I really had thought that I had posted my last thread but here goes another.

So many people here just do not have the forsight to figure out the difference between survival and primitive living. We need clarification here. What is surviving, what is primitive living.

Survival is what you do when your airplane crashes. It is what transpires as you seek to obtain your original way of life. It can be something as simple as getting lost, to as complex as having an economic collapse. The one thing survival has as a goal is a return to another, higher form of lifestyle.

Primitive living on the other hand is an thought out, planned return to a simpler yet more demanding lifestyle. For some it just means moving out to a more rural homestead, for others it means forsaking all amenities that are available today. If we look at sustainability, obviously a simpler lifestyle is more easily obtainable.

there are a lot of people on this board that are making preparations to bug out, move, survive etc because of a major disruption in their lifestyle. However there is a growing trend in those that are seeking a more primitive existence without all the garbage that goes on in most peoples lives.

I have seen threads on everything from guns to camping to home remedies here. what I have not seen is an open call to renounce their current lifestyle in exchange for a simpler more self reliant one. Until we as a people learn to be more self reliant we cannot help but be pawn for the TPTB.

What I would suggest is learn to do without some of the more trivial matters in life and apply yourself to be more self sufficient as a lifestyle. That way when things go south you will not only be prepared but may not even be inconvenienced. If we look to those that have chosen a simpler lifestyle and emulate those people, we will become much more secure in ourselves and our abilities. Look at the Amish and Menonite communities. While I do not ascribe to their religious beliefs they are a shining example in self sufficiency.

When we learn to use other forms of energy, grow our own foods, and depend on our own willingness to get along. Then we will no longer be in need of any help from any form of government. We that are aware must become more self sustaining.

If or when a major disaster looms on the horizon it will be these people that pull themselves up from their bootstraps and reforge society, not those that are running around hiding in the woods waiting for someone or something to restore order. It is not surviving that is an issue it is thriving in the face of adversity that will set you apart from others. Learn to do it yourself or don,t do it.

Don't fall prey to all the survival, hording, gun toting, woods hiding, shelter building that is starting to run rampant. Do learn to live a simpler more self contained lifestyle so that when something does happen you can go out and live what has become a normal lifestyle, of growing your own food, barter, hunting, and skilled trades that can be exchanged for other needed items.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Great point!
In fact there ARE people who are starting on the change and some of us want to, but feel trapped by money, work, family, health... But yes, on a number of forums I read threads from people who seem convinced that things are going to belly up, but then you read that they just bought a new flat screen tv/whatever.
I think the problem is:
1) Some are not wholly convinced that something bad will happen or what will happen
2) It's a temptation to stick with the lifestyle you know and for as long as possible.

Plus I do think that some people have a notion that primitive living = some sort of paradise where they just got rid of the bad guys.
We are, a lot of us, totally without the everyday skills that we would need in a world without power, medicine, manufactured goods...

Chief Seattle inquired once about The end of living and the beginning of survival.

Just staying alive is not necessarily living.

Originally posted by grover
Chief Seattle inquired once about The end of living and the beginning of survival.

Just staying alive is not necessarily living.

Survival is fine if it is temporary, but it is never a substitute for living. The two are entirely different ball-games. I absolutely concur.

I know a lot of Survivalists that can survive...but the question is for how long? Because one cannot live indefinitely by merely surviving alone.

And there are those who turn to a simpler life, but you won't find many of those people with electricity, let alone a computer, let alone the time to spend on ATS.

A wise person will prepare for all Worst-Case scenarios in order to survive any kind of disaster, but unless you have prepared yourself to live that way indefinitely by living that way now, then you will be doomed. The truly wise will prepare by living the same way now that they plan to live when SHTF.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by fraterormus]

To answer the overall question.

I know how to garden and can even do a good job of it in 5 gallon bucket.
I know how to can...to dehydrate and to smoke meats and sausages etc. I can even make some cheeses.
In short I know how to make a lot of food stuffs from scratch and to process them to last...at least for awhile.

However I am a lousy hunter and an even worse fisherman.

BUT bring me what you grow, kill or catch and I can do more with it than a lot of folks.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by grover]

You know that's good point !

Survival: the condition of having survived something.
A situation that we experience in which...
WE may become ill,be injured or die.
A situation we would prefer not be in... peril.
so pretty much daily life in my mind if your not happy.
Cheers

Safety,Food,water,shelter,Companionship.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by The Utopian Penguin]

You are absolutely correct about the difference in living and surviving.

I know there are many people who will have a difficult time surviving let alone living with any quality of life.

But I can't be the only person that knows how and has "lived" without "stuff".

For many years I have thrown my pots and pans, blankets and other necessities in my boat and lived on a sand bar or river bank for weeks at a time.

If I had never had children I just might be living on a river bank now with none of life's finer things. That is real living to me.

I have also been on many missions in other countries where we carved out a space in the jungle and we "lived" happily.

The difference between just surviving and living is the proper attitude.

It saddens me that some will not even survive.

Home is where you hang your hat. You have to make the best of what you have and enjoy doing it.

My family and I live in what we call the family compound. We started gardening 3 years ago and last year we decided it was time to get into animal farming.

We are ready to sing and dance around the campfire, work during the daylight hours and sit around drinking home brew telling lies at night.

Sounds like the good life to me.

It's not too late prepare. At least learn how to make a comfortable toilet out of natural things you can find. A Comfortable toilet and a dry place to sleep are very important.

I think you have some very good points RP. I consider myself a bit of a technological minimalist; except for this computer.
I have been studying and practicing aboriginal skills for 40 years now and in the event of a real emergency I could fend for myself though not indefinitely. Even if you can make stone tools and bows, forage, hunt and trap there are many modern technologies that make it much easier in the case of having to "rough it". Steel knives, firearms and water purifiers are absolute godsends! I wouldn't be caught without them. Yes, it is compromise but it's a matter of how much compromise any of us can make.
Sadly, what were once universal skills are largely forgotten and modern conveniences must make up the difference until they can learn those skills necessary to survive. Adaptability is a worthy goal and the more skills you have the more adaptable you are.
I agree our consumption based lifestyles are not sustainable nor truly desireable. The earth has many pleasures we have abandoned for digital counterfeit experiences. I have always had an innate distrust of technology, whenever I see a new piece come out I instantly wonder what it's potential for abuse is. My experiences have borne out my suspicions.
Modern society may well be on a train ride to hell but we have to slow the train down before people can get off it.
In one respect an economic collapse would be helpful and desirable in that people will learn to make do with less and to enjoy the simpler things in life. Imagine if gardening were as popular as video games with young people............maybe one day.

as far as the original post, I really beleive you can have both sustainability and still have a comfortable lifestyle close to what you're used to, for a few years now, I've lived almost totally self sustainable, I get my own water, grow my own food in my garden, and starting to grow some hydroponics, have indoor plumbing and toilets I've been able to keep maintained myself, even supply power trough windmills and waterwheels I've built, and solar panels I aquired, enough for lights, fridge, cameras, computer, even my tv and 360. only thing I'm not doing myself is my own beer, wich I'm looking into brewing mead and what all that would entail.

I honestly think that all it really takes is a little thinking outside the box, reading, and willingness to learn, I can live a primative, simple life, and make due, would I want to? not really.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Gren]

I agree, with most everyone..
s+f for OP
If this is my best input on such a deep topic.
I can only use an annalogy...

Some work to live
Some live to work

Some live to survive
Some survive to live

There is a great vast many different/cultural ppl on ATS
and everyone has a little different ethinics/work/social...etc... expectations.

If nothing else maybe I sparked interest for other members/ppl
edit I spel bad

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Doc Holiday]

Survival is what you do when the lights go out and society collapses. Living is what you need to do prosper and go on living long term.

You can have a kick butt bunker with food for your family for a year, water and power for two years. What happens when the year is up? Do you expect a new society to have formed and that you will be able to wonder down to the store to buy more food?

You need supplies to get you over the initial hump (especially up north here where you need enough supplies on hand to last till summer crops start to come in). I posted a thread a while ago about "survival skills" and which ones you should have at least a smattering of how to do them. I got some unfriendly U2U's about how they were "little house on the prairie" skills and other such.