President gets flu briefing, hosts Ramadan

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by KSPigpen

 

You know, if Hussein wants to host a Ramadan thing, and Easter thing, A Passover thing in HIS BORROWED portion of the whitehouse, that should be fine.

You just showed your (ignorant) hand

How enlightened of you. Your mother must be proud. Why don't you read the whole thread before calling names? If you go back about ten or twelve posts, you will see that has already been discussed. I'm not trying to play poker.

His Names Barrack Obama,
Not Hussein.

Its clear your agenda.

Bush Hosts Traditional Ramadan Dinner at White House

President Bush welcomed Muslim leaders to the White House Thursday evening for an Iftaar dinner breaking the fast during the holy month of Ramadan. VOA White House Correspondent Scott Stearns has the story.

www.voanews.com...

Presidents host all sorts of foreign religious dinners.

Jewish.
Muslim, just to name 2.

But, in your mind, Obama doing the same CLEARLY demonstrates a Muslim mentality, which is why you chose to call him Hussein, because you believe it boosts your agenda of slandering him!


:den:

P.S My Mother is proud, i can accept someone no matter what his religion.


[edit on 1-9-2009 by Agit8dChop]

Originally posted by KSPigpen
With underlying dogma, is it EVER possible to accept each other as brothers?

Honestly, not being a religious person myself, I can't speak for them at all, but I know I've seen and known some VERY tolerant, inclusive, wonderfully open-minded people of different faiths. From what I understand, it comes down to the phrase, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and what that REALLY means. My mother was a VERY strong Christian. It wasn't just the center of her life, it WAS her life. And she taught me how important it is to BACK OFF judgment. Because only in non-judgment can people accept each other and live together, even though they have very different beliefs. I honor my mother and her faith, and wish more people were like her.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
His Names Barrack Obama,
Not Hussein.

Its clear your agenda.

Bush Hosts Traditional Ramadan Dinner at White House

President Bush welcomed Muslim leaders to the White House Thursday evening for an Iftaar dinner breaking the fast during the holy month of Ramadan. VOA White House Correspondent Scott Stearns has the story.

www.voanews.com...

Presidents host all sorts of foreign religious dinners.

Jewish.
Muslim, just to name 2.

But, in your mind, Obama doing the same CLEARLY demonstrates a Muslim mentality, which is why you chose to call him Hussein, because you believe it boosts your agenda of slandering him!


:den:

P.S My Mother is proud, i can accept someone no matter what his religion.


[edit on 1-9-2009 by Agit8dChop]

Whatever.

I apologize for bringing 'yo momma' into this. It's no her fault, I know. I'm sure she IS proud, and probably for good reason.

If you found that Bush hosted a Ramadan festivity, then Yay Bush! That really surprises me, because I didn't know there was anyone more bigoted or close minded in the universe, except maybe myself.

If you feel I'm slandering Barrak Hussein Obama then that is certainly an opinion you are entitled to, however unwarranted I may feel it is. I would hope that if you make claims of illegality on my part, you can substantiate them. People are often referred to by their middle names. Happens all the time. If you take offense to his name, perhaps you should dig into the reasons that it upsets you so.

This isn't about Obama vs. Bush. It's about perceptions. I have been wrong at least three times in my life. I have been guilty of having the wrong perception, inadequate understanding, and yes, even ignorance. Is the shattering of that not the point of these forums?

So, we have determined that Bush hosted Ramadan, that Obama has the 'right' to host whatever he wants in his borrowed portion of our whitehouse and that I have an 'agenda' to slander the president.

I really couldn't care much less about what you perceive to be going on in 'my mind.' To assume that you now, or could ever KNOW me is extremely arrogant, and given your tenure, I'm a little shocked that you would be so shallow in that regard.

If we are not all willing to examine our perceptions and see where we may be wrong, there really is no use in continuing the frantic spin around this rock. I admit my human failings and my unfounded prejudices. I need places like this, and dare I say, people like you, to force me to examine my programming.

So, have we nailed down Obama's true religious beliefs yet? If he IS actually a Muslim, does that not make him a hypocrite and a liar for pretending to be a Christian?

Can a Muslim convert to Christianity without fear of reprisal from other Muslims? Cuz, that's not what I thought. (but I've been wrong before)

Originally posted by KSPigpen
So, have we nailed down Obama's true religious beliefs yet? If he IS actually a Muslim, does that not make him a hypocrite and a liar for pretending to be a Christian?

Why anyone thinks he's a Muslim, I don't know. He's a Christian and has attended a Christian church for over 20 years. He was married and his children were baptized in a Christian church.

And if he were a Muslim, as he said as much, I wouldn't think any differently about him.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by KSPigpen
So, have we nailed down Obama's true religious beliefs yet? If he IS actually a Muslim, does that not make him a hypocrite and a liar for pretending to be a Christian?

Why anyone thinks he's a Muslim, I don't know. He's a Christian and has attended a Christian church for over 20 years. He was married and his children were baptized in a Christian church.

And if he were a Muslim, as he said as much, I wouldn't think any differently about him.

So....who do we believe?

We're left at that sticky spot, huh?

If he SAID he were a Muslim, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. But if he said he was a Christian and was actually a Muslim, I would have a really BIG problem with that. That would be dishonest.

U.S. Veteran Dispatch

Independent columnist, Andy Martin (Out2.com) says he believes Obama is a political fraud who "lied to the American people."

Martin says Obama may be a threat to the Jewish community because he is a closet Muslim.

Israeli Insider

Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."

Yet the accumulated research from primary sources who knew Obama from his childhood indicate that he was a devout Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim, the step-son of a devout Muslim and the grandson and namesake ("Hussein") of a devout Muslim. He was registered in school as a Muslim and demonstrated his ability to chant praise to Allah in impressive Arab-accented tones even as an adult. Just as he has not disavowed his "uncle" Jeremiah, neither has he disavowed his Muslim faith that he was born into, raised with, celebrated and never abandoned. He just covered it over with a thin veneer of his own self-styled "Christianity."

Blogs.telegraph.. .

Petrified of the potential political fallout of being branded a Muslim, Candidate Obama - a practicing Christian - never used the name “Hussein” and its use was frowned upon as a forbidden code for the nutty accusation that he was some kind of Islamic Manchurian candidate.
No more. To say Barack Hussein Obama - BHO for short - now appears to be the height of political correctness.
As I argue in this analysis for the Telegraph dead tree edition, Obama is seeking to return to a Middle East policy based on realism - buttressed by the bona fides of his own multi-cultural (including Muslim) background.
In Strasbourg two months ago, the president tried out his full name. Days later in Ankara, he was introduced to the Turkish parliament by his full name.

You see how easy it is to be lead to a conclusion, right or wrong....do we just believe the president because presidents never lie? Or maybe I should just believe YOU because your dog avatar is so trustworthy?

Should I listen to my 'gut?' because my gut says I need to run away and FAST, because something just isn't right.





[edit on 1-9-2009 by KSPigpen]

Originally posted by ninecrimes
Is it just me, or does it seem like all Obama has done since he's gotten into office is vacation, celebrate, drink beer and play golf?

Must be nice...

That is what they said about Bush, and about the one before that one, and the one before that one. You Americans, stop whining on every little thing out there. For god sakes you guys are dying from fatness and still complaining and suing Mc Donalds for it. WTF I feel like screaming but I can't.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by KSPigpen
With underlying dogma, is it EVER possible to accept each other as brothers?

Honestly, not being a religious person myself, I can't speak for them at all, but I know I've seen and known some VERY tolerant, inclusive, wonderfully open-minded people of different faiths. From what I understand, it comes down to the phrase, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and what that REALLY means. My mother was a VERY strong Christian. It wasn't just the center of her life, it WAS her life. And she taught me how important it is to BACK OFF judgment. Because only in non-judgment can people accept each other and live together, even though they have very different beliefs. I honor my mother and her faith, and wish more people were like her.

I'm not convinced that 'backing off' of judgement is even possible. It sure SOUNDS cozy, but is it REAL?

Yeah, that there bible thing talks about not judging each other and loving each other and all that warm, fluffy stuff, and I bet there might even be something similar in Islamic texts.

But, 'all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.' So even the bible knows we can never live up to what is expected of us.

The bible is very specific about what it takes to enter 'heaven' as I'm sure the Muslim equivalent is as well. If A muslim does not accept the teachings of Christ and be 'born again.' then according to the bible, he's not gettin in.
And this really speaks for itself:
Those who reject Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), We shall gradually seize them with punishment in ways they perceive not. (182)

If a Christian does not approve of Muslim teachings and vice versa, how can there EVER be equality? Although we can agree to allow them to worship however they want, they will always be beneath us, because they don't believe in God, or Allah, or Buddha, the way that WE do...so they are destined for hell. if they are destined for hell, then aren't pleasantries, like tolerance and acceptance just a waste of time? Why put out the effort?


This has probably gone WAY off the path of where it started, but I have no problem with that at all. I welcome you guys' input, because I like learning how shallow I am sometimes.

I just think it really sounds good, but the reality of it is a very different thing. We can assert our tolerance and acceptance, but that doesn't make it so.

reply to post by KSPigpen


I get what your saying about dishonesty. Some people on this site seem to think it is ok when someone lies... I don't quite get that mentality, but more power to them. I do remember seeing a news segment back in the Bush era, where they said that the white house would no longer be sending out cards with the words 'Merry Christmas' on it because it was supposedly 'offensive' to some people, so now all the cards say is 'Happy Holidays'.

Chrono

Originally posted by KSPigpen
So....who do we believe?

That's an individual choice each person has to make. I have no reason not to believe his stated religion. Maybe it's because I don't care what his religion is... Maybe it's because there are so many outlandish and derogatory stories circulating about him that have been totally debunked, yet people continue to believe them because it serves their agenda... that I don't want to waste my time with these petty accusations. I don't know. But I'm sorry, I cannot help you with your beliefs nor tell you who to believe.

You see how easy it is to be lead to a conclusion, right or wrong....

Well, no. I have read just about everything about Obama being a "secret Muslim" and I don't believe it... So it's only easy to be "led" to believe if that's what one WANTS to believe. I believe in evidence. I have seen no compelling evidence to believe that he's a "secret Muslim".

Or maybe I should just believe YOU because your dog avatar is so trustworthy?

That he is. But you need to sort out your own beliefs and then have the guts to express them and not pretend that you haven't decided yet. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by KSPigpen
If a Christian does not approve of Muslim teachings and vice versa, how can there EVER be equality?

If you don't understand that, again, I can't help you.

Why put out the effort?

Why put effort into anything? Because of the rewards, of course.

I just think it really sounds good, but the reality of it is a very different thing. We can assert our tolerance and acceptance, but that doesn't make it so.

If it's something that you "assert", then you don't understand what it is. But acceptance is not a fantasy. It's very real and quite easy, once you know how. Millions of people do it. Millions of people live it. Some people just don't know how and aren't really willing to do it.

That he is. But you need to sort out your own beliefs and then have the guts to express them and not pretend that you haven't decided yet. Just my opinion.

Someone is a coward if they don't approach an issue with the conviction that you possess? I don't have 'guts' if I haven't decided something yet? I'm 'pretending' to have not decided something yet? For such a short sentence, you make a host of amateur assumptions that bely your own lack of tolerance, acceptance and love for your fellow man. You preach a fair game, but have some apparent difficulties walking the path you would require of others. By labeling someone, we're able to forget about the things in us that don't meet our OWN expectations.

I will GIVE you that there is a certain amount of 'pretend' in everyone, in everything we do and if we have, any of us, decided we know what the answers are to just about anything, we're a pretty arrogant sack of self-importance. To pretend you are any more 'convicted' in your beliefs than someone else, is in itself a crime against you. To thine own self be true, my friend. If you are completely content that your beliefs are correct, and need no further evolution, perhaps you have no reason to exist on this nursery and should go join your god as his advisor.

It should be quite obvious, if you've been following along, that I AM fairly sure of what I believe, but I am also fairly sure that those beliefs are wrong. If being wrong and being able to embrace that makes me a coward, then I suppose I am.

I'm over forty years old. My beliefs are that there is a god that I can't see, that I can't TRUST another human being, ever, and that there are different religions to rule the world, label others as inadequate and murder in the name of a god that in essence, doesn't seem to be too dissimilar to my own. It's my belief that peoples of different religions cannot go merrily into an afterlife of their own creation skipping, and holding hands, whistling an agreed upon hymn. It is my belief that God destroyed a couple cities and even the whole world because he was angry, vengeful and exceedingly thorough. It's my belief that anything other than 'WHAT I BELIEVE' is wrong, intolerable and reason for banishment from the planet.

Absolute conviction in belief, my friend, is not the gift that some would have you accept. But then again, 'ignorance is bliss' so perhaps it's not so bad once you get warmed up to it. Without the ability to question, and indeed CHANGE, your beliefs, you limit yourself, condemn others and miss the whole point. Unyielding belief is a cause of unhappiness, internal conflict and undo stress.

Have you ever been to a dance? Assuming that you are, in fact, an accomplished dancer, had you ever attended a dance before you became so proficient? Did you dance, BH? Did you have the courage to get out on the floor anyway, or did you believe that your lack dancing abilities meant that you had nothing further to contribute to YOUR experience, or the experience of others? Do you remember seeing that 'dorky' guy that certainly COULDN'T dance? I wonder if he gave up, or if he flailed his arms and shuffled his feet the best way he could.

Please don't mistake a responsibility on my part to reflect, question and even CHANGE my own beliefs as a lack of courage or conviction. I have yet to use the 'ignore' feature here on ATS, as I have a responsibility to myself to read what other might have to say, even if I don't agree with them, and even if it makes me uncomfortable.

Cowardice would be hiding behind my beliefs like a child hiding from a monster under the covers. As difficult as it is for me, I have to peek out. I have to find out if that monster is a space alien with a frying pan outside the window, determined to eat my brains, or just a shovel leaning up against the house casting a shadow.

Search your OWN beliefs, BH. Tell me with absolute certainty that every belief YOU possess has been created by no one OTHER than you. Tell me that you have never been convinced of something, not based on your own observations or investigations, but on the word of a human being that you trusted. I think you will find, if you are willing to admit your humanity, that the space between us is not as far as you would like to believe. I think you will see that the lack of 'guts' you have ascribed to me, can be used to label and belittle just about anyone.

I won't take offense, because I know you probably didn't mean it as an insult, but I would ask that you find, somewhere under that well-polished veneer, a spark of remembrance for when you too were an imperfect, searching, questioning being and remember in your travels that we could all benefit from a little compassion and understanding.

I'm still not convinced that BHO is not a Muslim. If he's a Muslim, he should have just told us that.

Another Opinion That isn't Mine

During a conference call in preparation for President Obama's trip to Cairo, Egypt, where he will address the Muslim world, deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Denis McDonough said "the President himself experienced Islam on three continents before he was able to -- or before he's been able to visit, really, the heart of the Islamic world -- you know, growing up in Indonesia, having a Muslim father -- obviously Muslim Americans (are) a key part of Illinois and Chicago."

Originally posted by KSPigpen
Someone is a coward if they don't approach an issue with the conviction that you possess? I don't have 'guts' if I haven't decided something yet? I'm 'pretending' to have not decided something yet?

I said none of that. Those are your words, not mine. In response to whether you should just believe me, I stated my opinion that you need to sort out your own beliefs (implying that you haven't already - because that's what it sounds like to me) and then have the guts to express them (not the guts to make a decision). I don't know if you're pretending or not. But it is my opinion that IF you are, it's not healthy. I didn't accuse you of anything. It seems you have inferred far more than my words expressed.

You asked me several questions and I answered them.

I honestly don't know why you took such offense to my response, but just so you know, I do have a set of beliefs that I live my life by and I know that any one of them or all of them could be wrong. I question my own beliefs often. It was not my intention to suggest that a conviction in a belief was either good or bad, brave or cowardly. I don't feel that way. And that's not at all what I said.

So, to prevent further misunderstandings and upset, I will choose to discontinue participation in this particular of off-topic discussion.

reply to post by KSPigpen


Your right, he is a liar. Most do not care about race, we care about being lied to. Liars only lie to cover the truth.