The Grey Alien Agenda MYTHOS

reply to post by Skeptical Ed


good point, there hasnt been any irrefutable evidence, although there has been evidence in some cases.

although non of that evidence points to ET life being grey

Thing is, didn't HP Lovecraft write on the NWO too? We've all heard the Illuminati have existed for centuries, what if these works of fiction were to ease us into the mentality that it will happen one day, or for this to happen? Like how in Quantum of Solace, we saw an Illuminati-type group controlling everything- if you mention it, people would say you just got that from a movie, it could never happen.

Now I'm not syaing the power of persuasion doesn't exist, just throwing this idea out there.

reply to post by Darky5K


Also a possibility, that greys do in fact exist and we are slowly being opened to the idea of their existence thought mass media.

possible also. However until we see a grey alien appear on live TV or in person i dont think it can be proven. A sound theory non-the less

reply to post by phi1618

The main underlying thing beneath all your info is trust, your trusting their stories and accounts.

im not doubting alien abduction here, im doubting the existence of greys.

When you have countless numbers of individuals (even 20% of which is still a very large number) stating the SAME THING, THE SAME MO, THE SAME CREATURES, as well as government reports of THE SAME CREATURES I think it obviously goes way past a "trust issue" here. It is logic, it is much more logical to assume that indeed the Grey aliens do exist given the frequency of reports, than it is to just place some theory with little or no evidence to back it other then pure speculation because you or whoever personally (for whatever reason) do no think the Grey aliens exist, so you attempt to place something that "sounds good" on top of the theory to make it fit. You are forcing a answer to something without doing the proper research yet.

I am the first to admit that I can not prove Greys exist, hell it could all be something mundane. However, I am also the first to admit that there is not enough evidence to rule one way or another. Based upon the available evidence we have regarding the Grey aliens, it currently seems FAR more likely that they exist rather than not. In any case, your theory does appear to make some sense when we talk about the 60 or 70% of cases that can be chalked up to mundane explanations. It is the legit cases that I am concerned about. It is those that I think for whatever reason you are trying to claim without much research into it, that you have explained the Greys away. We can NOT do that in this field.

To do something like you appear to be pushing that you have done (which is to explain the Greys) one must conduct months or years of study, this is called a longitudinal study, one must be fully aware of the details behind the cases, one must be aware of the theoretical aspects of astrobiology and astroevolution. One also must look at the probability, given the evidence available(whether circumstantial or not) of so many people encountering the same creatures, and all those creatures fitting into your theory (or anyone's that disputes the Greys being an actual entity), the probability that all those people are delusional as opposed to at least some are telling the truth and the event did happen.

Okay, so now you will move to the "aliens in disguise as Greys" right? That is all fine and good, but that theory of yours lacks even 1% of the evidence in favor of Greys actually being what they look like. So when that is taken into consideration, as well the aforementioned other reasons it quickly becomes apparent that there is still MUCH work to be done before ANYONE can go around confidently stating the Greys do or do not exist. All we can go with is the best theory based on probability and available evidence. One also needs to weigh Occam's Razor pretty heavily here, which when it is, the theory that Greys are what they appear to be is MUCH more simpler than any other theory out there for the remaining 20 or 30% of abduction cases.

reply to post by Skeptical Ed

You don't seem to understand that it is very easy to dismiss reports of aliens and, particularly, alleged alien abductions. Why? Because we have NEVER been shown any irrefutable evidence. What has been offered suffers and could never be admitted in a court of law. What we really have from the "abduction victims" is hearsay.

I think you do have an erroneous view of some cases and the proper way to investigate and use logic.

Because something has no "concrete evidence" makes it WITHOUT A DOUBT false according to you. That is a major fallacy, one must realize that ufology especially is all based on circumstantial evidence, eyewitness accounts, and probability of truth based on the available evidence. According to your premise just because you have no solid, undeniable proof that something exists you will disregard any other types of evidence or probabilities that point to it being real.

So basically you are saying that unless you see it you will claim to all that it is complete bunk right? I think your apparent paradigm is approaching dangerous levels of close mindedness and ambiguity. To automatically refute something because you have no absolute proof is nothing but a bad thing that always leads to ignorance IMHO. I really hope you can do some more research into ufology and at least remain open to the possibility before so confidently stating something as bunk. Oh and by the way, the Walton case has NEVER been proven a hoax.
ALSO: Your case is classic Sleep paralysis, it, like others mentioned in this thread, are not close to a classic abduction case.


Overall I must say it looks like some of you guys are just trying ANYTHING to discredit something, regardless of the evidence you are always sticking to your theory and paradigm without even being open to anything else. That is a slippery slope, one that is not needed in ufology or anywhere else IMHO.

Again great thread phi1618 but I think you and some others on here are trying to push theories into places where they don't fit. It appears as if you are giving answers without answering the questions.



[edit on 9/22/2009 by jkrog08]

Drive thru diagnosis is a joke and just for meds.


I've yet to meet any real psychiatrists truly interested in actual abductions. I was treated as if an abductee about 6 years ago, but that doesn't mean they were actually serious about what they were doing. Why would they have spent so much time on just playing along? ---Mind games. Which I have witnessed.

Those supposed psychiatrists I've met were just for a quick diagnosis and medications, not to prove or disprove I was actually an abductee. At that point, I was schizo regardless and didn't recall much back then anyway.

People who claim to have been kidnapped by aliens have a tendency to believe in fantasies and suffer disturbing experiences in their sleep, scientists have found. But the researchers say "abductees" also believe in their experiences so deeply that they display real stress symptoms similar to those of traumatised battlefield veterans.

www.rickross.com...

Depending on the definition of sleep disturbances, I've had few to none related to sleep paralysis or any aliens at my bedside and can't move. Sleep paralysis only happens about 6 times a year, if that and I usually know I'm trying to wake up.

Why would someone recall missing time events when they supposedly become more stable? It was more like amnesia during the manic stage or forgetting my script and lines.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by aleon1018]

As of recently there has been a lot of commotion around ATS about aliens as a result of the google logos being put up.

Yeah but the people who cause a comotion are the same ones who will film and upload a 40sec slip of an airplane under the title of "OMG PROOF".
S&F for the work you put into this.

reply to post by jkrog08


You are very right, there are many accounts.

The only theory i pose is the possibility, since no concrete evidence of grey existing that infact they are a result of conditioning imposed on everyone over the years by the mass media.

Which begs the question, who is responsible for the abductions if the above theory is correct.

yes it is possible that greys do exist and have been abducting people as a result of some sort of agreement made with the government many years ago...

but it cannot be ruled out that grey could infact be a figment of an unknowingly manipulated mind, and some other force ( be it government or other) under the guise of Grey aliens is responsible for the abductions and the trauma caused to so many innocent people.

im open to all possibilities, however the human mind is an amazing thing which has an unlimited ability to create, which is why the question of the validity of grey existence was put into question in the OP to begin with.

reply to post by phi1618

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G.r.e.y.s. and a.l.i.e.n.s.

Fear, ridicule and entertainment.

Are we a loan?

Visiting extra-terrestrials are Humans.

Solar Humans.

Face it?

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The Face on Mars, 1958 Jack Kirby Comic.

kirbymuseum.org...

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f162a46f7770.jpg[/atsimg]

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reply to post by phi1618


Here are some issues for you to resolve though... The Grays are archetypal more than they are a result of pop culture... although I will admit pop culture creates an echo chamber.


For example.... Cave drawings from Australia are filled with images like:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/44038494a1ff92e7.jpg[/atsimg]


Not to mention depictions of these types of beings in the context that has nothing to do with aliens.

In the book Journeys of the Soul a Psychologist who specializes in past life regression therapy finds that almost all subjects put under reported being met by little gray beings with " dark holes where their eyes should be" during the death process.

As it turns out, according to these subjects, the beings eventually "turned into" dead family members. They only at first appeared in this gray form.

Having had encounters with these beings/illusions/whatever myself, I can say that my experience, which I didn't require hypnosis to recall, although filled with the sensation of complete and utter terror, was not one of aliens walking into my room and scooping me up. It was one that was much more etheric... dare I say spiritual than the impression you may get from pop culture.

Anyway... the shape, color, and description of that which we call Gray Aliens today are more archetypal than anything and IMHO less to do with Beings from another planet than beings inside of yourself.

A while back, ATS member mopusvindictus presented a very compelling
theory about what the Greys are really up to.

His missive is at once chilling, but very logical...he points out the 'links' (in extreme detail)
between insects and Greys the way a detective pieces together evidence to solve a case.
After reading it I thought "OMG, those things are insects. Reptilian aliens may exist, but the greys
are insects."

mopus could publish a book on that thread alone. It's a mind-blower.


Thread

reply to post by lw2525


If that's the case then why do they show up in near death experiences only to be further recognized as dead relatives?

I don't recall any insectoid nature of the one I witnessed.

reply to post by phi1618


My simple response is as follows.

What about all the cases that include physical traces? The ones who were exposed to radiation, ionising radiation, the depressions left in the ground. Are we to discount all of this? Whilst i have never seen any evidence that we are being visited by extraterrestials, these stories cannot simply be discounted by calling people insane.

Some may well be insane, others simply had a momentary hallucination, maybe brought on by enviromental factors, some may be night terrors, well actually i think night terrors have a lot to answer for. However it does seem that something unexplained is going on.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


That proves or adds to the case of an occurrence happening. Doesnt add to the existence of greys.

Originally posted by phi1618
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

That proves or adds to the case of an occurrence happening. Doesnt add to the existence of greys.

No but if someone is exposed to a great deal of radiation and then mentions grey aliens i will give more respect to their case than someone who says they were simply in bed and were then surrounded by strange beings.

I made a thread a little while back asking if the grey alien persona was something that existed in every persons mind. The accounts of short beings with large heads and almond shaped black eyes go back thousands of years. The Australian aborigonies had rock paintings of the same exact beings.

So either it is something that our minds create naturally, due to a biological querk or they are real beings that are seen often. The problem with your opening thread was that it seems to assume that grey aliens are a modern idea, within the last few hundred years. However they are shown in rock paintings and statues long before that.



[edit on 23-9-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Here is a thread I did back in April on the feasibility of Greys. It is just a short bit on some of the scientific and witness factors in favor of them.

On The Feasibility of Grey's

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


i really dont see anything that i would take as grey.....in those cave paintings.

they looks more like spirits to me.

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Originally posted by jkrog08
"When you have countless numbers of individuals
(even 20% of which is still a very large number)
stating the SAME THING, THE SAME MO, THE SAME CREATURES, as
well as government reports of THE SAME CREATURES
I think it obviously goes way past a "trust issue" here."

...

Jkrog,

I could show you centuries of documented 'PROOF' that the earth is flat??

Countless of generations have submitted to this belief?

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About hypnosis:

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Anyone who "believes" in abduction should understand
first what is hypnosis and what it is not.

Under hypnosis people can get induced to believe
(they are) just about anything?

Go visit one of those hypno side-shows.

Those watching TV are being hypnotized by their TV set every day?

They start to 'believe' all kinds of things that are 'unreal'?

Hypnosis borders much on 'black magic.'

If you understand what is hypnosis,
you will NEVER volunteer to be hypnotized.

Even trained hypnotists, know very little, if anything,
about what they are engaging themselves with.

Statements made by people under hypnosis are NOT valid
as proof in a court of law.

Even among psychologists, the use of hypnosis
has become highly controversial,
now that we are meanwhile half a century away from the 60's.

This is 2009 folks!

The 'abduction crowd' refuses to get updated
on the insights and findings of modern psychology?

Statements made under hypnosis are considered NON-objective,
and therefore, they are treated very differently to the statements
that are made in a normal state of mind.

Hypnosis is used by psychologists only for therapy,
it is NOT used for finding 'truth'.

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/304f10f532ab.jpg[/atsimg]

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I probably shouldn't post in this thread because I have not read the entire two pages but my bad:

The Grey's are the real deal and this things written about not only the Grey's but other Species is just about right.

The best way to hide is to hide in the open the confuse.

I stand tall for all abductee's and experiencers who have been denied.................................................................

Originally posted by aleon1018

Depending on the definition of sleep disturbances, I've had few to none related to sleep paralysis or any aliens at my bedside and can't move. Sleep paralysis only happens about 6 times a year, if that and I usually know I'm trying to wake up.

[edit on 22-9-2009 by aleon1018]

You say sleep paralysis only happens roughly 6 times a year? Is that for your particular case or is that your estimation on the whole? I ask because I know for a fact that it happens to me far more and it is quite unpleasant but not in the way of abduction like format. I just know I cant move,I feel like I might suffocate,I try to scream or move and realize with mounting panic that I am absolutely powerless over my body however alert and aware my mind is. I can only attempt to stay calm and in waves of effort force myself to wake up. Which generally takes a few minutes if time can be counted equally in semi sleep state as fully concious state. I am more afraid of some form of clausterphobia then an external force. Like I'll die of suffocation rather then that I am being experimented on. It feels more like being buried in a coffin and unable to see or do or move anything and knowing it.As I said it happens much more frequently and it has been since I was a teenager. I dread falling asleep at times simply because I never know when it will occur.

The only thing this whole thread doesn't explain is what exactly the thousands of UFOS zooming around in our atmosphere actually are.

Otherwise, very good work.