Truly my last post on this website regarding Christianity's hate towards Islam.

Originally posted by supernut89
i dont hate islam.

But they hate us.

Remember 9/11.

hey guess what im a christian and i dont hate islams. so guess what you are wrong.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Check this out: God *knew* that He wasn't the only god in existence & He even *admits* it to us when He wrote the Ten Commandments!
"Thou shalt not worship any other God above Me." In this simple statement, He *admits* that other gods exist because He tells us that He wants us to worship Him above all others.

So why those Bible-Thumpers still continue to claim that He is the *only* God, I'll never be able to figure out.

You can worship something that doesn't exist. Essentially what is being said is that nothing else is worthy of our worship, notice in the actual text "gods" isn't capitilized (granted this is a translation) and this was put in there because the Iraelites were worshiping golden idols and the "gods" that other foreign tribes believed in. God said no. That there was only one thing worthy to be worshiped, and that the worship and calling of anything else a god was a sin.

Originally posted by Mr. E.

Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer
Check this out: God *knew* that He wasn't the only god in existence & He even *admits* it to us when He wrote the Ten Commandments!
"Thou shalt not worship any other God above Me." In this simple statement, He *admits* that other gods exist because He tells us that He wants us to worship Him above all others.

So why those Bible-Thumpers still continue to claim that He is the *only* God, I'll never be able to figure out.

You can worship something that doesn't exist. Essentially what is being said is that nothing else is worthy of our worship, notice in the actual text "gods" isn't capitilized (granted this is a translation) and this was put in there because the Iraelites were worshiping golden idols and the "gods" that other foreign tribes believed in. God said no. That there was only one thing worthy to be worshiped, and that the worship and calling of anything else a god was a sin.

Well said.........

Thoses "gods" that the Most High was talking about could have been beings from another planet. Ancient people were stupid like that

You people who say not to hate Islam (cuz u said so and cuz u said God said so and cuz you said God says not to judge) should wake up and smell the coffee.

1. Where does the bible say, "do not judge" END OF SENTENCE? Stop taking things out of context, read the whole chapter that that verse is in and learn to look up things like the word judge using a concordance. You pick out one verse OUT OF CHAPTER with mutliple ties to the sentence you take out of context and put your own meaning into it. That is hatred against God and shameful.

2. Since when does talking to muslims make Islam MORE RIGHT or GOOD? So if Islam MEANS SOMETHING to a nice little muslim then everything is nice and happy yaaaay. Reality doesn't work that way, wake up. Using that stupid logic if I talked to a nice child rapist and got to know him and learned how important his raping was than that would make his raping ok? For those of you who have trouble with analogies and subject identification, this isn't an analogy between islam and rape, the subject is the application of the logic that a nice person's (whatever that is) beliefs make his beliefs right and applying it to anyone with any evil or good belief. A belief is not justified by how someone else percieves that person, and it is not justified by how sinful or not sinful, or what types of sins they commit. A belief is right if there is evidence to show that it is true, such as archeological pieces sites, or buildings, historical documents, eyewitnesses, and truthful teachings. Evidence for a religion being good or not does not consist of the believer's behavior OR "WHAT IT MEANS TO THEM" (what gobbledegook talk). A fundamentalists beliefs or ANY RELIGION are no more justified BECAUSE OF HIS PASSION FOR THEM anymore then a non fundamentalists

3. Stop stereotyping what FUNDAMENTALISTS are and misdefining what they are. Ignorant people keep throwing that word around villifying them without even knowing what they believe, teach, or what the word even means. And it does not mean PEOPLE WHO BELEIVE THE BIBLE IS COMPLETELY LITERAL. And even if they did, so what? Is that belief wrong JUS CUZ? Stop pretending to be wisemen and experts on christians and fundamentalists and make a right judgement.

4. The bible does not teach to love all religions, IT SAYS JUST THE OPPOSITE, Jesus said that no one gets to father EXCEPT BY HIM and that everyone else was like a thief. He taught that truths were absolute, not, "make up whatever religion you want, it makes no difference to God or me what you teach, whatever you say is true cept those dang fundamentalists that make us so darn mad oh dangit. Dang them fundamentalists cuz uh, cuz they're so fundamental and hate Islam which is bad cuz whatever people say who arn't fundamentalists are true, specially if they claim its a religion!"

5. OPINIONS DON'T = TRUTH, get over your opinions and learn to use facts. Yes, faaactssss. They exist.

6. It is not unloving to HATE LIES, and to LOVE THE TRUTH, if I hate Islam because IT TEACHES LIES, that is GOOOOOOOOD.

7. Using the logic of "I don't hate cuz hate is bad" then hating fundamentalists of any religion IS ALSO BAD.

8. Stop making up your own morals and find out what morals really are.

[edit on 18-2-2005 by nightblade]

[edit on 18-2-2005 by nightblade]

[edit on 18-2-2005 by nightblade]

Ok, how many christians were banned from this topic? I think one is Freemason, and the name he used after he was banned. But the others? There looks like 4-5 people banned for bashing Islam, in a post regarding the bashing of Islam.

What a tangled web of confusion and misconception! I agree, there does seem to be a lot of hatred towards muslims, but I'd like to think that this is because of most non-muslims don't know the truth about Islam. Heheh...If only we could all get along together (yeah, I know, wishful thinking ).
I hope you all don't mind if I start from the beginning. It is the simplest way to untangle this mess.
Ok. Lets start with Truth. BTW, it is called Surah Baqarah (cow), not Surah Jihad. But that is inconsequential. (2:216) basically says that fighting in the way of Allah is compulsory for you, even if you dislike it. However, it does not say that you must kill all the infidels, etc. etc. It is just saying that when the occasion rises, you must not shirk your duty.
To Netchicken:
Netchicken, you started it yourself. The punishment is for "those who wage war" and "strive to make mischief". Also, there is a choice of the punishment (I assume according to the severity of the crime) from execution, to just imprisonment.
(8:39) says that you must fight them until there is no more tumult or persecution. I see no wrong in that. It even says in the same line to cease if they cease.
(8:65) is actually "rouse them to fight" not "war". This would be in case war is already underway.
(9:5) seems to be a popular quote to show that Islam advocates war. I have to explain everytime, that if you read the entire surah, you will understand what is going on. This was revealed at a time when the Meccans had broken their truce with the muslims, so it was a complicated situation. The Muslims were bound by their word that they would not fight, but the Meccans had broken their promise. This line just said that when the time of truce had passed away, the Muslims would be permitted to fight. If you read the lines even before and after it, you will see that muslims were not allowed to fight if the other side hadn't broken the truce, and if one of them came asking for protection, they were to be protected.
About (9:73)...come on! The word is "strive", not "make war"! Jihad means striving, not fighting.
I am wondering about your Quran version Netchicken. (9:122) is nothing as what you say. Also, you seem to have repeated (9:73) twice, each time with a different translation.
About (9:29) the word is "acknowledge the religion of truth" not "follow the religion of truth". So this doesn't mean that you fight till everyone follows your religion.
I see nothing wrong with (17:16). It says that before God destroys (God, not the muslims) anything, he sends a warning to those living there. If they do not listen, then they are destroyed utterly. You said you also quoted (17:17), but I don't see it there. It tells that God has destroyed nothing "utterly" after Noah.

I think that takes care of all the evidence that was piled up against Islam. See? Muslims don't hate anyone. There is no compulsion in religion (as is said in the Quran). I realise that there are differences in everyones religion, but can't we agree to disagree? Nightblade, you (and everybody else) don't have to hate someone just because you don't agree with them. It may teach lies (according to you), but it teaches nothing immoral. Heck, if you follow your own religion (for christians at least) don't hate, just turn the other cheek. Or, if you wish to be particularly generous with yourselves, accept them as a religion that is not the same as yours.

Originally posted by babloyi
you (and everybody else) don't have to hate someone just because you don't agree with them. It may teach lies (according to you), but it teaches nothing immoral. Heck, if you follow your own religion (for christians at least) don't hate, just turn the other cheek. Or, if you wish to be particularly generous with yourselves, accept them as a religion that is not the same as yours.

You're right, one should not hate Muslims(people), but instead Islam. Jesus Christ told his followers to turn the other cheek when it was a matter of personal insult. To accept them as a religion is not the opposite of to hate them. To love them would be to allow the Lord to save them through us, not to accept them as they are.

To your first post I respond:

We as women and men need to shed our biases and stop hiding behind our faiths as tools of oppression.

God Knows no faith, he knows good people. Loving people. Caring people. Selfless people. Sharing people.

Muslims, Hindues, Christians, whatever. We want to live and Love.

As a people, when we see discrimination, without being offense, point out this simple point.... " How would the world be if everyone was like you "
No person is another persons keeper. Harmonize, not antagonise.

This is not a war of faiths. Its a war wrought of childish notions in the name of profit on the Christian side, and a select few on the side of Muslim who are not in the mainstream of Muslim teachings. Nothing more. 911 was not Islam. It was idiots.

It is a conflict of the self righteous, not of the wise.

Peace


[edit on 20-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

I must say I looked over some material and just go frustrated by the in accuracies, but your first post brought to me a feeling of genuine appeal to be heard and repair those things your broke IE the TOS issue as I said in that thread Cheers for your efforts and thanks for your opinion now , DONT GO AWAY MAD

islam is a tool they use. look how pissed everybody is just talking baou tit here. they know that it is imposible to have a real conversetion about it or whatever so they use it to controll and split everybody up.

your right a hole lota people got baned in this topic.

im a christian but i dont hate muslam they are cool cos they do what they say they belive in

Originally posted by babloyi
but I'd like to think that this is because of most non-muslims don't know the truth about Islam.

Uh, you mean YOUR VERSION of the truth. Get real man, saying "cuz I said so" isn't evidence, and that tactic is actually hateful, if you don't have enough carefulness to avoid "cuz I said so" tactics how can you claim to be right and loving?

I hope you all don't mind if I start from the beginning. It is the simplest way to untangle this mess.

No "cuz u said so" doesn't make it so, starting from the beginning isn't going to solve the problem IGNORING the subject and context of what was said ISN'T GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Ugh another wannabe wise man WHO IS HIMSELF MAKING THE WEB TANGLED WITH HIS RAMBLING.

Ok. Lets start with Truth. BTW, it is called Surah Baqarah (cow), not Surah Jihad. But that is inconsequential. (2:216) basically says that fighting in the way of Allah is compulsory for you, even if you dislike it. However, it does not say that you must kill all the infidels, etc. etc. It is just saying that when the occasion rises, you must not shirk your duty.

HELLO DUDE, EVEN IF THAT IS TRUE, DOES THAT MAKE IT OK? YO EVERYONE THIS PRIEST SAYS TO MOLEST KIDS, BUT HEY NOT ALL OFEM, HEY YALL CHECK OUT THIS TRUTH, ISLAM IS SO GREAT, IT SAYS MURDER SOME, NOT ALL, NO BIGGIE. HEY YALL UH THIS GUY OVER HERE WHO SAYS KILL LITTLE UNBELIEVING KIDS, ITS NOT BIGGIE, HE DIDN'T MEAN ALL KIDS, are these analogies registering wise man? Good god, its incredible how stupid some people, really stupid.

To Netchicken:
Netchicken, you started it yourself. The punishment is for "those who wage war" and "strive to make mischief".

SO THEN THE QURAN IS CONTRADICTING ITSELF? God can you please cancel your membership and go away?

Also, there is a choice of the punishment (I assume according to the severity of the crime) from execution, to just imprisonment. (8:39) says that you must fight them until there is no more tumult or persecution. I see no wrong in that. It even says in the same line to cease if they cease.

Thanks for pointing out another contradiction since the quran says to ATTACK INFIDELS WHETHER THEY START A FIGHT OR NOT. God... DUMB.

is actually "rouse them to fight" not "war". This would be in case war is already underway. (9:5)

This guy is taking the verse of out context, if you read the whole quran verse twister the verse would be meaning rouse them for war EITHER WAY. Deluded.

seems to be a popular quote to show that Islam advocates war.

Can you think of the other quotes that are popular to point out Islam advocates war? Hmmmm.

I have to explain everytime, that if you read the entire surah, you will understand what is going on.

But lets not read the whole quran... no lets not do that, only read that chapter...

This was revealed at a time when the Meccans had broken their truce with the muslims, so it was a complicated situation.

Yeah, and the complexity caused allah to want muslims to hate jews and anyone who challenged ALLAH or muhammed NO MATTER WHAT TIME IT WAS It had nothing to do with the meccans alone, dude wake up and stop being stupid.

(9:73)...come on! The word is "strive", not "make war"! Jihad means striving, not fighting.

Oh so ok, so hundreds of thousands (millions maybe?) of muslims have been misteaching what the word means, wow, so wise and loving they are. And "COME ON" WHAT? COME ON ACCEPT ISLAM IS PEACEFUL AND DOESN'T SAY TO STRIKE OFF THE HEADS OF INFIDELS?

I am wondering about your Quran version Netchicken. (9:122) is nothing as what you say.

Hmmm, well then the quran must be a good book if you disagree with the translation of one or two verses. Dangit ur smart.

Also, you seem to have repeated (9:73) twice, each time with a different translation.

SO WHAT? MAYBE HE'S SHOWING IT SAYS THE SAME THING REGARDLESS OF HOW IT'S TRANSLATED? WOW WHAT A UNIQUE CONCEPT. Not.

About (9:29) the word is "acknowledge the religion of truth" not "follow the religion of truth". So this doesn't mean that you fight till everyone follows your religion.

Holy bungholes this guy is saying it's not saying fight them because it says until they acknowledge not follow, does that make any sense? Is this is guy drunk or extremely deluded?

I see nothing wrong with (17:16).

Well damn lets all go home since you can't see it you must be right.

It says that before God destroys (God, not the muslims) anything, he sends a warning to those living there.

Yeah. Ole Allah's red alerts, we all know about those from the tons of historical records belonging to the hundreds civilizations being destroyed. Right.

If they do not listen, then they are destroyed utterly.

But not so utterly that there are over 190 countries whose ancestors came from these utterly destroyed non listeners. Anyone smell bvll#?

You said you also quoted (17:17), but I don't see it there. It tells that God has destroyed nothing "utterly" after Noah.

Wrong you verse twister: "17:17 How many generations have We destroyed after Noah?" - Picktall

"17:17 How many generations have We destroyed after Noah?" - Yusuf

Gee I dunno Allah how many g's have you destroyed? Maybe verse twister knows, he says you mean "nothing". Is he ur new messenger?

I think that takes care of all the evidence that was piled up against Islam.

Yea you defeated all the evidence against Islam... dumb, incredibly dumb and ignorant. Dude, do some research beyond one page on the internet and ur donated quran before you play expert.

See? Muslims don't hate anyone.

Well damn can someone give Nick Berg his head back and all the other decaptiated infidels and can someone go back in time and have those muslims that admited to raping women cuz they missed their wives (hadith) and prevent them from raping those women. Damn can someone tell allah to not refer to unbelievers as the vilest of animals and to not encourage muslims to ambush and cut their heads and all their fingers off and be harsh to and kill unbelievers. Oh wait he didn't say kill and decaptitate them all, just to ransom them or take them as sex slaves or be harsh to them and fight them till they acknowledge islam is the true way and to make them pay a big tax to muslims if they choose not to worship allah.

Gee, ur right, muslims are so nice, they don't hate anyone. Yaaaaay!

There is no compulsion in religion (as is said in the Quran).

And which doesn't have an immediate EXPLANATION AS TO WHAT THAT MEANS SINCE IT IS A VAGUE STATEMENT, but taking the whole quran as the context it likely means DO NOT PERSUADE ANYONE TO BECOME A MUSLIM THROUGH ARGUMENT OR KIND VERBAL PERSUASION. RATHER THE QURAN TEACHES TO THREATEN, TERRORIZE, AND BE HARSH TO UNBELIEVERS. NOT TO BE NICE AND GENTLE.

I realise that there are differences in everyones religion, but can't we agree to disagree?

...yeah, everyone lets just go home and never discuss or argue again, lets allow muslims to say whatever they want and never point out anything wrong that they say or teach, let's all just keep our mouths shut and fingers from typing, lets end all the debates and be happy, let all the muslims who ask for americans and unbelievers to be killed and that the quran is proof that they should be to just keep saying that, let's take down all the anti islam sites, let us never again speak against allah or his messenger. Can't we just all agree to not talk about religion or philosphy anymore. In fact, lets not say anything about any subject because you know, someone might get mad and disagree.

by the way, it's REALIZE not realise, expert.

Nightblade, you (and everybody else) don't have to hate someone

Can you not slander and imply I hate anyone when I never said to hate muslims you ignorant slandering verse twister?

just because you don't agree with them.

Hey, Clueless One, if you knew anything about the bible you would know that God only commands christians to hold off their hatred and love all TEMPORARILY, TO LOVE UNREPENT SINNERS LIKE YOU UNTIL HER RETURNS TO SEPERATE THE SHEEP FROM THE GOATS. At that point I will be hating muslims and you if you don't repent not because I DON'T PERSONALLY AGREE, but because I will be commanded to hate you. Make up your mind, do you want people to obey your Allah or your personal whims? I obey God, and I don't bull# about what the bible teaches, unlike how you bull# about what the quran teaches. Stop being a hypocrite. You are the one who is hating people because they don't agree with your PERSONAL interpretation of things, with your OPINIONS. As I said in my first post, OPINIONS ARE NOT TRUTHS.

It may teach lies (according to you), but it teaches nothing immoral.

Cuz cluess one said so folks, cuz clueless one (who solved all the attacks on islam in his one post (woah headline news material here) said so.

Heck, if you follow your own religion (for christians at least) don't hate, just turn the other cheek.

Heck, take the log out of your own eye and stop taking the quran's and bible's verses out of context. As I said it says NOT TO HATE TEMPORARILY. In fact the jewish christians and few gentiles from ancient times before the new testament was written WERE COMMANDED TO HATE THEIR ENEMIES, Mr. expert. Did it ever occur to you that if God hates all who do wrong "psalm 5:5" that just maybe, jus maybe christians will be allowed to hate people like you one day? Or did you think christians would always be dirty hypocritical sinners for eternity but not the nice muslims peoples who get to kill some people but hey, not all. No biggie right? Not all... no biggie, murder a few here murder a few there but not all, cuz u no muslims are good people, they are allowed to hate, but not the dirty christians, cuz u see, this here verse im takin outa context says they never will be allowed to hate God haters like you.

Or, if you wish to be particularly generous with yourselves, accept them as a religion that is not the same as yours.

Nah, I'll jus keep accepting them as a religion that is the same as mine... the fvck is this guy smoking)?

[edit on 7-3-2005 by nightblade]

Calm down my friend. You can put forward those exact same points without all the hatred and cussing.
You are perfectly within your rights to hate islam if you wish, no one can stop you from being a bigot. However, I was trying to explain that there is no logic behind hating Islam solely for the sake of it being Islam. You use the analogy of priests molesting children. The point is that this molestation is not advocated by Christianity. The same way, just because some people do some immoral things, doesn't mean that it is advocated by Islam.
You say that the Quran says to attack infidels no matter what. Excuse me? How would you know? You keep talking like I am some sort of ignorant fool, telling me to read the Quran etc. etc. Have you ever read the entire Quran? I have. Both the original and the translation. I think I might know a little more than you.
No muslims have been "misteaching" the meaning of Jihad. It is the media that has been doing that. Seems like it worked too.
You don't seem to have a dictionary at hand. Let me explain the difference (at least how I was using it) in "acknowledge" and "follow".:
acknowledge: To admit existence, reality of. To express recognition of
follow: to adhere to. Practice

If I tell you about this wonderful time in Christianity's history when Christians killed of Pagans, Muslims and even other Christians, burnt libraries of books, decimated centuries of knowledge all in the name of God, you will tell me, "But hey, those weren't 'true' Christians". It would be the same for Muslims.

You have been commanded to hate me? By who? This wonderful Jesus who tells you to "Turn the other cheek"? Follow what you preach, friend. Just because YOU said so, doesn't make it right either.

You obviously know nothing about Islam. Your arguements have already been weakened by the amount of cursing and blind hatred you show. I don't care if you don't accept Islam. It is just that there will always be hatred and war while there are people like you who refuse to compromise your views, or even accept the other side, just because you don't agree with them.