Don't copy that floppy 2 (propaganda)

Originally posted by Grey Magic
I liked this one a lot

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/32a250cd3103.jpg[/atsimg]

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Grey Magic]

Thats awesome. Dead Kennedys are great.

Originally posted by Copernicus
reply to post by Clickfoot

 

Evolve or die. Some manage, some dont. Its the way it is.

Agreed. Supporting outdated business models is the job of the US Government and its deliciously backwards Bank Bailout, not the job of the intelligent public.

Originally posted by Trevlac

Originally posted by Copernicus
reply to post by Clickfoot

 

Evolve or die. Some manage, some dont. Its the way it is.

Agreed. Supporting outdated business models is the job of the US Government and its deliciously backwards Bank Bailout, not the job of the intelligent public.

Yes. The end result is a better world where everybody has access to a wide variety of different forms of software to express their individuality. Thats a future I want to be part of. Todays reality is a corrupt system where human beings get exploited.

I think Im a Information Age Hippie, come to think of it..


[edit on 12-9-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by Copernicus
You are not listening and/or understanding.

I am, I just think you're wrong

I do appreciate the intelligent discussion, though.

Originally posted by Copernicus
You cannot prevent copying in this technological age.

Well, there are ways, just that nobody is being smart enough about it currently.

Originally posted by Copernicus
There will be new ways to get payed for creating software in the future.

I can't see how this is going to apply to games. Which is basically what the video is about, although they've now added movies etc. to it also, it's from a software industry body. It costs a lot of time and money to produce a game these days. No 'support' is going to pay for that.

Would you say the same could be applied to movies? There's not that much difference.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Google will even release their own operating system soon - completely free and open source.

But they make all their money from advertising. Again, doesn't apply.

Originally posted by Trevlac
Agreed. Supporting outdated business models is the job of the US Government and its deliciously backwards Bank Bailout, not the job of the intelligent public.

You're missing the point I'm making entirely. Do you get paid for all those things you do, as listed in your avatar? Is that an outdated business model?

What is wrong for getting paid for working all of a sudden?

I thought Ownership was 9/10ths of the law,

then are you stealing from the person you copied the link to download from?

Honestly that video was Shallow and Pedantic...

I felt as if i was timewarped to an era where BS reigned supreme

reply to post by Clickfoot


Yes, its a good debate. Sorry for assuming you dont understand.

About trying to prevent copying: Can you give an example of what you are referring to when you say there are ways to prevent software from being copied?

About getting payed for games: Software companies are experimenting with switching over to distributing the games for free, and charging for in-game stuff such as cool weapons, gadgets and other stuff with micro charges (pay a few cents and get a cool Robe of Coolness for your WoW mage). It seems to be making good progress.

About getting payed for movies: Same way as Spotify does it with music. Allow people to stream new movies to their home entertainment centers through the web for a fixed charge. Make it easier and faster than trying to find and download the same stuff from the Internet themselfs, perhaps by offering boxes that are completely integrated into a large movie bank so they can begin streaming full HD quality video in seconds right to the TV. It will make pirated movies much more awkward and nobody will go for it anymore provided the monthly fee is low. Sell it with convenience!

Google on advertising: They do make most of their money from advertising today, but whats wrong with that? They are doing it in a nice way. No intrusive ads and stuff on their search page. They arent charging (users) for their search engine which is my point. They find other ways. Companies pay them to place ads at the top of the search results, but its only relevant ads and they are non-intrusive (most people dont even seem to notice Google has ads!) and sometimes very useful for finding what you are after.

Hopefully I have managed to at least show you my way of thought, because typing all this made my fingers hurt...



[edit on 12-9-2009 by Copernicus]

i had a nice sleep ranting silently why wont anyone reply on this important topic and when i woked up now wow,you gues are great . nice to see so many inteligent people actualy being on my side. now its time for explaining.
1* you see how the video is made,like they think were l33t crews from the 90' xa-xa-xa. afcourse its not right to buy/sell pirated stuff,i mean COME ON! who buy/sells this? its all available online,the only one who would try selling it are some poor third country folks in theyr bazaars,no offence guis
2* theyr the good guis,yet threy threaten to kidnap our mothers if we copy that floppy?
3* that guy in the end wasnt in jail as i readed in a comment,he just got busted.
4* they actualy try to control and fights us on the only ground where THEY CAN'T WIN. the internet...the place where the best hackers can't be bough with money to serve the government,where every day a smarter person is born,and where the voice of people can't be silenced by control and disinfo agents.
5**************************
here is the one example of what im talking about.
the nice folks at EA games are releasing NEED FOR SPEED SHIFT these days.
its a great new game,they really have learned by theyr mistakes it seems.
its going to have only cd-rom protection (put ur cd inside),no cdkeys.
it means every pirate with daemon tools can play it ONLINE with other people without problems.
now thats a game i would buy honoring the work of these fine men.
---------
batman arkham asylum on the other hand,although a gREAT GREAT game,got so many antipiracy triggers in it,build on the sole purpose of tormenting pirates,well thats just loosing respect of people.
thanks against the mods for not deleting this thread,im surprised .its not illegal were talking about,its the right of the people...serious discussion

reply to post by Stillalive


People think there is no way to get out of our current system so they feel there is no point discussing it. And perhaps they are not used to thinking outside the box when it comes to computers and software. Its not like the media industry is encouraging it.

But its inevitable. We have an entire generation who is growing up who are used getting whatever they want from the web in seconds for free. Business models needs to change to reflect this market. And they will. See my previous posts on how to make money from this new economy.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by Copernicus]

google adsense is terrible! you have to be a real pro to collect any type of revenue,like 100$ in a 5 months,after u have done a tremendous ad work.
most of the people just get caught cheating or quit!
its like cheap labor work!
fyi if anyone wants to debate against what i stand for cool,its about time
and the free game but payed gear/weapons is TERRIBLE idea,its like playing a demo.just think about it. its better to just pay and play the whole game.not to put every dollar in your gear..almost like wow.
thats a terrible way of stopping piracy and people will not stand for this.
blizzard is a fine example of disgusting people that should fail!

Originally posted by Copernicus
About trying to prevent copying: Can you give an example of what you are referring to when you say there are ways to prevent software to be copied?

Sega Dreamcast. It didn't use standard discs, which is a good start, and one that other manufacturers should take note of. The only reason games for that system could be copied was because for whatever reason Sega left a backdoor in the OS, allowing normal CDs to be booted if you formatted them in a certain way. No idea why they did that, stupid move Companies like this seem to assume hackers are not clever enough to find things like this. Pretty much every console hack relies on a silly hole left there by the manufacturers. They need to think more like a hacker.

Their "Naomi" arcade system, based on the same discs, does not have this backdoor, and as far as I'm aware, software for that system is still uncopyable.

Originally posted by Copernicus
About getting payed for games: Software companies are experimenting with switching over to distributing the games for free, and charging for in-game stuff such as cool weapons, gadgets and other stuff with micro charges (pay a few cents and get a cool Robe of Coolness for your WoW mage). It seems to be making good progress.

But they also charge you monthly for being online, and of course you need to pay for your internet connection. It ends up costing you much MORE. I'd rather pay a one off fee myself... Also, it only works for games like WoW, and I don't even like games like Wow

Originally posted by Copernicus
About getting payed for movies: Same way as Spotify does it with music.

Hmm. I'm not sure this system could pay for movies. It takes a lot more time and money to make a modern movie (even the cheap ones) than it does to create an album.

Originally posted by Copernicus
Google on advertising: They do make most of their money from advertising today, but whats wrong with that?

Nothing at all wrong with it. But it works for google because of what google do. You don't really want ads in your movies, etc. do you?

I don't think there's anything wrong for paying for software/movies/music. It's entertainment, and if you want it, you pay for it. I'm vocal about games at the moment because I know several people in that industry who are currently out of work because of the current state of the economy. But, these people spent many years and a lot of money studying because they wanted to do this. They don't do it to get rich (and believe me, they don't), but at the same time, everybody needs money to survive. I don't see why it's asking to much to pay for what they do.

But if you want to talk about the wrong people getting all the money, I'm all for that discussion.

theyr is a nice way to implement ads,like to put them on bilboards in citys in the game,or walls like..you get it

Copy protection at EA was getting so intrusive and draconian that paying customers were treated like pirates. Customers do not like this,

source: www.amazon.com...

And they found when they lifted their heavy hands, people who otherwise would not be customers had started to buy their games. I know I did.

Originally posted by Stillalive
batman arkham asylum on the other hand,although a gREAT GREAT game,got so many antipiracy triggers in it,build on the sole purpose of tormenting pirates,well thats just loosing respect of people.

Right, and I hate stuff like that. It annoys the crap out of the legitimate user, i.e. the person who bought the game, but the 'hacked' version has all this annoying stuff removed, so it only annoys the people who actually BOUGHT the game. They should stop doing stuff like that. I don't bother with PC games anymore because of it, I don't want stupid 'drivers' installed on my system, thanks...

[edit] I see Trevlac said a similar thing as I was typing, so star for that

Same goes for music actually. I have no problem buying CDs but I WANT to be able to play it on my computer, and I WANT to be able to rip it, so stop trying to protect them please. Again, the people who download it don't have these problems.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Clickfoot]

Originally posted by Stillalive
theyr is a nice way to implement ads,like to put them on bilboards in citys in the game,or walls like..you get it

You'd think so, but did you know the companies actually CHARGE the game makers for using their logos? I know, it's insane...

I remember the Golden Age of 1999.

Napster was new and exciting, a new ISP had popped up allowing you to get online free, and it looked as though the world was gonna have to evolve into a new economy based on making profit by other means...maybe a better means.

Then the bubble poped net zero got yanked and we are all terrorists and criminals because we "steal" from people that own ISLANDS!

I have recently begun exploring my own artistic creativity. Apparently I can write good fiction. If I ever write something good enough to get published And it came from ATS I would keep it on ATS. People will still buy books. I can download my favorite authors but I like having their books too. And for the opportunity to see my favorite band play...well as the saying goes, cash,grass , or ass I need a ticket! I have only been to one concert in my life though...and that sucks... I DID buy the hoody though! 50 bucks it cost me. I still wear it in winter and it has withstood the test of time well.

As for movies? well I would like to Sue M.Night Shamalayn for the two hours of my life he stole from me. MY GOD HIS MOVIES SUCK! All the same when a good flick comes out and I want to see it on the big screen I DO. Watching the watchmen at home is cool and all but ON THE BIG SCREEN IS SUPER COOL!!!!

We have a new medium that has been invented and like all pesky genies it wont go back into the bottle. Its called the internet. And like all great things it was invented by the system and turned out to be the systems demise. If Darrpa knew this was gonna happen I guarantee they never would of linked up the colleges. But they did and the rest is history.

I am not tech savvy. Forgive me even this, I run on Windows XP and surf firefox . I know I should upgrade my OS and what not ...and eventually my lazy but will but today I am still a sloth. All the same even a lazy idiot like myself can see that the corporate structure of entertainment profits are gonna have to change as the system of distribution has changed.

Sure folks should get paid for their work. This I feel as true. But to charge 1000 or 10,000 percent above cost is not getting paid, Thats price gouging.

And for the record that 50 dollar hoody was not overly priced... for what I put it through and how well it has withstood my wear and tear it was worth every penny even if it were not a concert hoody.

Well Those are my thoughts on it.

I hope the new economy blooms soon.

Edit to add funny thought

The OP links us too anti piracy commercials that have been uploaded to Youtube. Does this not mean that the anti piracy commercials have been pirated or reproduced with out expressed consent?

Beware of youtube!!!! BWAAAAA

[edit on 12-9-2009 by titorite]

xxaxa yea i guess in most cases,btw do you know how akward was the batman protection,every grappling shaft missed the grapple icon,and u grappled into black oblivion under the island,and in one end the game stopped proceeding,just before ivy

Originally posted by titorite
Sure folks should get paid for their work. This I feel as true. But to charge 1000 or 10,000 percent above cost is not getting paid, Thats price gouging.

To what are you refering here? Give us an example.

[edit] oh yeah, I always thought this one was amusing:



"You wouldn't steal a car" - yeah, tell that to the people that do

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Clickfoot]

reply to post by Clickfoot


They have tried thinking like hackers and they have come up with several systems for copy protection. But if its possible to create, its possible to crack. Its in the nature of the beast. Sure, you can try and lock people into certain formats so they have to pay, but in the end they will want to move away from that platform and find another one. It opens the doors wide open for competitors. Google is a excellent example actually once again... they gave people exactly what they wanted in a search engine and nobody else had a chance to compete with them. I dont know how old you are, but before Google you had AltaVista and other search engines where you would have intrusive ads and other annoyances all over the place. Googles clean home page was a oasis in a web that was getting more and more annoying for its users. Why didnt AltaVista do this in the first place? They couldnt figure out a way to get payed. Google did. See what I mean?

About being charged for being online, yes, today it works like that because consumers depend on their ISP's and have no other choice to get on the Internet. There will be alternatives in the future where you can buy a access card and get onto the net wirelessly from anywhere using any numbers of providers. Internet access will be dirt cheap.

About movies, I think 100% of movie buffs paying a monthly fee for viewing the movie at home will be a great success. Costs for distribution is very cheap, specially if they do it with peer to peer technology, and since everything is copies, they can distribute the same movie and charge for it over and over and over and over again....

Ads in movies: Nope. And there wont be, because people wont accept it. Its exactly that sort of stuff that makes people go for pirated versions instead, free of commercials and other annoying stuff. Give the consumer what he wants. The golden rule.

I can imagine people being out of work, because we are experiencing a system shift. We are going from old to new. Your friends should adapt to the new reality instead of giving up. If companies like Spotify can come in and be successful, so can they. They just need to find a way. Its difficult but it can and will be done by future companies. Or they wont survive. Sorry, but thats the way it is with capitalism.


[edit on 12-9-2009 by Copernicus]

were talking about overpriced games,games like 70$ in countrys like bulgaria where the months salary is 400-500$