Let's find a Level D Simulator, and re-create the 9/11 flights.

reply to post by Has2b

OP

Could you please post a link to a video (s) of the test simulations on one of those Level D Simulators that the 9/11commission organised, where very inexperienced pilots .......and just random ordinary folk ......were able to easily learn to fly missions exactly as occurred?

I wish I DID have video links to what you requested. THAT is the problem.

It is VERY expensive to rent a simulator....but even if we all chipped in, it is STILL expensive...

AND, regardless...the whole thing would not answer the detractor's comments, anyway....

Here's the deal:

IT WOULD BE FUN, for all involved...we could video it, and post it here on ATS...and there would STILL THOSE who would critiscize it, find fault with it, claim it was "FAKE!!!" or whatever....BECAUSE that is the nature of ATS!!!!!!

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Originally posted by weedwhacker
Well, I guess ALL of the so-called P4T 'experts' who post THEIR credentials do it....um....no, they're not 'bragging'....no, 'nuthin' like that.....

I have NOT seen anyone video a simulator re-creation (yet)....JUST WORDS from alleged 'pilots' who, as I've mentioned, may certainly be as capable as the next guy (even me) BUT didn't have the proper set-up in the Sim for the events.

weedwhacker, you post about your experience and brag about it.
The P4T people post their experience and brag about it.
The difference is that the P4T people also post their verifiable names.

You're starting a thread about renting a video-game simulator, when the P4T people have already done it. Pilots with verifiable names say that it is extrememly difficult to fly those flight paths. Many 'pilots' without verifiable names are here stating that it would be a piece of cake. Go figure...

Originally posted by RankRancid
Why do you guys repeatedly think that because you have experience in one of the areas of this tragedy you should have the right to shoot down anyone asking questions?

Please comb this thread and show me where I have shot down one question?

Originally posted by RankRancid
You would have to be an absolute retard to think that because you are a ramp monitor you have any clue as to what really happened when there are thousands of factors.

I never said that I know everything, but I can tell folks the things that I do know are BS. Is there any problem with shooting down the known untrue information, and there is a ton of it, that certain folks in the truth movement keep spreading around the Internet as though its factual?

Originally posted by RankRancid
I always see jack of all trades and masters of none on these dumb ass threads.

Exactly, the truth movement is full of such people, and they like to spread around untrue speculation, assumptions, and rumors as though they're facts.

Originally posted by RankRancid
People want answers from the authorities ok?

I am pretty sure that they have given you their answers, and the fact that only a handful of supposed professionals seem to side up with the truth movement speaks volumes as to the VAST number of professionals who disagree with it. Of course they don't like that factor pointed out to them, which is why they send spokespersons over here from other sites to make new accounts and quibble irrelevant details with folks like me or weed, trying to find any chink in our armor they can to discredit us.

Originally posted by RankRancid
Not you,not wheedwhacker or anyone else on these boards. I find it sad that before these people are even in a position to get these questions answered they have to go through a river of morons.

Yes I find it sad that folks in the truth movment act the way they do. That they harass innocent people like this:

Picture Made on 9/11 Takes a Toll on Photographer
“Every time I’ve done any stories it goes online and all these conspiracy theorists start up and they call me and harass me,” said Mrs. McClatchey, 51, who runs her own real estate company. In numerous online postings, critics have ripped apart every element of the photo, and Mrs. McClatchey’s life. They accuse her of faking the photo, of profiteering from it and of being part of a conspiracy to cover up the fact that Flight 93 was shot down by the government. They claim the mushroom cloud is from an ordnance blast, not a jet crashing; the cloud is the wrong color for burning jet fuel; the cloud is too small and in the wrong position. They’ve posted her personal e-mail, phone numbers and street address online. One Canadian “9/11 debunker” surreptitiously taped a phone conversation with her, quizzing her about the photo, and then uploaded it to his Web site.

How proud it must make folks to be part of such a fantastic organization with such honorable motives.
So again, who are the morons here?

Originally posted by RankRancid

Can you stop trying to force your position onto others now please and let these people get what they want?

When will they stop forcing their religious cult beliefs on the rest of us. Everyone who is interested in the topic is already on one side or another of it, stop preaching to the rest of us who do not wish to join your cult and drink your coolaid. Stop posting 50 new topics a day on ATS that are all nothing more then a link to a Youtube Video, stop jamming up Youtube with inane videos that are pure works of fiction.

Originally posted by RankRancid
I would think that any modern adult would have been able to figure this out by themselves but clearly I was mistaken.

Right, you would think that modern adults would understand not to continue to ram stuff down others throats like this:


Yep thats how adults handle things.
However, I understand your plight, if you cannot shut up the opposition by beating them, shaming them, insulting them, trying to get them banned for losing their temper at the insults, then just ask them to stop posting with thinly veiled insults insinuating they are the ones who keep bringing this topic up.

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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by RankRancid

 

You need to use my brain power to remind you of your broken statements from ages ago.

Errrmmmm....could you be more specific about "ages ago"??? BECAUSE, you have *cough, cough* only been here on ATS since last July.....

See, this is all I have been getting at with this talk about logic. I know it seems nitpicky when you take them all separately out of context but what a pattern we have been given to look at.

It clearly states that YOU made the statement long ago. It does not say when the little dog read it. Are you trying to suggest that another persons registration date should somehow alter the date stamps on your old posts?

This just the kind of deep thinking that I expect to see from the type of person that knows how to get get new info and come back and repeat it.

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OKAY - NO MORE POLITENESS

Stick to the Topic.

Save the sidejabs, the snidey comments, the personal attacks.
You're all adults - act like it.

The Topic.


I've already Warned numerous replies as you can see.

No more. Ban.

posted by tezzajw
weedwhacker, you post about your experience and brag about it.
The P4T people post their experience and brag about it.
The difference is that the P4T people also post their verifiable names.

posted by defcon5
Weed...
Yeah, they want your verifiable name so they can look you up and harass you like they did that poor lady in Pennsylvania.

posted by tezzajw
Wow, I can't believe that you typed that, defcon. I guess that since you quoted me, you're assuming that I want to harass weedwhacker. That's quite a poor attempt to try and predict my actions.

Your statement has to be one of the more ignorant ones that I've read here in quite a while.

I've got a couple of choices to believe about the video game Sim experiment... I can believe weedwhacker, an anonymous internet pilot or I can believe other verifiable, named pilots.

These named easily verifiable pilots are also quite willing to risk their reputations and necks and jobs by publicly declaring their professional opinions.

These pilots are quite aware that FAA certified Flight Examiner/Check Airman Dan Govatos already ran a Level D flight simulation trying to hit the towers, on 9-12-2001.



Apparently unafraid of harrassment from the official fantasy shills and proponents, these pilots give out their real names and demand a real investigation into 9-11.

So why do 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY supporting pilots feel the need to hide their names from the public? A lack of faith in the truth of the everchanging official tale? Uncertainty in how long the rapidly self-destructing official myth can last? Perhaps an unwillingness to publicly ally themselves with the 9-11 perps?

Unlike our anonymous braggert 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY defending internet MS Flight Simulator plane jockeys, these pilots are for real.

Capt. Timothy Self
FAA certified airline transport pilot and flight engineer
FAA certified Flight Engineer, Flight Instructor, Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Retired U.S. Air Force Simulator Instructor

Mark Avellino BS Aeronautical Science
FAA certified commercial pilot
Certified Flight Instructor

Capt. Scotty Zeches, MBA
Commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight and Ground Instructor

James M. Craven, MA
FAA certified commercial pilot, Instrument
FAA certified Ground Instructor

John C. Miller
Retired corporate pilot
FAA certified commercial pilot (multiengine, instrument) and Flight Instructor

Capt. Brent Dale Greenwood
Retired commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight Engineer, Flight Instructor, and Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic

Maj. Brian Power-Waters, U.S. Air Force (ret)
Retired commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight and Ground Instructor, and Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic

Capt. Claude Sourzac
Commercial airline pilot

Jeffrey Smathers
FAA certified commercial pilot, Flight Instructor and Experimental Aircraft Builder

Capt. Ed Parise
Retired commercial airline pilot
Former fighter pilot
U.S. Navy

Capt. Hadi Rizvi
Commercial airline pilot Pakistan International Airlines
Retired fighter pilot Pakistan Air Force

Christian Österdahl
Commercial airline pilot

Bob Price
FAA certified Commercial pilot

Christina Merrick
Commercial airline pilot
Advanced flight instructor
Consultant for AOPA Legal Attorneys

John Panarelli
Commercial airline pilot
Former U.S. Air Force instructor pilot
Friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski, Captain of American Flight 11

John Bell
Commercial airline transport pilot
FAA certified Flight Instructor

Gerald P. New
Commercial airline transport pilot
FAA certified Flight Instructor and Ground Instructor

Capt. Christopher M. Woodham
Former U.S. Air Force pilot
FAA certified Commercial airplane and helicopter pilot

Richard Kleiner
Retired commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight Instructor

J. Randall Reinhardt, JD
FAA certified commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight and Ground Instructor

Michael Masters
Commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight Instructor

Mike Rieker, MS CS
FAA certified airline transport pilot and commercial helicopter pilot
FAA certified Flight Instructor

Source

Real pilots putting their names and reputations where their mouths are.

And lots and lots more where these came from.

So where are the lists of real pilots publicly supporting the 9-11 official conspiracy theory?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/63b7387179af.jpg[/atsimg]


[edit on 10/16/09 by SPreston]

I'm a little late to this thread. I am not sure if this video has been posted.
At 4:40, there is an amature pilot that flys the flight 77 path.

Watch the video to see if he is capable! (subtitles)

reply to post by SPreston


SPRESTON....I AM A 'Real' pilot'

But, to make it clear....these "real pilots', who I will repeat from your post...

(BTW, these HANDFUL from out of the over 60,000 THOUSAND professional pilots who exist, not only in ALPA, by alsoin other Uninons, such as the APA and SWAPA....out of THOSE tens of thousands, you get...hmmmm......HOW many???)

Capt. Timothy Self
FAA certified airline transport pilot and flight engineer
FAA certified Flight Engineer, Flight Instructor, Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Retired U.S. Air Force Simulator Instructor

Oh, tell us for "Capt." Self....

We can look him up on the FAA Registry...IF we know his address...or SS#...same with ALL of us....

Mark Avellino BS Aeronautical Science
FAA certified commercial pilot
Certified Flight Instructor

ibid.

Capt. Scotty Zeches, MBA
Commercial airline pilot
FAA certified Flight and Ground Instructor

So far, I have the SAME credentials....yet I feel that I can see the results of the facts of 9/11 differently....

I could continue, but that'd be just a waste of space....

Here is the BIG QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT in the heck is the problem????

WHY does an event, such as the co-ordinated hijacking of four airplanes simultaneously (almost) have to become this huge, and convluted "FALSE FLAF" "PSYOPS" or other imagined scenario...WHEN the mere facts of the incident are plain to see....

There was NO "FLYOVER" at the Pentagon, as 'alleged'....because there is NO EVIDENCE to support such a claim, and there is NO REASON to think that this incredible and 'complex' scheme could be pulled off with such 'precision', and THEN they failed to account for all of the gaps and holes that only later a few kids on the Internet somehow figure out???

ACTUALLY, is was some French dude who originally raised all of the 'questions'...and BECAUSE of the Internet the rest, as they, is 'History'.

Let's lok at SOME MORE of these guys....I know NONE of them p[ersonally, but allow me to wonder.....

James M. Craven, MA
FAA certified commercial pilot, Instrument
FAA certified Ground Instructor

Again....SO WHAT????

I TOO had a Commercial/Instrument....back in 1977!!!! At that time I had NOT flown any commercial jets. I didn't have the knowledge base needed to ascertain the complexity and YES the possiblity of the 9/11 hijackings and attacks, BECAUSE I HAD certain ratings, but NOT IN THE AIRPLANES flown on that day!!!!!!

(BTW....My 'Comm/Instr' is superceded by my ATP....although, because the ATP is for multi-engines, I still hold Commercial priveleges (LAND) in single-engine airplanes. There just aren't that many single-engine Transport Category airplanes that I know of...perhaps someone could describe a few, I'd love to learn of them...)

OH!! AND I have a Ground Instructor's Certificate - Advanced.....

SO......pffffft!@

The rest? more pfffffft@


OH, and this one caught my eye....

Christina Merrick
Commercial airline pilot
Advanced flight instructor
Consultant for AOPA Legal Attorneys

What the heck is an "Advanced Flight Instructor"????

I had a CFII. Guess that's 'advanced'.... (btw, the CFI expires unless you keep it active...mine is inactive, but can be renewed with just a refresher seminar, as per FAA regs...)

I also, BECAUSE of my ATP, can insturct OTHER ATP candidates....so the ATP tends to trump the CFI...

but, back to my CFII...it was also good for ASEL and AMEL...and if you don't know what that means, then you have no business criticzing me....

Real pilots putting their names and reputations where their mouths are.

And lots and lots more where these came from.

"Lots more"???

You have NO idea.......

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SPreston

 

SPRESTON....I AM A 'Real' pilot'

But, to make it clear....these "real pilots', who I will repeat from your post...

(BTW, these HANDFUL from out of the over 60,000 THOUSAND professional pilots who exist, not only in ALPA, by alsoin other Uninons, such as the APA and SWAPA....out of THOSE tens of thousands, you get...hmmmm......HOW many???)

Mr Wacker

With respect sir, the above is a "strawman argument".

As per my first post in thread ,I have spoken privately to AAF and Qantas pilots, who despite the setting being friends in a private home,sampling some deliciously expensive red wine watching Intl football match........both even then , were very reluctant togive their views!

This was implied as being because their livelihood depends on not causing contentiton and particularly military...reluctant to openly defy the "organisations" official stance.

Nevertheless "privately" they held strong reservations about how"easy"it would be!

This thread is going nowhere, ....but thank you for responding to my post .....maybe some got deleted?

Fact IS!!!...you would never have flown a 767 at 460knots at 800ft...especially with no ground support/guidance...therefore like others you are speculating.

If I am wrong..then that would be interesting to hear your "story"