You better agree with me, because if you don't everyone will hate you.

Ok, I had typed out a very long response to many of the points made on here, and lightning struck and knocked off my power just as I was about to post. It took me a few days to decide to respond again.

First I would like to address the PC attack on Catholics. This one is one that so many have gotten on board, including other Christians of different denominations. I was one of them until someone pointed out that, whatever denomination, we all have the same Lord. I think it's sad that your own brothers and sisters attack your religion, Xenographer

Koka, that is exactly what I'm saying. PCness is censorship not through the law, but through hate. If you tell someone they're not allowed to have an opinion, that it hurts other people's feelings, they're still going to have that opinion, they're just going to take it underground and develop followers of like minded people that no one is aware of. A prime example of this would be what Adolf Hitler did in the early 30s. His message of hate still got out (quite strongly later in the 30s) but because he had to tell it underground, away from the ears of the authorities, the shear numbers overwhelmed the average German. Now we're not doing it with law (except for this bs attempt at making the KKK a terrorist organization) but through hate, fuled by the media.

As for RANT's rant, I know there's not PC "police", but rather an entire mindset that the majority, whatever it may be, is to be loathed. To quote Koka: "I also found that when myself and my friends were going through our "right on" development, I was the outsider, because I was White, Male and Hetrosexual (WMH), most everthing that was bad could be attributed to this group - WMH." That's a steriotype. And one that is accepted and even expected. If you're white, your skincolor is an offense to many people. If you're male, your penis is offensive to many people. If you're heterosexual, your sexual preference is offensive to many people. The opposite is true in many cases, as well, but if someone voices a steriotypical opinion about a non-white race, they're condemned by the same people who, when someone voices a steriotypical opinion about a white person, they sadly shake their heads and agree. It's the double standard that has to go.

cureme, I'm assuming your comments were being sarcastic. I'm hoping they're sarcastic. But even if they are not, I respect your right to say them.


I had said a whole lot more in the first post lost to a power outage, and if anything comes to mind I'll post that, too. Hopefully, if people dispute my arguements, I'll be able to fill in the rest of the info that was lost to a bolt of lightning (that I got to see and was AWESOME! 3 houses down! )

I will finish it off by saying we(many of us) live in the United States of America, where the first ammendment gives us all the right to be offended. To take away that right is to take away our freedom of speach.

Well, I gotta say... I was just watching Family Guy...That show was NOT afraid to challenge the PC values of our culture. I think it speaks volumes about the average American's opinion on PC. How, you ask? Well, latest "Hollywood" rumor is that Fox is going to bring Family Guy, new episodes and all, back due to the incredible DVD sales. So I guess your average Joe Blow, who doesn't speak with his voice, can speak with his wallet...

Come-on Jake,
The Wallet is the ONLY thing they listen to!

Originally posted by Phoenix

Originally posted by curme

Originally posted by Phoenix

I imagine that if you ask anyone on a university campus that is liberal, they can vouch for how much the conservatives really care for the 1st amendment - Only when it applies to them and no others.

That was soooo original curme that I almost found myself admiring your wit - not in a million years!

Thats the BIG difference between Libs/conservatives we'll argue the point hard and vigorously, while you libs resort first to name calling and if that does not work you censor the message you dont want to hear. Its a proven fact that students on campus have been censored when supporting conservative ideals - this you cannot deny.

Campus Censorship

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by Phoenix]

And I can vouch for that Phoenix... Definitely happened to me... I know I posted this 2 or 3 times so far on this board but my politics prof tried to shut me up because I wouldn't agree with him. He claimed to be a political but he was pretty far to the left if you ask me.... I walked out of there with a 46 because I was too "cynical"....

There is a great website that shows how PCness has gone astray. It's tonguetied.us... . It has stories from all over the country that show some unsettling trends...

Domino Theory

The ACLU is threatening to sue the county of Los Angeles unless it removes a tiny cross that has been on its official seal for some 47 years, reports the Los Angeles Daily News.

The southern California chapter of the group contends that the cross represents a government-sponsored endorsement of Christianity.

"Los Angeles County is the most diverse county in the United States, and if the city of Redlands decided it had to do something, we think the county of Los Angeles should also," ACLU Executive Director Ramona Ripston said.

The county says removing the cross from the county's 5,000 buildings, thousands of vehicles, stationery, business cards, plaques, flags and Internet sites would cost a fortune.

The city of Redlands, Calif. quickly relented recently when faced with a similar lawsuit threat about a similar cross on its official seal.

Ahh, the wonderful world of PC...If you remove it, it's not in the minds anymore

I wish to bring life to this thread again because of the Ten Commandments monument removal taking place today. There is a concerted effort to remove the ten commandments from every avenue of life and pretend they didn't influence this country at all and the monuments didn't ever exist. There is an effort to remove American monuments!

Just to put some perspective on this issue, what would the media be saying if a group started attacking any muslim based or influenced monument on any land considered publis? What about if a group of people started going after monuments supporting gays? There would be an outcry by many groups and the media calling their motivations racist or biggoted. Yet people are allowed to do this to Christians. America has a Christian heritage (sp). We are trying to hide that now, thanks to a very few individuals. Revisionist history is lying to yourself and your children and hiding any lessons we could learn. By saying America's heritige wasn't Christian (many of the Gnostic faith are trying to say it was Gnostic, now ) and destroying any evidence that it was, we are depriving our children of their history. They will grow up thinking their nation is the great satan by what so many believe in this country today. Actually, let me rephrase that. They're think America is the great satan by what the loudest, smallest minority says about America today.

End political correctness, free freedom of speach.

Originally posted by junglejake
I wish to bring life to this thread again because of the Ten Commandments monument removal taking place today. There is a concerted effort to remove the ten commandments from every avenue of life and pretend they didn't influence this country at all and the monuments didn't ever exist. There is an effort to remove American monuments!

STOP THE PRESSES!

Angry white men are fed up! They're not gonna take it anymore!
Oh no! Seriously though, we were trying to be sneaky about it, rolling the monuments out the service doors on dollies, but I guess SOMEBODY locked the keys in the van.

You have a tax free club that listens to the invisible man in the sky. You just raided the federal treasury and now the government is paying your tax free clubs to promote your brand of "Invisible Man in the Sky"-ism through the guise of charity.

I don't like one cult over the other, I despise them all equally for distancing humanity from the Light and keeping the populace ignorant and self righteously intolerant.

So, to recap...

I honestly don't care if your symbols are taken out of our court houses.

I really don't care about your cult.

I'll gladly accept the American heritage of your cult, if your cult agrees to give up its tax free status. But, too many people are getting rich off pauper's pennies and old ladies Social Security checks to let that happen.

Believe me, the members of your cult aren't the only ones waiting for the rapture, so you can all be wisked away to Never Never Land, and do whatever it is you're going to do for an eternity. Until then, I do not want to subsidize your cult, or any cult for that matter.

The search for God is amazing and private, and should be done so without the aid of a giant, self serving middle man. It is a personal journey everyone should take to discover God within their daily lives. There is no Hell. God does not judge. God does not ask for money. Or checks. Or Credit Cards.

Somebody should be good without being baited for the hint of an eternal reward. Somebody should want to do good, because they are in fact good, because they choose to be empathetic and feel the pain of others, not because of some overbearing, mean spirited, insecure tryant that needs the constant reaffirmation of worship like some lovesick 13 year old girl.

And, if somebody needs a righteous audience to keep them holy, then they are neither righteous nor holy, but an actor seeking fame and fortune on a different sized stage.

I would like to say, GREAT POST

I would also like to add THE most hated group in this country:

White, heterosexual, conservative, succesfull, Christian, fathers.

It seems EVERYTHING is their fault, from slavery 200 years ago to world famine.

And I would like to emphasize "father" because it is a trend I never noticed before, but has really become clear to me.

I don't know if anyone has read the Barenstien Bears series of children books, but I recently read a few to my cousin, and in every single one it was the father messing up, and the mom fixing it.

Watch any comercial/TV show/Movie - if there is a boy and a girl/husband and wife, the guy is ALWAYS an idiot, thinking with his dick, screwing something up, doing something wrong...Basically setting the scene for super mom to come in and save poor dad from himself.

It goes on all the time. Why is it that father figures must be belittled to such a degree?

Originally posted by American Mad Man


Watch any comercial/TV show/Movie - if there is a boy and a girl/husband and wife, the guy is ALWAYS an idiot, thinking with his dick, screwing something up, doing something wrong...Basically setting the scene for super mom to come in and save poor dad from himself.

It goes on all the time. Why is it that father figures must be belittled to such a degree?

I think it's a just a thing of "all things have their season" for years woman were displayed as helpless underlings that stayed home, had babies, cooked and cleaned and hubby managed the money, did whatever he wanted to and the woman had not too much say...times have changed.



"I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan, and never, ever let you forget your a man" Cause I am a woman..W-O-M-A-N

Fair enough. But I think there is a bit of a difference. For much of the 20th century, the traditional familly life had the man working and providing the money while the mothers raised children and ran the house. There is no getting around this - it wasn't something that wasn't true being shown, it was the social norm.

With males today, they make them out to be blatently stupid, incompitent, and generally inferior. It's not right. Women may not have been mens equal in the workplace, but they were never portrayed as generally worthless and/or bad/evil/wicked.

AMM...that last statement was either of ignorance or blindness...look at all of the early advertising in 20th century. You would swear the only thing the women were worth was cooking, cleaning, and spittin' out babies. Women may have never been called worthless outright, but it looked pretty clear what men thought of them.

JJ, I think you need to add a little something onto the list for Southern folk. We are seriously racist. We are homophobes. And we are generally open about it. If you don't believe it, ask around. You will find that most people in the South will have a lil racist streak in them.

But I believe the most stereotyped...the most hated group is the black fellows. It is so bad they even believe most of the stuff...like if it weren't for basketball or rap. How many times have you been in a BAD neighborhood that wasn't mostly black populated? How many have looked at a black women with eight children and didn't immediatley think, "Paycheck babies!" Who found no problem in what Fuzzy Zoeller said after Tiger won his first Masters? There is a case to be made about them still being in the top branch.

But, ultimately, yes I have noticed that it is sure death if you are a white man in a commercial. In fact, I have pointed that out to my wife a couple of months ago. And she still doesn't see it.

My mistake, when I read the title of this thread I thought it was about religion. Because thats basically religions tag line. Believe what I do or everybody will hate you and awfull things will happen to you.

Originally posted by OXmanK
AMM...that last statement was either of ignorance or blindness...look at all of the early advertising in 20th century. You would swear the only thing the women were worth was cooking, cleaning, and spittin' out babies. Women may have never been called worthless outright, but it looked pretty clear what men thought of them.

Sorry - no ignorance or blindness here. What I said was true - women were portrayed in a very tradition manner. You fail to recognize that most womens role in a marrige WAS to cook, clean the house, and raise the kids, while the man worked. Women just didn't work back then - it was normal. That is totally different then now, where men are CONSTANTLY made to look bad so that a woman might save them or the situation.

But I believe the most stereotyped...the most hated group is the black fellows. It is so bad they even believe most of the stuff...like if it weren't for basketball or rap. How many times have you been in a BAD neighborhood that wasn't mostly black populated? How many have looked at a black women with eight children and didn't immediatley think, "Paycheck babies!" Who found no problem in what Fuzzy Zoeller said after Tiger won his first Masters? There is a case to be made about them still being in the top branch.

I have to dissagree with you here as well. You CAN'T hate blacks in this country. You can't say anything bad about blacks on TV or your a racist. You cant say anything bad about blacks at school, or you are expelled and racist. You can't fire a black or you get sued and are a racist. You can't not hire a black, or you are a racist and get sued. You can't refuse to do buisness with a black, or you are a racist and get sued.

It's completely out of control. Right now we are in an entire month dedicated to blacks for Gods sake! I don't see any white history month, or asian history month, or latino history month, or arabic history month!

Hell - they even took away GEORGE WASHINGTONs BIRTHDAY - the founder of our country - as a holiday, and REPLACED it with Martin Luther King day! I am sorry - I have the utmost respect for Kings contribution to this country, but if ANY man deserves a national Holiday it should be our first president!

Of course, I haven't even begun to talk about how EVERY problem that blacks have is the white mans fault. It's our fault they aren't succesfull - even though Asians have no such proble. It's OUR fault they have tons of kids and can't take care of them. It's OUR fault they never bothered to go to school.

And another thing - maybe the reason blacks are stereotyped is for a reason. When you walk through a bad area it is usually black. Thats not to say that all blacks are bad, but when I lived in New Orleans during/after school, it was ALWAYS blacks breaking into my house, breaking into my car, mugging my friends, and even RAPING 2 girls I know. I once had 3 DIFFERENT black guys brake into my car IN ONE 24 HOUR PERIOD! And the funny thing was I lived in a pretty good nieghborhood.

The sad part is that the GOOD blacks that make up the majority of their race dislike them MORE then any white person I know. I'll never forget what a few of my black football teamates said about the same type of degenerate blacks that most white people are scared of. It was worse then any racial slur I have ever heard.

Any way, sorry for my little rant, but I can't stand how people say blacks are hated when EVERYTHING is set up for them. You can't even criticize a black without getting labelled a racist.

Hel - as you just showed, you can't even be legitimately scared of a bad area or see a black lady using food stamps with 12 kids and think to yourself "she shouldn't have had so many kids" without it becoming a hate issue!

Originally posted by OXmanK
But, ultimately, yes I have noticed that it is sure death if you are a white man in a commercial. In fact, I have pointed that out to my wife a couple of months ago. And she still doesn't see it.

Well - I'm glad someone else oticed it too, because I thought it might just be me

Gotta disagree...the advertising was defeating women before they even had a chance. It's like someone telling you every waking moment that your place is in the kitchen.

Also, you can fire black people. I have seen it. It is possible. I have seen us refuse to do business with black people before without any lawsuit. You see, if you don't go against logic, nobody points fingers at you. I have seen one of my bosses tell a black kid why he would never hire him. (Tattos all over his arm in a service industry. IMAGE!) You can do all of the same things to black that have been to white people...except for tv. But the only one who gets away with that nowadays is Al Sharpton...but he is perhaps a bigger anti-semite than Hitler.

And I said nothing about being scared of the Bad Neighborhood or that the woman with the multiple kids was using food stamps. I was just pointing out what you might be thinking. Which sorta does prove my point...

Look, just as racist they are against us...we hold the same against them. I just want people to embrace it, because it ain't gonna change. And it won't just go away until we have it all in the open and change accordingly...or stay the stuffy old prudes who don't let anyone know what bothers them.

I'm a racist and proud of it. At least I don't try to b.s. any of ya'll.

Well, I can say I am NOT a racist.

Pointing out that a woman that has too many kids and has to use foodstamps as lacking responsability is NOT racist. The fact that when it is a BLACK woman you get called a racist is the problem.

The fact is, there are more of them - at least % wise - then there are white mothers doing the same thing. It has nothing to do with discrimination or disliking someone because of their race.

As for law suits, I have been employed by so many companies that were sued on grounds of discrimination it is sickening. In one instance, the worker was fired for STEALING yet he sued the company and won anyway. IMO, if you want to fire someone FOR WHAT EVER REASON you should be able to as long as it is not in breach of contract.

Regardless though, I am still sick of being a member of a group (white men) who are always at fualt for everything and have jobs and scholarships taken away from us by less qualified people just because they are a different race.

You know what I'm sick of?

People using the 'oh boo hoo, look at how PCness has gone too far' as an excuse.

While PC does go too far sometimes, (and I think it's the backlash from trying to make a difference, fighting the uphill battle for so long) that too often anti-PC is really more about a disdain for the subject in general, a feeling that there isn't a need to be concerned with these issues. And not wanting the label of bigot, and yet wanting to address these issues, they villify PC.

But the few examples of going too far don't mean that the issues do not exist. There is racism, sexism, still.

Originally posted by American Mad Man
IMO, if you want to fire someone FOR WHAT EVER REASON you should be able to as long as it is not in breach of contract.

Yet, you guys complain when that reason is deemed "PC."

... And lest we forget us inept, slightly overweight, smoking males who are approaching our golden years.

Sure used to like it alot better when I could make my own way based on my own particular set of skills, talents or capabilities. Now... Well, Politically Correct really does suck ... Er ... Hopefully, I can say suck without getting beat too badly.