

Here is a better view with lots of angles, and both sides.

Because he hides it behind teams of lawyers at a cost of millions of dollars.

False.

Are you getting paid to continue this rant in this manner?

Edit: forgot link to external quotation source



[edit on 26/10/2009 by rnaa]

Originally posted by rnaa

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by rnaa

 

In fact you can't even point to his real birth certificate.

Yes I can, and you know it. Why do you continue to blatantly lie.

Its here and here in a simple, rather unsatisfactory image.

Here's what the Wiki source you cited says:

Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state holds Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.

But it's not shown anywhere in that link. So you're pointing to a certification of live birth and not the original certificate of live birth that Hawaii says it has on file. And please stop calling people liars over what are differences in semantics or references to specific documents, nobody is lying here, we are just talking about 2 different documents: the original birth certificate Hawaii has on file (If your source is correct about that), and the other certification of live birth document posted on the internet, which is not the original document Hawaii refers to. The easiest way to distinguish them, is the original will show the hospital and the one posted on the internet doesn't. So unless you can point to the hospital he was born at on the document, you're looking at a computer generated record from a computer database, and not the original birth certificate.

reply to post by Arbitrageur

But it's not shown anywhere in that link. So you're pointing to a certification of live birth and not the original certificate of live birth that Hawaii says it has on file. And please stop calling people liars over what are differences in semantics or references to specific documents, nobody is lying here, we are just talking about 2 different documents: the original birth certificate Hawaii has on file (If your source is correct about that), and the other certification of live birth document posted on the internet, which is not the original document Hawaii refers to. The easiest way to distinguish them, is the original will show the hospital and the one posted on the internet doesn't. So unless you can point to the hospital he was born at on the document, you're looking at a computer generated record from a computer database, and not the original birth certificate.

There is absolutely zero relevant information on the long form birth certificate that justifies it's release. What the doctor's name? Why? so Birthers can find and harass what must be an old man about a single birth in 1961?

The COLB is perfectly legal to confirm the identity, and the place of birth for the President. The fact that Hawaii holds the origional record is further proof of the president's birth in Hawaii. No other state holds my birth certificate. The idea that somehow the long form will confirm or deny anything is utter insanity. If Obama was indeed born in Kenya and his parent's got him a birth certificate in Hawaii, the COLB would reflect that (assuming the bull dunk that anyone can get a birth certificate from Hawaii is true) It would state that Obama was born in Kenya and got a birth certificate from Hawaii.

When everything is given to you piece by piece and shown to you over and over again and you continue to deny it. What makes you think that the POTUS is going to miraculously just decide to give you more information to deny?

When all of your "supposed" evidence of a Kenyan birth is well established frauds, misconceptions, and utter insanity, what makes you think that anyone is going to care about what theory you believe? So far, birthers have never brought forth one shred of credible evidence that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii.

We all acknowledge that nothing is going to stop you from believing this moronic conspiracy. We accept that. But please, do us the favor and at least humor our intellects by bringing to the table some credible tangible evidence to support your theory. 9/11 truthers laugh at you, seriously they do. The reason? You have no tangible, credible, source specific, evidence to support your cause.

This administration has done what no other administration would ever consider. They actually tried to appease you and give you the information that you requested. All it did was put fuel on the fire for you. What makes you think they will ever try and do right by you again? What makes you think they will humor your insanity any more than they already have? All you have proven is what lunacy this theory is. All you have shown is that your incredulous to the facts.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb49f4207a0b.jpg[/atsimg]

This is what it is, birther insanity.

You try and paint this as "Needing proof of his Constitutional Eligibility". But you fail to realize that the constitution does not specify:

1. What is a Natural Born Citizen.

2. What proof is necessary to prove someone is a Natural Born Citizen.

Obama being born in Hawaii to an American mother seems to dictate that he both has jus soli and maternal citizenship. More than enough to quantify Natural Born Citizenship Status.

But while your protesting for the mandates of the constitution your also stepping all over this citizens 4th Amendment and 6th Amendment rights. You cannot have a piecemeal Constitution. It does not come A la Carte. It's all or nothing. The fact that birthers are so willing to trample on two of the most important bill of rights amendments in their eternal crusade to vilify the POTUS shows the flawed logic at work. If for some reason you succeeded in this unholy effort at removing your political enemy from office you would damn us all to a police state. One where anyone can demand proof of citizenship at anytime and there would be no right to counsel or a fair trial. This is not the America I want to live in.

By all legal standards Obama has proven he is a natural born citizen of this country. He has proven this beyond all reasonable doubt. (please note, it's not beyond all shadow of a doubt, its beyond all reasonable doubt.)

If this was a democracy and not a Republic the overwhelming majority could just vote and tell you to STFU. But fortunately for you we live in a Republic so .015% of the population is allowed to spew whatever nonsense they feel like.

So I am telling you (not you personally Arbitrageur, but birthers in general) to bring actual proof or STFU and GTFO. In the nicest possible way of course.

reply to post by rnaa


It’s hysterical it truly is the amount of personal vitriol that is worked in to some posts by some people who seem to think fellow members are responsible for Obama’s poor actions and lack of honesty and integrity.

How I or anyone else lives their life has absolutely not one thing to do whether a person meets expectations, exceeds expectations or fails to meet expectations.

Do you my friend really think I care what you read or what you wear?

You are not the President of the United States. You are just a person living in Australia doing what ever it is you do living in Australia. Who cares why you live in Australia or what you do living in Australia, or what you read living in Australia or what you wear living in Australia?

Chances are no one but your immediate family and a few close friends and associates.

I have said many times before that Obama’s willful and deliberate failure to meet expectations to legally establish his eligibility is not a referendum on my or any other person’s or members virtues.

It’s about his failure to meet legal expectations.

Perhaps it is Obama’s total lack of meaningful experience that allows him to be so ignorant of something in the corporate business world called the WOW factor.

When a customer walks into a store or places a phone call or visits a website for products or services they have their own expectations of what would constitute good service.

Businesses that pursue a mark of excellence look to exceed someone’s expectations and to WOW them. In other words to impress the customer with more service, and more ease of service and an even higher quality product and an even better value oriented price than the customer expected before engaging that business to contract or purchase goods and services.

Well run businesses know that if you exceed customer expectations you will create a happy and loyal customer.
They know that if you simply ‘meet’ a customers expectations that while that customer is happy and satisfied that customer is still susceptible to be lured away by the competition because while that customer is happy and satisfied that customer has not been WOWed by their shopping experience. Of course they also know that failure to meet the customer’s minimal expectations will result in a unhappy, dissatisfied customer who is likely to shop elsewhere in the future.

Of course each person has somewhat different standards and expectations some people’s expectations are very low. They don’t expect much and will accept less as a result. Some people’s expectations are average. They are discerning but not that discerning. Some people’s expectations are of the highest order. They understand that they are looking for value and quality and service and know through a broad range of experiences what constitutes value, quality and service. Different types of thinkers and different types of standards and there is really only one way to keep them all happy and completely satisfied and that is by WOWING them and exceeding each and all of their expectations. That’s what good businesses and good business people strive to do.

Your argument is based on if someone has not met your expectations that you should lower your expectations.

Your argument is based on that it is reasonable for you to lower your expectations because some people have lower expectations and standards. Basically what you are saying is people should not eat at 4 & 5 star restaurants because McDonalds serves up a tasty enough hamburgers, that people should not stay in Deluxe or Superior Deluxe hotels because Motel 6 offers a warm clean bed and leaves the light on. Your argument is that no one should want or need to drive a Rolls Royce, because a Hyundai will get you there just fine.

Your argument is that if the counter clerk at McDonalds is slow and discourteous and serves the food cold you should still be satisfied because you got something to eat. Your argument is that if the room at Motel 6 is so cheaply decorated that when you turn on the lamp and it breaks in your hands because of it’s inferior quality and illuminates a dozen roaches scurrying for the cover of darkness that you should be satisfied because the roof doesn’t leak and there is a bed for you to sleep in. Your argument is that if your Hyundai only does 0-60 in 15.5 seconds and you don’t even have the acceleration power to safely get on to freeway from an onramp that you should probably just take surface streets but be happy nonetheless that your Hyundai can get you from some point a’s to point b’s.

Your argument my friend is basically to not be critical of public officials who fail to meet standards and expectations let alone exceed them.

Your argument is to lower your expectations of public officials and not to care if they fail to meet them.

Obama has failed to meet many concerned and intelligent citizens as well as the Constitutions legal expectations.
He certainly hasn’t met them or there would not be so many dissatisfied people, with so much criticism in regards to this issue. Houston we have a problem. However in this case Houston doesn’t care!

For Obama him self is not interested in meeting legal expectations, and he sure isn’t interested in exceeding legal expectations.

In fact he wants to do the opposite not just with the Birth Certificate issue but every other responsibility he has as President by constantly telling people that to expect to much, or even anything reasonable, like that the average cost to save or create a job through the bailout of 345,000 versus the 80,000 dollars per job the government originally estimated is not his fault. It’s some one else’s fault.

That is of course very similar to you ordering that McDonald’s hamburger, not because you wanted it but because your domineering big brother wanted for you to have it, and the price on the menu board that says 1.99 suddenly becomes 7.50 when the customer service counter rep rings up the transaction.

Not my fault says big brother what did you really expect to be able to eat for what you expected? Don’t be silly, just accept it, buy it and eat it whether you like it or not.

Don’t think Government is a business? Of course it’s a business, a business of running a nation, of attending to people’s needs and other nation’s needs, of helping them all enjoy a quality of life and an ease of doing business with the government that meets or exceeds their expectations.

I sir frankly don’t expect a high government official to turn up his nose at the law and reasonable requests for his qualifications when it’s not the average person’s fault his grandmother says he was born in Kenya and so have many African Newspapers.

I expect him to abide by the law and the constitution and so do a lot of other people who are investing time and money as litigants in lawsuits where as citizens they them selves are exceeding expectations by going above and beyond the call to be consciences citizens who recognize that it is everyone’s duty to see that the constitution is upheld and respected.

Yet the chief executive officer and commander in chief of the United States and it’s military forces does not want to meet those reasonable legal expectations, let alone exceed them.

He wants to avoid those expectations by hiring attorneys at a cost of millions of dollars in a despicable and questionable attempt to thwart those concerned citizens who are exceeding expectations in their own responsibilities as citizens to be allowed him self to fail to meet expectations in his need to be legally qualified to do the job.

Not only does he not want to meet expectations he has used government personnel like his Press Secretary to encourage people to lower their expectations below constitutional standards and thresholds.

It is little wonder in light of these very unseemly things being done by the President and publicly paid members of his Administration that the only defense someone could proffer is to offer up personal attacks on the characters and motives of discerning, constitution loving citizens with the kind of expectations that in the past have always typified America and the American spirit…THE HIGHEST.

Obama is deliberately attempting to fail to meet legal expectations, and constitutional expectations.

How anyone can defend bad and dishonest business and bad and dishonest business practices and want to see such a business prosper for that is beyond me.

Incredibly sir that is just what you are doing!


[edit on 26/10/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Here is his short form birth certificate, Arbitrageur offline. It hasn't only been shown online.



The birth certificate is at 1:49.

reply to post by Mak Manto

I can't be bothered to watch that again, wasn't it the one with the shouty man? But which version are they showing, version 1, 2 or 3 that they put online? Thing is that even if they plastered them all over the Statue of Liberty, it still would not make it either real or valid.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


The post asked me to point to his 'real birth certificate' and I did that.

The Wikipedia has an (admittedly disappointing, but look elsewhere in the other links) image of his 'real' birth certificate.

There can be no document in existence that is 'more real'. There can be no document in existence that is more valid.

We are NOT talking about two documents here. We are talking about the 'real birth certificate'.

And that is an image of the 'real birth certificate'. Period.

This fact has been explained to over and over and over and over. You continue to deny the fact over and over and over and over and over.

It IS the real birth certificate.

reply to post by rnaa


I thought there was a dude that proved it was a forgery... You going to try and say all the work he did to try and prove to everyone that it was indeed a real document only to find that it couldn't be was false as well?

It's funny, personally I find there are about 60 or 70 other things that we should vote Obama out of office on notwithstanding this issue. But whenever anyone ever dares question the chosen one, they get called, "wingnuts" "fringe lunatics" or even mentally ill.

I think that in itself speaks more volumes than a document.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Wow.

Something must have gotten through to you. You have suddenly turned into a coherent writer.

I do not agree with your premise that Obama has not fulfilled his legal and/or Constitutional requirements.

I do not agree that you can apply the Customer/Business relationship model to the Citizen/Goverment relationship.

But at least you are writing about something that can be discussed.

However, it is off-topic for this thread.

Thank you for playing.