Where did Cain's wife come from?, page 5

privacy

Pages: << 2 3 4 5 6 >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 12 times

reply posted on 19-9-2009 @ 11:05 PM by Aeons

I can't believe you all can't read. What you learned in your teens isn't in the text, and isn't consistent with what is.

You must start with teh underlying assumption that Adam and Eve are the first people, and then work backwards and sideways to make it work.

But if you read it without that underlying assumption, what it actually says is quite obvious.

What you learn in your teens, and what is being suggested over and over here is that people will do what ever it takes to support their inherited memes. What you learned is that you'll twist and question everything EXCEPT what you've been told. You'll twist things to fit what you've been told is the truth, rather than question the truth you've been given.

I dare you to erase any presumption from your mind, and go read the text. I dare you to stand in another's shoes and read it. Imagine reading it as a person with a Hindu background. Imagine reading it from the point of view of a Roman Legionaire brought up with the stories of Zeus. Read it as a Rabbi in a travelling caravan.

Read it for yourself.

reply posted on 19-9-2009 @ 11:27 PM by AlreadyGone

ALTHOUGH NON-TRADITIONAL, THE IDEA THAT THERE WERE TWO CREATIONS AS LITERALLY DESCRIBED IN GENESIS SEEMS TO BEST SATISFY MY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF THESE WIVES.... AND EVEN THE RACES.
ADAM AND EVE ARE JUST A MORE PRECISE DESCRIPTION TO DOCUMENT THE LINEAGE OF JESUS, BUT THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. THE BIBLE IS NOT A HISTORY BOOK , BUT A FAMILY HISTORY OF ISRAEL AND THE ARRIVAL OF JESUS.
DISCREPENCIES IN OPINIONS AND INTERPRETATION SHOULDN'T LESSEN THE IMPORTANCE OF THE OVERALL MESSAGE... THAT YOU ARE LOVED BY ONE BIGGER THAN US ALL.

reply posted on 19-9-2009 @ 11:45 PM by Agree2Disagree

I do believe that biblical texts only state that Adam and Eve were the FIRST created. It doesn't say whether or not others were created. That leaves room for Cain's wife.

A2D

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply posted on 19-9-2009 @ 11:47 PM by Alethea

There were other people already on the earth. But obviously some disaster had happened to thin the population.

Adam and Eve had been secluded in a walled garden as part of a biosphere experimental project.

In Genesis 1:28 god tells them to replenish the earth. This is your first clue that Adam and Eve were not exclusive first humans. And knowing that, it is reasonable to assume that there were others "in the wild" who were not selected for the biosphere project.

Perhaps Cain found a nice Neandertal girl.

Once again, humans are instructed to "replenish" earth after the flood. (Genesis 9:1) It does not mean that all on the earth were destroyed. That has become the wolf's interpretation of things.

reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 03:58 AM by J-in-TX

I have never given this much thought until now. This question has got me intrigued. I'll give a few of the explanations that I have found.

The classic idea is that Cain married his sister.

Genesis Rabbah states "Cain was a twin, for with him was born a girl; and Abel was one of three, for with him came two girls."

And in the Talmud Sanhedrin 58b "Come and hear! Why did not Adam marry his daughter? So that Cain should marry his sister, as it is written, For I said, the world shall be built up by grace. But otherwise, she would have been forbidden [to Cain] - Once however that it was permitted, it remained so."

As has been already been posted by kingofmd, the prohibition of marriage between brother and sister (see Lev. 18:9) was not in effect until the law was given at the time of the exodus. After that time, the practice was considered abhorrent so no mention of her is given.

Which caused me to ask myself another question. Why are any of the descendants of Cain even mentioned. I have not found any real answer. The closest thing I could find is again from Genesis Rabbah which states "Naamah, daughter of Lemech and sister to Tubalcain, was Noah's wife." As she is the last mentioned in the lineage of Cain, that is the best reason I can find for that.

There is another theory that I remember hearing, but cannot find any references for it. I think this one is silly, but I'll throw it out anyway.
It is based on Gen. 3:16 "To the woman He said, 'I shall surely increase your sorrow and your pregnancy; in pain you shall bear children. And to your husband will be your desire, and he will rule over you.'"
The idea is that without the pain of childbirth there is the possibility that she may have had an uncountable number of children. Like I said, it is goofy and nonsensical.

Those are the classic explanations. I have a somewhat different take on it. I don't take these stories as a literal fact. I look at these as an allegorical story of how things came to be. Gen 1 describes an evolutionary concept. First simple life, grasses and plants; then marine life; then terrestrial life; then humans.
Gen 3 has been given a bad rap as "The fall of man". I don't see it like that. I see the expulsion from the garden as a good thing. In the garden, they were running around naked and picking nuts and berries. Then they are kicked out and begin to wear clothes and begin agriculture. It is a great step forward to civilized life. It is a graduation from a hunter-gatherer existence to a civilized agricultural existence.

reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 01:57 PM by ColdSteel

very simple to answer. day 6 of Genesis. Genesis 1 verse 27 God created man in His own image. Male and female He created them. Genenis 2 then goes on to tell us that there was no man to cultivate the ground in verse 5. What about all those people created on day 6?
Well then the Lord your God (different then God in Genesis 1) shows up on the scene and creates Adam (Adam means blush rosy or has the ability to show blood in the face; to blush)
Adam is the start of the white race that has the ability to show blood in the face.

The word Cain also means the name of an oriental tribe. as in Kahn.

Genesis is all about genetics. To understand you must get a concordance with all the definitions of the words used in the bible.

Cain simply married one of the women created on day 6 of the creation process which was created by God or Gods, male of female of Genesis 1.

The word God in genesis 1 could be multiple Gods. the word God there simply means mighty judge or judges and is not the Lord your God or Yahweh your mighty judge.

reply posted on 20-9-2009 @ 08:10 PM by ButterCookie

reply to post by ColdSteel

Star!!

There are so many passages that conclude to mulitple Gods during creation....

reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 01:11 PM by Lichter daraus

Keep this going this very interesting stuff. I would love to add stuff but i dont really know enough about it to do so. Im learning quite a bit, I dont necessarily believe all of it but i am learning with an open mind...

PEACE!!!

reply posted on 24-9-2009 @ 11:26 PM by slymattb

The way I take it is. Adam and Eve where the first of Creation. And I believe reading that there was some type of other creations outside of the holy land. Cain either had relation with his mother or sister or one of the other creations. As God wanted his children in marriage I don't think Cain could of been with his mother. So its either his sister or the other created being that God that God didn't tell us existed.

reply posted on 6-10-2009 @ 07:30 PM by PublicDefenseCorp

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

You must be very sensitive to think that post was emotional, good thing I didn't put the word well at the beginning. You might have bursted into tears.

I don't care to read your post, I just was backing up someone else who had trouble understanding it.

Don't cry, I'm sure it was a very well thought out message, it just won't break my heart if I don't get to read it in clear text.

In your reply, you tried to "school" this poster, or even talk down to them.
However, when you've made comments such as "bursted into tears" or "I just was backing up.." then it clearly shows you not only have a very limited understanding of basic grammer, as what you should have stated was "BURST into tears", and "I was just backing up" or even "I was simply backing up..".

So in lamens terms... do not sit at your desk hiding behind a computer screen, acting high and mighty, and over intellegent, when you aren't even able to retort with proper sentence structure!

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 11:39 AM by justamomma

Some of you take the Tanakh much too literally. In Genesis 5, it says God created man and woman ... and He called *their* name Adam. Adam is, in another word, mankind. The first two people mentioned in the Bible are used as conceptual metaphors for a People. Thus, Cain finding a wife is not such a mystery.

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:32 PM by KOGDOG

Originally posted by justamomma
Some of you take the Tanakh much too literally.

So then... can we assume that the Jewish claim that "God" gave them "Israel/land" is just a metaphor and that there is no "legitimate" claim to what used to be Palestinian land?????? ; )

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 12:49 PM by ldyserenity

I would have to agree with the sibling theory here, a well, And I will tell you why, Based on even older "MYTHS OF CREATION" In the earliest religions the gods/goddesses all were hitched with their siblings. We acknowledge that their Gods/Goddesses in fact were living ancestors, for the best example the egyptian Isis/Osiris pantheon is a very good example if you sort thru all the mystical symbolism. JMO.

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 01:44 PM by texastig

Originally posted by ButterCookie
So I pose this very simple question: Where did Cain's wife come from?

Adam and Eve lived for 900 some years. They had children and their children had children, etc...
Cain most likely married one of the cousins.

Back then during that time, there wasn't a law that forbidding relations between each other.

reply posted on 11-10-2009 @ 02:12 PM by undo

the original text says he created THE ADAM. it's a race folks. the bible is only concerned with the line of the messiah, or there would be more lineages in there.

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 01:28 AM by justamomma

Originally posted by KOGDOG

Originally posted by justamomma
Some of you take the Tanakh much too literally.

So then... can we assume that the Jewish claim that "God" gave them "Israel/land" is just a metaphor and that there is no "legitimate" claim to what used to be Palestinian land?????? ; )

Many do. You are comparing apples to oranges though. The Tanakh supports evolution .. just read what is actually there. Man was formed from the dust of the earth ... Adam was the name of man AND the woman .. thus, mankind. Personally, I think it supports that the Jewish own the whole of the earth

. *teasing* I understand the issues many have .. but our People were forced from the Land and given that so many take issue with our way of worship, here is a land we BOUGHT back from those who had their stake of claim to the Land (not the palestinians) to worship our God in.

It baffles me how it escapes the attention of so many that it is the ISRAELI soldiers who protect the muslims place of worship on our temple mount ... and yet, we are the ones who aren't accomidating? Give me a break.

[edit on 12-10-2009 by justamomma]

reply posted on 12-10-2009 @ 12:53 PM by KOGDOG

reply to post by justamomma

My take on the Israel/Hebrew trip is much more....... um... hard core than ATS could handle.

Moving back on topic...

Cain and those strangers "East of Eden" who would either murder or marry him...

Absolutely right.... never take the Tanakh literally unless doing so serves your purposes/agendas.

For example.... those funky "trees" in the "Garden".... wazzup wid dat?

Do you think the "tree" might have been the "family ancestral tree of God"????

And that "forbidden fruit".......... ever hear of a "First Fruit"????

All I can say is....
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. (Eze 16:3)

reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 01:16 AM by justamomma

Originally posted by KOGDOG
reply to post by justamomma

My take on the Israel/Hebrew trip is much more....... um... hard core than ATS could handle.

Moving back on topic...

Cain and those strangers "East of Eden" who would either murder or marry him...

Absolutely right.... never take the Tanakh literally unless doing so serves your purposes/agendas.

For example.... those funky "trees" in the "Garden".... wazzup wid dat?

Do you think the "tree" might have been the "family ancestral tree of God"????

And that "forbidden fruit".......... ever hear of a "First Fruit"????

All I can say is....
Thus saith the Lord GOD unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite. (Eze 16:3)

WHAT A GREAT POST!!!

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I am being serious when I say I have enjoyed reading your thoughts here. Ezekiel 16 is one of those chapters that many Christians love to throw in our faces to say how evil we are ... and yet, are we not human? Do we not come from the same place as the rest of you? We are no more and no less special than everyone else on this planet. Just like anyone else, we were and are a People who want a land where we can exist in our way of life. That is all. From a non Jewish standpoint, I would think that the view of Ezekiel 16 would be exactly what you pointed out ... that we are only ever human like everyone else. In this sense, I find it to be one of the most beautiful chapters in our Scriptures. We don't put expectations of perfection on the world (that is the Christians) and yet, why it is expected of us to the point that we are even blamed for almost everything that goes wrong in the world is the mystery!

I personally see the tree of life being the heritage of mankind ... and now, with where we are heading for insight through science, there seems to be much truth in this. Certainly the Torah shows evolution from the very beginning! It is a beautiful writing and it is sad to me that other religions have gone and crammed it down the throats of others, even distorting the purpose for its being written. The Tanakh is NOT a book of oppression ... it just takes the educated mind to see this! It is a book of Life .... written for a People by a People .... but ultimately it *is* the Book that speaks to Life from the beginning for all of us.

Again, thank you for this insightful reply of yours ... it made me think.

[edit on 13-10-2009 by justamomma]

reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 09:50 AM by Aeons

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
I do believe that biblical texts only state that Adam and Eve were the FIRST created. It doesn't say whether or not others were created. That leaves room for Cain's wife.

A2D

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

To be specific, they were the first specifically created by Yahweh.

reply posted on 13-10-2009 @ 11:07 AM by KOGDOG

reply to post by justamomma

Ezekiel 16 is one of those chapters that many Christians love to throw in our faces to say how evil we are...

The elements of my last post could never even remotely suggest what you believe were my intentions for quoting Eze 16:3.

I personally see the tree of life being the heritage of mankind ...

Honesty really is the BEST policy when interpreting "Scripture". You might find that not everyone is "out to get you".

The Tanakh is NOT a book of oppression ... it just takes the educated mind to see this!

I will agree with part of the above...

"Education" has little to do with "insight" and "love".

Cain found a wife from a different "bloodline".

It is "The Blood" that determines one's destiny.

Another fun dose of "metaphor/symbolism"........ right????
And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
(Isa 49:26)

Pages: << 2 3 4 5 6 >> ^^TOP^^