Stealth Fighter Not So Stealthy

How dumb is the United States of America? Pretty dumb if you ask me. My problem:
The United States of America is allowing our stealths to be seen. How can you
see the stealth's? The answer is in Doppler Radar. Doppler Radar works by
measuring air density. By using the principle of Scattering: (the ability to tell
what radiation is reflected by small particles), Doppler Radar looks into the sky,
seeing the storms of the cunning edge.

But this is a deadly flaw in the stealths' design. For example, lets say a B2 is
flying in air that is being scanned by Doppler Radar: While the B2 itself cannot
be seen by regular radar, the air displacement is clearly seen by Doppler Radar.
As a result, the Doppler Radar can pick up enough on the Air Displacement for an
accurate location as to the stealth's position. If that can be relayed to antiAir
Defenses in Real Time the Stealth can be shot down easily! National Weather radars
travel at 750,000 watts with a beam width of 0.88 to 0.96. The radar is so advanced
it can detect dust!

What's worse is that this technology has been developed in China! F-15's already
use this system of radar. With so much evidence, the United States should admit
it has a flawed gem.


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by John bull 1]

Hmm, interesting, any links? Also, why don't you see all of the planes on the weather station? Maby you do, I don't know

"What's worse is that this technology has been developed in China! F-15's already
use this system of radar. With so much evidence, the United States should admit
it has a flawed gem"

Lots of aircraft use this system of radar:

EuroFighter Typhoon - Captor
Sea Harrier F/A.2 - Blue Vixen
Mirage 2000 - Dassault Electronique/Thomson-CSF RDI
JAS-39 Gripen - Ericsson PS-05
F16 - AN/APG-66
F14 - AN/AWG-9
and many more

The mig 29 also has a powerfull pulse dopler radar.. and was a frontline fighter like many other fighters you mention that are due to be replaced in the near future

So I ask you F-22 fans, which will win 1 on 1 F-22 or Super Flanker?

Please THINK! If it was that simple the US would produce no stealth aircraft at all. Most of the anti aircrafty radar are Doppler radars.

[Edited on 16-5-2004 by longbow]

You see considering how long the U.S. has pursued the still useless and unsafe V-22 and pursued the waay overpriced and underpreforming Commanche until they finnally cancelled it, I don't know that the U.S. would do as you speak. However I do see your point and I wouldn't at all be suprised to see if the F-22 series planes are desinged to minimize air disturbence, however they're far from invisible.

I'm afraid that radar is a far more complex subject than you give it credit for. Radars have to send out massive amounts of power but listen for very faint returns. It takes sophisticated processing equipment to isolate a true signal from other sources of interference--internal noise, multipath errors, ground clutter, etc. I recommend that you look at some books like these to better understand why your argument is oversimplified, at best.

www.amazon.com...=1084750309/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-0922282-2651206?v=glance&s=books

www.amazon.com...=1084750309/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-0922282-2651206?v=glance&s=books

www.amazon.com...=1084750580/sr=1-13/ref=sr_1_13/002-0922282-2651206?v=glance&s=books

About the "dust" in the air being detected. Can dust break the sound barrier? I don't think that doppler could pick up the planes as well, since the planes travel so fast. Yes, the waves are very quick, but I doubt that America would be dense enough to allow wimple weather tech to stop million dollar planes.

stealth is not to be explained as been complety
invisible !

it is just a matter of how the aircraft is used the tactical and strategic way !



[Edited on 16-5-2004 by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE]

Doppler radar has been in use by militaries for many years. It works by sending a continuous radio signal and
any measuring the change of frequency of returning radar waves by coming in contact with targets. The Stealthy technqiues used by aircraft involves reducing the energy of the radar signals and directing those radar signals away from the transmitter. Because little or no signal gets returned nothing is detected.

Originally posted by flyby
How dumb is the United States of America? Pretty dumb if you ask me. My problem:
The United States of America is allowing our stealths to be seen. How can you
see the stealth's? The answer is in Doppler Radar. Doppler Radar works by
measuring air density. By using the principle of Scattering: (the ability to tell
what radiation is reflected by small particles), Doppler Radar looks into the sky,
seeing the storms of the cunning edge.

But this is a deadly flaw in the stealths' design. For example, lets say a B2 is
flying in air that is being scanned by Doppler Radar: While the B2 itself cannot
be seen by regular radar, the air displacement is clearly seen by Doppler Radar.
As a result, the Doppler Radar can pick up enough on the Air Displacement for an
accurate location as to the stealth's position. If that can be relayed to antiAir
Defenses in Real Time the Stealth can be shot down easily! National Weather radars
travel at 750,000 watts with a beam width of 0.88 to 0.96. The radar is so advanced
it can detect dust!

What's worse is that this technology has been developed in China! F-15's already
use this system of radar. With so much evidence, the United States should admit
it has a flawed gem.


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by John bull 1]

That's why the stealth uses Radar Absobing Materials. Planes like the B-2 are design to absorb the radar and prevent the reflection. Even doppler RADAR works on the reflection principle. No reflection= No Target

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

please do not forget that the stealthfighter and stealthbomber (B-2) are able TO DELAY the bouncing back radarsignal so...the radarstation gets a faulty tracking !

that's what stealth is all about and i think if a stealthplane flies in rainy/humid situations it even can release very small uav's that are reflecting a much BIGGER radarsignature than the original stealthplane.

also these unmanned small uav's can fly in ways no other airplane with a pilot can maneuver because the pilot would be knocked off unconsious due to heavy G-forces

Doppler Radar could be used to defeat stealth technology but only if the stealth aircraft was known to be in its coverage area. Our present technology defeats the microwave energy of radar transmissions but it cannot defeat the exhaust plume generated by the aircrafts engine.
This exhaust creats air current eddies that are seen as an atmospheric disturbane. This disturbance is what the doppler radar can detect. Once this is detected you have a course, altitude and speed of the target.
In order for the system to operate you must have prior intelligence that a stealth aircraft will be in your immediate proximity.

exhaust hot air is guided and spread over the upper wingsurface to cool and to lower with a big % the "hot" signature of the aircraft (F-117 & B-2 for example)

Even though you can reduce the amount of the heat emmission you can not defeat radar detection. This detection becomes more previliant when using statelite tracking methods.

i wonder where the remains are of the F-117 that went down in yuguslavia !
anybody from yuguslavia onboard here whom can load up pix ?

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
i wonder where the remains are of the F-117 that went down in yuguslavia !
anybody from yuguslavia onboard here whom can load up pix ?

The majority of the aircraft was recovered by a SF team that was in place to perform the TRAP mission.

I am sure that whatever they recovered was destroyed after it was analyzed.

[Edited on 17/5/04 by COOL HAND]

Flycatch, your thoughts on the detection of stealth aircraft using doppler radar are incorrect.

Doppler radars are an excellent tool for analyzing atmoshperic phenomenae, but they are not very useful for detecting and tracking LO air targets. Doppler weather radars do not operate at a high enough frequency or power output that would allow them to accurately detect and track LO aircraft. And despite what you may have read, "air distubances" produced by aircraft cannot be tracked by conventional radar equipment, no matter how dense they may be. They are too transient, irregular, slow, and insubstantial to be seen by anything that could be considered a military radar system. There are doppler weather radars than can detect an measure things like wind sheer, microbursts, tornados and so forth, but we are talking about very, very large weather phenomenon displaying tremendous amounts of energy in the form of air movement, air temperature and pressure differentials. The amount of air displaced by a small aircraft like an F-117 would not even register on these radar systems.

In more practical terms, the slow-scanning arrays used by doppler weather radar sets (typically an alpha scan of 10-30 seconds) would not be able to track a LO air target, as the target would cover so much distance between scans. An F-117 moving across a battlespace would be 3-5 miles away from its last tracked position before the antenna moved around for the next sweep. How are you supposed to accurately track that?

BTW, satellite radar systems are very low frequency systems of limited power output, and the cannot accurately track large, slow moving commercial transport aircraft, nevermid LO military systems.


[Edited on 17-5-2004 by Pyros]

I didn't read into that topic but I guess what really comes up as a problem will be passive radars.

abcnews.go.com...

or just google for passive radars. For like 100 Euros everybody can detect stealth bombers