Another point that gets overlooked frequently, is Iran's claim that it is developing nuclear capabilities only for peaceful purposes, for power plants. This makes little sense, considering how much petroleum Iran is sitting on - as I recall, it's around #5 in the world for oil capacity. That makes Iran's need for nuclear power less urgent than almost any other country.

The facts are that Iran is developing nuclear weapons; it already has missiles; its leader (Ahmadinejad) has frequently and clearly voiced his wish to wipe Israel from the map; and Iran is supplying various terror organizations with weapons used against Israel, the US, and others that Iran (or at least Ahmadinejad) doesn't like.

To believe that Iran's intentions are benign is naive and untenable.

I love how these things are so one sided when it is really a two sided debate. Perhaps IRAN funds these groups so they can protect themselves from Isreal? After all who is taking who's land according to internationally defined boundries? Isreal is the real aggressor in the Middle East. i don't blame all their neighbors for hating them.

I think it would be nice to withdraw ALL support in the area, build multi vehicle missile defenses that are REUSABLE in that once a target is destroyed the other kill vehicles disarm and return to earth via parachute.

Let them all wipe each other out sooner rather than later. We are only prolonging the pain it seems. Everyone will have the bomb eventually whether through necessity or desire, transparent or covert means.

It's time to bring all the troops home and let's get to work fortifying this mother for a storm is sure to come some time later on, but sooner if we keep meddling.

Let God sort em out and we'll figure out how to trade with whoever is left. The problem is well out of our hands and those states get ambitious towards us with every intervention of a neighbor.

The problem with Western thinking is that we see things in a view with borders around countries.
In reality 57 OIC countries are bonded together as Islam with the goal of reformation of the Caliphate. Only a small portion of that plan is Iran becoming nuclear.

Other parts of the plan are apparent including Alwaleed owning a majority of America's debt through ownership in Citibank. Afghanistan luring in our military is a big part also. North Korea and Venezuela being strategic partners in other locations is important. And Obama being an apostate muslims also plays a factor. All making the US vulnerable to fall into this plan of reformation and domination by the Islamic Caliphate.

What's interesting to observe from a historical perspective is what oil has done for the region and the Muslim world. Since the huge reserves were discovered in Saudi Arabia in the mid-30s international politics have changed decisively. Even Hitler was working on integrating Iran into his sphere for the oil wealth.

The Middle East could have been developed and modernized along the lines of Japan given their resource revenues. But it remains stagnant in industrialization and culturally.

Tribalism, self-indulgent squandering regimes, emphasis on fighing each other and the West rather than internal development and education.

Sadly unproductive. The Muslim world by and large have not benefitted from the tremendous advantages and opportunities they were blessed with.

Immature and paranoid are good single world descriptors. Anger and hostility are the overriding motivations.

Mike


[edit on 30-8-2009 by mmiichael]

Well said Mike. Too much sudden power among smarter nations and now they are crying like babies and throwing a temper tantrum.

In the latest news there was an attack in Saudi. Next phase will include AQ attacking the oil fields to burn what brought the West into their deserts. Even though AQ is funded by Saudi but the twisted mindset is destroy and remain stagnant. Very sad. Also Syria will be forced into the mix and attacks will increase there.

I always like to emphasize that Islam is 57 OIC countries and an actual physical place, one place. Not the borders in Rand McNally that the West recognizes as seperate countries.

Originally posted by JJay55
Too much sudden power among smarter nations and now they are crying like babies and throwing a temper tantrum.

In the latest news there was an attack in Saudi. Next phase will include AQ attacking the oil fields to burn what brought the West into their deserts. Even though AQ is funded by Saudi but the twisted mindset is destroy and remain stagnant. Very sad. Also Syria will be forced into the mix and attacks will increase there.

The Middle East in the 20th Century has been a tragic spectacle. All the wealth in the world found under their feet. Did they use it to improve the lot of the people with investment in their own infrastructure, improved education, industrialization, and living conditions?

No. The money went into the hands of a few controlling families and their cronies. Their vision was limited to escalating the fights among themselves and their perceived enemies. Billions going into trillions now, wasted on self-indulgence and petty enmities.

A low self-esteem infects the culture. Rather than trying to beat the West at their own game, they just want to destroy it.

Mike

The transition from poverty to world controlling wealth came too rapidly.
We're talking the Saudis mainly.

Winning the lottery of all time gave them the delusion of entitlement. And the West keeps humoring them.

They will push too far and be pushed back soon.

Won't be pretty.


Mike

[edit on 31-8-2009 by mmiichael]

duplicate message

[edit on 31-8-2009 by mmiichael]

duplicate message

[edit on 31-8-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by chiron613

The facts are that Iran is developing nuclear weapons; it already has missiles; its leader (Ahmadinejad) has frequently and clearly voiced his wish to wipe Israel from the map; and Iran is supplying various terror organizations with weapons used against Israel, the US, and others that Iran (or at least Ahmadinejad) doesn't like.

To believe that Iran's intentions are benign is naive and untenable.

Please get your facts straight on wht exactly Ahmadinejad said in that speech. He did not say he wishes to wipe Israel off the map. Of course the MSM reported this is what he said.

The full quote translated directly to English:

"The Imam said this
Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).



The inflammatory "wiped off the map" quote was first disseminated not by Iran's enemies, but by Iran itself. The Islamic Republic News Agency, Iran's official propaganda arm, used this phrasing in the English version of some of their news releases covering the World Without Zionism conference. International media including the BBC, Al Jazeera, Time magazine and countless others picked up the IRNA quote and made headlines out of it without verifying its accuracy, and rarely referring to the source. Iran's Foreign Minister soon attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote had a life of its own. Though the IRNA wording was inaccurate and misleading, the media assumed it was true, and besides, it made great copy.


It is amazing how something can be taken out of context to mean something completely untrue .

On this note I could say that the regime occupying the USA must vanish from the page of time. I am sure most would agree with this statement, but not take it as I want to wipe the Americans off the map. AM I correct?

[edit on 31-8-2009 by nepafogo]

Originally posted by mmiichael

The Inustrial Revolution never reached the Middle East.

Is that like the Industrial Revolution?
;-)

Islam isn't designed for industry. The theology isn't that advanced. The more I think about it seems to me that Islam doesn't embrace nature. Instead the mutation of male dominance via Mohammed (PBUH) is being felt 1300 years later in massive disproportion. Gender imbalance = chaos.

How sad that these Islamic boys now possess nukes and will use them in the name of Mohammed.

Originally posted by nepafogo
It is amazing how something can be taken out of context to mean something completely untrue.

It's amazing how every time a veiled threat to Israel's existence comes out of Iran someone shows up demonstrating there was a mistranslation.

Hundreds of these uncalled for intimidations have been made. Are we supposed to act like idiots and pretend we don't get the message?

How about the Holocaust Conference they had in Iran. What was that all about?

A Farsi mistranslation?

Get real.


Mike