Was Hitler Right?

Now you will look at the title and think that this will be another anti-semetic regime against Israel blah blah blah well no i'm asking you the question was he right in his belief that there are superior human beings who deserve to have the space to thrive and prosper, we know he went too far and went about it wrong, the destruction of anybody who wasn't ayrean i'm asking the question that if we get rid of our herd mentality and our morals is giving the few "Supermen" the space to thrive such a bad thing getting humanity out of mediocraty so the species can evolve faster and with better results just want to hear your views!! *SNIP*

Joshua Hall - Beausant91

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[edit on 21/9/2009 by Mirthful Me]

I don't think he WAS right, my friend.

I think he was terribly misguided in his attempts to alter reality. Reality is that we are different in a lot of ways, but we all bleed red, smile when are children walk for the first time and cry when someone we love is taken away from us.

One of his many mistakes, was not embracing people of other nationalities. I seriously believe that this same mistake is being played out over and over by people that are supposed to be beyond that today.

Until we realize and embrace that we ALL have the right to be here and the right to have the same chances as someone of a different color, we will fail.

In a sense, that was his biggest mistake, as it is OURS today.

reply to post by Beausant91


and who, exactly, decides what constitutes this so called superman group?

is it decided by a bunch of paranoid self-conscious folks who fear that they might not be able to compete in society, thus using the process of murder to make their path easier?

jews offer so little

those pesky handicapped people gotta go

anyone suffering from asthama is certainly not going to qualify for a master race

and on and on.

Hitler himself was rumored to have a variety of oh, so unsuperman like qualities.

He has variously been said to have suffered from irritable bowel syndrome, skin lesions, irregular heartbeat, Parkinson's disease, syphilis, and a strongly suggested addiction to methamphetamine. One film exists that shows his left hand trembling, which might suggest Parkinson's.

www.disabled-world.com...

No Hitler was very , very wrong.

reply to post by KSPigpen


Thankyou for the reply this all and well that we are all given opportunity but it can never be achieved man is too fickle the title is used to fire up that old hatred but if we stop and think for a while yes he was misguided yes he went the wrong way completley but it is the basic principle of that if a group of people are given more space they flourish quicker it is more to the viewpoint of Nietzsche that i hope humanity can swerve to have the free spirits on top the men with the stomach to move humanity forward and we may lose freedom in the process but if it provided answers, to achieve the goal of all philosophers to achieve truth to find the answers and deliver them to the world, it is once again another utopia that we can dream of.

Originally posted by VitalOverdose
No Hitler was very , very wrong.

Why it is nice to have your opinion but why if we use logic then the basic principle of which he bagan that camaign of giving the German people more space to grow and prosper that is an ideal that is logically viable i am asking you to discard your emotional agenda and use the faculty of reason and logic

Originally posted by Beausant91
for a while yes he was misguided

at what point wasn't he? when he was merely rounding up the folks who weren't the image of what he wished he was?

you are kidding, right?

and Manson was misunderstood.

reply to post by Beausant91


Whatever he said his intentions were you cant kill millions to benefit a few. Its wrong and its elitist and its evil. Thats a fact.

He was right in wanting to breed his idea of a superman.
He was wrong in thinking that he had to destroy others in the process.
He had his country where he could do this.
He was sending Jews to Palestine.
The idea of Israel was on "the drawing board" for a long time.
He didn't have to kill anyone.
Certainly he must have known that having a war would interfere with any breeding plans. And that "expansion of territory" would cause war.
Something is definitely wrong with the story as told.

reply to post by Crakeur


I am not just talking of Hitler i talk of the ideals who decides this why the men themselves the people who can survive thes hostile conditions to live amongst men to be with them to teach them but to be apart to be alienated, Nietzsche once said "Philosophy is a solitary living up high in ice and mountains" the Ubermensch was an ideal ruined by Hitler yes Hitler was wrong at the end there was no need for genocide for these people are needed in the new society the take the responsabilities of the Ubermensch or New Philosophers and give them space to work for they are not the feeble scholars of the past but men of courage strength and intelligence if you have not these factors thenyou would fail they ability is within the New Philosopher if he fails in hsi duty it would be seen and he would be sent to help deal with the rest of the commitments with the other civilians this is a crusade to finding truth, i want you to read the first part again i do not want to know of the latter ideals of Hitler as he lost the plot lost sight of what needed to be done not world domination but space and as they say "Power Corrupts but Absoloute Power Corrupts Absoloutley"

Originally posted by Beausant91
reply to post by KSPigpen

 

Thankyou for the reply this all and well that we are all given opportunity but it can never be achieved man is too fickle the title is used to fire up that old hatred but if we stop and think for a while yes he was misguided yes he went the wrong way completley but it is the basic principle of that if a group of people are given more space they flourish quicker it is more to the viewpoint of Nietzsche that i hope humanity can swerve to have the free spirits on top the men with the stomach to move humanity forward and we may lose freedom in the process but if it provided answers, to achieve the goal of all philosophers to achieve truth to find the answers and deliver them to the world, it is once again another utopia that we can dream of.

Periods are our mutual friend, my friend.

Whenever you try to elevate one group, you MUST demote the remainder. When you do that, you discount the diversity that makes the world what it is. No fancy name will ever change the meaning of ignorant hate.

If he would have left the race hate at the door, he might have stood a chance...well and if he wasn't such a strategical buffoon....and apparently one with a great distaste for reading history...

Ok, so if we forget the fact that he was filled with hate, had a napoleon complex, was not worthy of leading the tremendous army he had at his disposal and was hypocritical titty baby, then yeah, maybe he was correct...at what, I really couldn't tell you....Oh, but it think I figured it out.

The jury is still out on this one, but if he DID take cyanide and then put a bullet in his crap-filled brain, then yeah, we was correct in THAT.

He was a madman that stood on the back of a great nation and took them to hell right along with him. He seduced a people with propoganda, copulated with their nationalism and killed millions in the process of instilling his ideals on a world that was much more diverse and resilient than he grave credit for. Oh, we world of mongrels and misfits. Kicked his butt didn't we?

But seriously, what were you expecting as an answer? Ask a neo-nazi and Hitler was 'right.' Ask a sane human being and you're going to get a different answer.

If you're serious about your research and it's the validity of Hitler's misguided ideals, and not the emotions stirred up in people at the discussion of the aforementioned that you are interested in, you might want to rephrase your inquiry and start again.

Norm Chomsky said all of history's tyrants have claimed to be doing what they do in the name of good.

reply to post by Beausant91


but the men of courage and strength were the ones who endured the likes of hitler and his henchmen. Hitler was a bully. I've yet to see a man, who thinks he's superior, who wasn't that way as a result of his own pathetic insecurities. The day all men can stand up and admit to their own shortcomings, admit that, perhaps, the reason they live the way they do, work where they work, etc, is a result of their own doing and not some sinister plot perpetrated by (insert group here), is the first day towards a society I want to live in.

Until then, we're forced to live with the knowledge that there are people out there who feel that the reason they didn't get the job, the house, the wife the car etc is because the jews or blacks or hispanics or asians or indians or zetans are plotting against them.

Like I said, pathetic insecurities. Man up and stop blaming others.

Originally posted by VitalOverdose
reply to post by Beausant91

 

Whatever he said his intentions were you cant kill millions to benefit a few. Its wrong and its elitist and its evil. Thats a fact.

Look beyond emotions look beyond good and evil go beyond morality itself and only then can you find truth only then can you understand that humanity in all its decadence has faltered we must move the world forward we need not kill no that is not it at all we need people i have already said Hitgler was wrong but please listen when i say you did not give a synthetic argument you gave me a moral statement of your beliefs logic tells us that the death of those millions could open new space for human beings to prosper it is our emotional being our morals our herd mentality that tell us killing is wrong but is it? what if it is for the greater good humans have been killing each other since the dawn of time we will not stop until we find the truth or there is complete world destruction

Originally posted by Beausant91
we know he went too far and went about it wrong

Oy vey, he went to far, and went about it the wrong way? Perhaps you could inform this old mensch what would have been just far enough, and the right way.

Originally posted by Beausant91
Nietzsche once said "Philosophy is a solitary living up high in ice and mountains" the Ubermensch was an ideal ruined by Hitler yes Hitler was wrong at the end

Matzoh balls! In the end? Just when did Hitler stray? A year and a month would suffice. We did he go from enlightened to misguided in your particular brand of infinite wisdom?

reply to post by Beausant91


So i take it you wouldn't be in one of the groups that would have to be eradicated? Would you be so happy if you , your friends family and loved ones were?

You cant breed a race where everyone is exactly the same as each other. there will always be winners and losers and no man or man made system has the right to choose who lives or dies.

The he wanted to breed a super human race so he could prove he had the authority to enslave the rest of the world. It wasnt for the betterment of mankind.Hitler only had the mental ill killed so he could concentrate his resources on killing everyone else. There was a war on you know?

[edit on 21-9-2009 by VitalOverdose]

Though superman theory is quite different, I will take it in the context of bettering humanity. From a logical standpoint, he was...right to to an extent though. By this I mean, why not make ALL human beings super human or whatever? Why not raise the standard of education, make it stricter? Or why not change education so it would instead steer people to what they are actually good at. So, if a kid is good with his hands - why not develop that? If he wants to be a lecturer, forbid and make him do something with his hands like carpentry. Restructuring how we bring up kids by developing their tested potential instead of their wishes and dreams would work.

This would apply to disabled people and mentally disabled children as well in that the latter would be treated like a normal human being but the expected standards would lowered. As for a reasonably minded disabled person, treat them like a human being.

However, this does have a darker take to it as well. Criminals, in such a world now, specifically murderers would be reprogrammed to be better human beings. And if not, then give them three chances to become better through a true rehab program and NOT a barbaric prison system. If then, after sentence is done, he murders again - take him out to a field and shoot'em. Mad? Don't be. This is logical.

Reproduction would have to be maintained preferably by the government. A daily influx of information would have to be learn and substitute the mountain of complete worthless crap we allow to enter our brains on a daily basis - "(gasp!) Kanye was rude to Taylor Swift. Let's spend a week talking about, shall we?" And all human beings would have to a certain level of intelligence to steer away from that herd mentality. They would be taught to think not only critical of the world around them but of themselves, not to be egotists. Tear down that flawed ego with some humility and self-awareness. Religion would be private. No more megachurches. No more million dollar preachers talking to hard working Americans. Just keep it simple. Destroy the Vatican church and make it honest.

These are some examples.

Of course, this is all impossible and not exactly what a superman is, however, it is a good dream, but many people are simply comfortable not being informed. They are unaware of the submissive acceptance they have of the information given to them by the official media and will not listen to anything that counters it. It would mean there is a trust in the government and its policies to do what is right for society as a whole and this would mean being fair and we all know the government is not fair. Also, it is rather unnecessary to worry about the working class trying to apply this super human being theory to themselves as they are inevitably doomed to be overlooked by the government and to be used, neglected by it as well. The upper-class are also somewhat uninformed because the world works for them. Equality is a vain dream because that is not how the world works or could ever work.

The primary fallacy in Hitler's concept was in breeding.

Anyone who's been around animals knows that often, the more pure a strain, the more problems they have.

Mutts are the most congenial, most versatile, most productive of the lot. Overbreeding can certainly create a "look" but that "look" is usually bug-batty crazy.

And that's IF someone can determine what "look" they are going after.

I can look at my hand.

Five fingers.

No two alike.

And it's those differences that make it all work.

Imagine a world of all "social fingers."

We'd be helpless.

reply to post by KSPigpen


WE have a very western view on the latter Hitler the man ravaged by his own madness he was not a Ubermensch oh no he believed he was but no he did not have the grit, the stomach or the mind it is early Hitler I am intrigued in it is as you say a very broad title but in England it is late i have not slept for two days writing and research and such, i do not defend what happened in Nazi Germany i decspice the tyrannical reign of Hitler it is before the power truly took hold the earlier Hitler the man who really wanted what was best for the german people i am of German, English and swiss decent i have infornmation from all sides family members who fought agaisnt each other but what i ask is the basic principle was Hitler on the right line giving people more space to flourish and the answer through logic is, if it moves the human species forward then yes and of course there will be collateral damage but that is necessary for any great movement or structure I feel obligied to say i am no neo-nazi the holocaust is unexplainable but it is what madness drove him to i would rather have Ubermensch at least attempting to move the world forward then the pussy democratic leaders of today the puppets and the policing state of America which has become much similar to Nazi germany you are moving in the same direction recession, propoganda i mean 30 or so years ago half your secret service were ex-nazi intelligence officials, Hitler was right at first lost hsi way and fell foul of madness as have many a man but if somebody could do better then why stop them let them take the world into the next stage of Morality let us be beyond morality with only the intrest of knowledge the way to find out why we exist what are we here for all these could be answered if we gave up what we call "Democracy" pah an elective aristocracy is what it is Britian is like mini-america now your little lap dog but no The New Philosophers must come together to move humanity out of its decadence

reply to post by Jewcano


Hitler Strayed when he bacame more involved in the domination of the world rather then just an expansion project as planned, had it not been for his power hunger, i know you have a biased outlook on this and i accept that but pray take not offence at this and my infinite wisdom yes course i ask a question i spark the debate i wish to enlighten myself and others only through communication can we ever accomplish this Hitler did go too far but many other people lost ther lives german people what of Eisenhowers death camps after the war starving normal Nazi soilders saying how horrible the holocaust was and then doing the same on a smaller scale all we hear of is the jews who died more Russians died defending their lands i feel for it but it affects me not the jews again i feel for it not human life is not sacred it can be taken as quick as a flash so i feel not sadness for the dead but joy for they do not have to see the shambles ths world is now they fought for freedom but they do not get as big a mention as the genocide. Hitler was beyond forgiveness but he at first wanted a better world use logic not past bitterness of a man who ordered but did not kill remember that Hitler did not kill 6 million Jews, he merely ordered it.