Haunting face crying a river of tears as glacier melts into the sea, page 6

reply to post by obilesk

---

Please someone tell me where the summer has been cool and how do I move there? I feel like I'm living in the Sahara for the past six years.

reply to post by Sashromi

CO2 levels not a concern? Its a by-product of formerly innert items. Prove me wrong, and go suck on a tail pipe for a few hours, breath in the smoke of a forrest fire, or eat the ashes of my Labor Day BBQ.

Sucking on a tailpipe for a few hours means you breath in carbon monoxide and sulfur dioxide, both hazardous chemicals which do not occur in large numbers in nature. The dangers have nothing to do with the CO2 levels you are breathing.

Breathing the smoke of a forest fire means you are breathing in a lot of charcoal ash that tends to stick in the lungs and cause excessive and acute irritation. Again, the smoke does not contain an excessive amount of carbon dioxide.

Eating the ashes of your Labor Day BBQ will introduce absolutely NO CO2 into your body. Instead you will be ingesting several different chemicals, most of which are added to the charcoal as flavor or accelerants. Ash contains absolutely no carbon dioxide.

CO2 is a colorless gas that is produced any time carbon is oxidized in an excess of oxygen (this includes the metabolism of food in animals). It is the compound that allows photosynthesis to occur (translation: plants to live), liberating oxygen. The atmospheric concentration as of March 2009 (according to Wikipedia) was 387 parts per million, or 0.0387%. The toxin threshold for humans is along the order of 5000 parts per million, or 0.5%.

This is precisely why I tend to jump into these threads. You are complaining about smog, sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, and chemical ash, yet you are advocating restricting carbon dioxide. There is a difference!

Please, just look at that Wiki link. It won't take long to scan through it, and you will sound a LOT less ignorant when you debate the subject. This just ain't advanced chemistry we're talking about; it's second-grade science class.

TheRedneck


[edit on 9/5/2009 by TheRedneck]

reply to post by TheRedneck

---

Redneck, Thanks for the link to the Wikipedia. The article on CO2 was indeed informative and I did in fact learn a few new items. However, I respectfully suggest that you should do a little reading of your own on the link you recommended.

From the link you provided: “Carbon dioxide is produced mainly from six processes… including among others from combustion of fossil fuels and wood.”

Based on this information I think my analogy of tailpipes and forrest fires have basis. In fact, auto-exhaust has numerous by-products of combustion of which both CO and CO2 are included. Please see this link:
Car Emissions

The BBQ ash…. O well maybe you got me there, maybe I just got caught up in the spirit of the weekend.

However, these are all trivial matters in the overall scheme of the issue. The bald fact of the issue is that mankind is destroying the climatic and environmental status quo with our 19th century technologies. I have no doubt that the earth’s procession and sun cycles have something to do with it as well. However, why do you want to throw gas on the fire?

reply to post by A Fortiori

---

Sure anywhere in the MO northern AR. This summer was the coolest I can remember.

reply to post by Sashromi

From the link you provided: “Carbon dioxide is produced mainly from six processes… including among others from combustion of fossil fuels and wood.”

No disagreement there; combustion of any compound containing carbon in an excess of oxygen will lead to the formation of carbon dioxide. Thus, there is carbon dioxide produced when hydrocarbon fuels (gasoline, diesel fuel, heating oil) or wood (actually any orgabic matter) is burned.

However, in order to get to that toxicity level of 5000 ppmv, it would take a LOT of fuels or wood to be burned. Possibly that amount could be achieved with engine exhaust, but definitely not with a wood fire. Should the level rise to that point, it would slow the burning process by displacing oxygen.

But let's take a look at some of the other things you would be breathing:

• Gasoline vapors - including the dreaded Benzene. These are indeed toxic primarily due to their irritative effects on the mucous membranes and their tendency to combine with ionic compounds in the body, forming unwanted chemicals.
  
  
• Carbon monoxide - technically not poisonous, but rather an asphyxiant. It tends to mimic oxygen in the lungs and can attach itself to hemoglobin, but it doesn't really want to let go like oxygen does. So the victim suffocates to death from an inability of their bloodstream to supply oxygen.
  
  
• Sulfur dioxide - a deadly poison that tends to transform into sulfuric acid when in the presence of water, oxygen, and UV radiation. Ironically, all that is in the air we breath. Can anyone say 'acid rain'?
  
  
• Nitrates - the basis for smog. That's what you see hanging over Los Angeles.
  
  
• Ozone - normally harmless in small quantities, it is the responsible party for both the fresh smell after a thunderstorm and the sharp biting smell after a close lightning strike. I understand Sharper Image is selling units that are designed to produce ozone in the home, to make it smell better.
  
  
• Soot - The all-time favorite of chimney sweeps everywhere. It is also a large part of that LA smog, but it at least tends to wash out of the air easily. It is basically small clumps of unburned solids, mainly carbon.

It would appear to me that if you were sucking on an exhaust pipe, a little carbon dioxide would be the least of your worries. From Wikipedia again:

Amounts above 5,000 ppm are considered very unhealthy, and those above about 50,000 ppm (equal to 5% by volume) are considered dangerous to animal life.

5000 ppmv is about 12.5 times the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. So if we increase the amount of CO2 by a factor of 12500%, some people will start getting headaches. Increase that another 10-fold, a total of 125,000% and it will start becoming life-threatening.

You know, they say water is good for you, but I also know too much can lead to drowning.

The bald fact of the issue is that mankind is destroying the climatic and environmental status quo with our 19th century technologies. I have no doubt that the earth’s procession and sun cycles have something to do with it as well. However, why do you want to throw gas on the fire?

Because we need more carbon dioxide!

No, seriously, there are plenty of things we can do to make the environment cleaner and easier on us. It's just that society seems to want to forget about the real dangers and instead focus on a minor condition that isn't that dangerous and is extremely difficult (if not downright impossible) to correct.

Let's talk about not dumping sewage into rivers. Let's talk about not dumping litter in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Let's talk about increasing efficiency so cars will burn cleaner and use less gasoline to boot. Let's talk about regulating industrial wastes like HCl or SO2. Let's talk about minimalizing the amount of packaging being used for products, sometimes more than the product itself. Heck, let's talk about building a scrubber to clean the air and make it better instead of just not much worse. I'll side with you on these issues, and fight tooth and nail for them.

What I will not do is lie to myself and others when someone with a lot of money to spend and a lot more to make decides to make it by lying to the public about a chemical compound that has existed in our atmosphere since life began.

TheRedneck

reply to post by BluePillOrRedPill

---

The main difference is that you can't help a volcano erupting, while it is possible to stop emitting that much pollution.

Lake Vostok Antarctica: breakthrough imminent.
  Posted 11 days ago with 176 member flags

Sky Sounds 1/25/2012 Atlanta, GA Personal Video/Audio
  Posted 18 days ago with 146 member flags

Strange sounds warn us of incoming, and very soon...
  Posted 7 days ago with 135 member flags

Volcano in Iceland Erupting Alongside The Aurora Borealis (pics)
  Posted 7 days ago with 121 member flags

6 of the oldest trees from around the world.
  Posted 11 days ago with 108 member flags

West Coast USA: Pay Attention, Cascadia May Be Ready to Rupture
  Posted 9 days ago with 87 member flags

CONFIRMED: Global Warming \'Ended 15 Years Ago\'
  Posted 14 days ago with 75 member flags

Pictures from the Aurora lightshow
  Posted 19 days ago with 73 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: