Obama: 'If you misrepresent what's in the plan, we will call you out'

This is the Only thing in the bill that mentions anything about govt. payments to undocumented aliens/illegals.
You will notice that it is Quite Specific as to the "Affordability Credits."
So it is very vague as to weather the Govt. Will pay for illegals in other programs mentioned in the bill’s.
So far this same section, in the same language is in the two House Amendments. The Education and Labor Markup is not yet available but I would be willing to guess it is in there also.

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

reply to post by Iseekthetruth!!!!!!!!


Just curious but is "undocumented" clarified?
What kind of documentation?

A letter of employment?
A library card?
A phone bill?

IMO the term needs clarification

That is a Very Good question!
Everything in this/these dam thing/things it toooooo vague. So much bull it is hard to get to all the Truth.
I have had to go to the IRS to look up acts that are refered to.
I have had to go to the Health care act to look up portions of these bills that are refered to. I think there are more but at the moment I can't remember.
I have been doing nothing for weeks but looking at this "Health Care Reform" bill/bills.
While Obamanation made it sound so good, there were just to many inconsistencies that I found it laughable. Well it would be if there weren't so many people out there that actually believe what he say's.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Doc Velocity

 

Well with your big letters I guess you will get through some people because my nice way of posting (I think) doesn't that is what I am telling everybody, Mandatory health care is nothing but a big power grab.

At least I used how the car insurance work that was nothing but a power grab when it was passed.

But many never understand what mandatory is, until it comes knocking their doors.

This no by any chance regulating the private health insurance but giving them power over the tax payer

[edit on 10-9-2009 by marg6043]

I understand your qualms. I think it would be very easy for the insurance companies to gouge people who are required by law to have health insurance.

That is why the Democrats want the public option -- a low cost, government-sponsored program that can offer cheaper prices and cover more conditions because it won't be run for profit. The insurance companies would have to compete with the public option and would have to keep their costs down and cover more conditions in order to compete.

Japan and a few other countries have mandatory health insurance for everyone at affordable rates and the people are very satisfied with their system. It has worked in other parts of the world.

Originally posted by Sestias
Japan and a few other countries have mandatory health insurance for everyone at affordable rates and the people are very satisfied with their system. It has worked in other parts of the world.

Propaganda.

In point of fact, the Japanese nationalized healthcare system is already in trouble and is considered "unsustainable"... Within 10 years, the Japanese system will cost as much as the American private healthcare system costs today! And Japan has less than half our population!

So much for the elusive Utopian healthcare.

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 9/10/2009 by Doc Velocity]

Well guess what if you want to get down to brass tax everyone of you who are pointing fingers and wanting and hating this is reaping all the years you have voted in capitalistic political corruption from the right and special interest corruption from the left. Its all of you guys who bear the out come. So I say waller in your own mess you voted the same Republicans in office who was tied to the big banks who in vested capital into the big pharma companies and the same applies to those who have been voting in the same Democrats who want to uniform government control over every thing. Its all of your faults you guys keep voting these crooks in office so suck it up and stop bitching about the mess the only two political parties have cause

The bill is not meant to be understood completely until it is passed and they reveal the details.
Interpretation can be argued till the cows come home by design while they push it through.

All you people have to do is talk to any veteran of war who is taken care of by the VA and he will tell you hellish tales of how the VA treats veterans. The government that is. Please talk to any VA about government health care. It sucks horribly!!!!!!

You will never be able to pick your doctors....and many of the good doctors will retire seeing how their incomes will be fixed. They will be replaced by the docs who barely made it through med school. Think of them as body mechanics. You will be ushered into med facilities diagnosed and sent away with whatever they determine to be a solution. There will be no "second opinions". People will be treated like cattle. Take a number, wait your turn....

As is now, if you are a poor minority living in Baltimore city, if you show up in a hospital with NO health insurance, you are automatically given "States Assistance". What does that mean? That means you don't pay a red cent. The tax payers of Baltimore foot your bill. I have a sister who's a nurse in Shock Trauma and according to her every single solitary minority without health insurance that comes into Shock Trauma WILL have all their bills paid by States Assistance (my tax money). So in essence, we already have government health care as far as I am concerned.

Obama simply wants to "level the playing field". He wants the poor who somehow have not managed to get a job and land insurance to be treated like the man who works his butt off and secures a job to HAVE insurance. He wants to spread the wealth........that's NOT what this country is about. This is NOT a socialist or communist country or have you forgotten that people???? What has happened to the spirit of this country??????
I say Buck Ofama!!!!



[edit on 10-9-2009 by rocknroll]

Originally posted by warrenb
reply to post by Iseekthetruth!!!!!!!!

 

Just curious but is "undocumented" clarified?
What kind of documentation?

A letter of employment?
A library card?
A phone bill?

IMO the term needs clarification

'Undocumented' is PC for illegal alien.

reply to post by Mak Manto

With a non-profit organization, this would be a good thing.

No non-profit will be able to continue to do business if it continually LOSES money.

Tell me how much money Medicare, Medicaid, VA health, the U.S.P.S. or
the Social Security Administration MADE (i.e., profitted) over the last 10 years. (Quick answer: NOTHING!)

Insurance companies are bad, seeing much of the money they take out is for profit alone.

Please tell me how "much of the money" is ins. co. profit.

(If you were to look, you'd see that their margins are NOT as large as many other companies. BUT, it is easy for the brainless to cry out about 'huge profits.')

How much of a nurse's income should she be allowed to keep as "profit?" A janitor? A teacher? A doctor?
How much of what YOU earn is "profit?"

Why don't you give it back?

Face it. The gov't will give you a stipend to cover your food and housing.

Why don't you give ALL of your earnings to the government, since "much of the money [you] take out is for profit alone?"

OK, so now, tell us: How much of the insurance companies' revenue do they "take out as profit?"

If you don't know, then you should stay out of grownups discussions of these things.

Deny ignorance!

jw

[edit on 11-9-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Mak Manto

 

Insurance companies are bad, seeing much of the money they take out is for profit alone.

Please tell me how "much of the money" is ins. co. profit.

(If you were to look, you'd see that their margins are NOT as large as many other companies. BUT, it is easy for the brainless to cry out about 'huge profits.')

This is used as an example because net profits has continually gone up, executive pay
has gone up and rates have gone up.

On the Delivery side pay rates have leveled off or have not kept pace with the cost of living.

At the end of the day I am not going to cry for the executives or investors who do not deal in good faith with their monopoly and power.

reply to post by Sestias

Japan and a few other countries have mandatory health insurance for everyone at affordable rates and the people are very satisfied with their system.

Really?

Many health-care economists say Japan's low-cost system is probably not sustainable without significant change.
To keep costs down, Japan has made tradeoffs in other areas -- sometimes to the detriment of patients. Some are merely irritating, such as routine hour-long waits before doctor appointments. But others involve worrisome questions about quality control and gaps in treatment for urgent care.
Japanese hospitals experience a "crowding out" effect, with space for emergency care and serious medical conditions sometimes overwhelmed by a flood of patients seeking routine treatment.
The government has largely been unable to reduce the length of hospital stays, which are four times as long in Japan as in the United States. Hospital doctors are often overworked and cannot hone specialized life-saving skills. Statistics show that the Japanese are much less likely to have heart attacks than people in the United States, but that when they do, their chance of dying is twice as high.
There are shortages of obstetricians, anesthesiologists and emergency room specialists because of relatively low pay, long hours and high stress at many hospitals, doctors and health-care analysts said. Emergency room service is often spotty, as ER beds in many hospitals are limited and diagnostic expertise is sometimes lacking.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Now, what were you saying?

What "other countries" were you referring to WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE of the facts?

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by mental modulator

This is used as an example because net profits has continually gone up, executive pay has gone up and rates have gone up.

On the Delivery side pay rates have leveled off or have not kept pace with the cost of living.

Please give me "an example" of continual increases in profits. You can't because IT IS A LIE.

Please give examples of rates that "have levelled off or not kept pace."
You can't, because IT IS A LIE!

I am no defender of insurance. I am a defender of HONEST debate.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


Anyhow why are you guys still going on about a complete take over of healthcare?

I would say if anything Obama pissed off many liberals last night, with keeping the structure safely intact.

BTW the only people who will be eligible for the public option will be those who document
"hardship" or those who are not OFFERED any sort of plan by their employers.
Even at this point, the people who are Eligible still get to pick what style of plan they want.


I would say you conservatives have won a mighty battle from the brink of what you are still on about now.

Originally posted by mental modulator
BTW the only people who will be eligible for the public option will be those who document
"hardship" or those who are not OFFERED any sort of plan by their employers.

And what you DO NOT seem to understand is that eventually all employers will see it cheaper to dump their insurance plans and let the government healthcare pic up the tab. Can you not see this happening? I can. I've been working long enough, and changed so many insurance companies to know that companies WILL dump their plans and opt for the cheaper out: government healthcare.........and TPTB know this. It's the blind Obama loving public that can't see this........oh, but they will if it passes. And the American people will be so sorry that let it happen.......and there will be NO turning back.

reply to post by rocknroll


Excellent and very accurate post, for the most part. Thanks for the
information on how the poor in Baltimore get instant health coverage
from state Medicaid the moment they walk into the Emergency Room.
This is how it works in most states.

I must differ with you a bit on the VA though. I am a disabled veteran
who also has private health insurance. I use the VA for minor exams
and my hearing aids. They are great for basic care and for getting
prescriptions at very low cost.

But, there's no way I would want them taking care of me if I needed
an operation, or hospitalization. Without going into details of the
horror stories shared with me by fellow vets, I'll just sum it up like this...

The government doesn't pay enough to attract the best medical people.
Therefore, the quality of care is lower, which means that you stand
a better chance of having something "botched" during your treatment.
Government medical doctors also enjoy the ultimate in Tort Reform.
They cannot be sued by patients or families of dead former patients.

I had a group of VA doctors experimenting on me like what you'd
see in a Frankenstein movie. I left the hospital out a rear door and
went home to heal myself. If these guys had killed me, there wouldn't
have been anything my family could have done to investigate the
circumstances, or sue anyone if by some long shot, it was proven
that malpractice had occured.

The final healthcare reform plan will likely contain billions of dollars
in cuts to physicians and hospitals for services they render to those
who are on Medicare. If you add in Tort Reform that severly limits
the amount of money that can be recovered in the event of malpractice,
we just might have the Veterans Administration mindset becoming
very common within the private sector.
-cwm

reply to post by rocknroll


Our health insurance sales to small businesses and the un-insured are
at a stand-still right now.

Small businesses are sticking with their current health insurance in the
hope that they'll be able to off-load the employees to an employee owned
insurance plan that the government subsidizes. This will be available
years ahead of the Government Insurance. (Public Option)

Those who are uninsured by choice are staying that way because they
know that they'll be able to sign up for private coverage the moment they
get sick or injured. All pre-existing conditions will be covered immediately.
After their $80,000 surgery and rehab, they'll cancel the policy.

The public is already thinking of ways to milk the new healthcare system
that President Obama is touting and will sign into law this Fall/Winter.
-cwm