10 year old Child bride turned over to 80-year-old husband

If I said what I REALLY want to say about this subject and about some of the
replies and opinions being offered, I would be banned.

All I can say is this is another perfect example of the wonderful
and enlightened "Religion Of Peace".

If it were my 10 year old daughter or sister, that old man, 80 or not, would be dead, dead, dead.



Baseball bats ain't just for playing baseball.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Moral absolutes know no nationalities, no boundries.

Slavery is wrong.
Child abuse is wrong.
Abuse because of race, gender, religion, is wrong.

It's easy to step back and say "I respect other cultures, therefore I won't get involved."

The hard part is stepping up even if you are the lone voice, and saying NO.

Humanity goes beyond programs, cultural ideologies, nationalities.

It's ironic, I am about as conservative as you can get (Hannity is a lefty compared to me) and yet I believe that we should intervene where ever, when ever human rights are being violated.

Free Tibet.

reply to post by mikerussellus


All of those which you listed are covered by the Earth Charter (which I respect and support more than my own government), and apparently the charter that was in place in this country. The fact that the charter was breached goes beyond me, but I know that I don't support military interference.

Technically the government should be stepping in, and probably will now that it has some bad publicity.

That is my stance. I don't want to interfere. I support charters, including one specific charter, and I will do my best so that other countries support it and sign it as well. It is their prerogative. If they have signed a charter like that, which they have, I do suggest that their own government take action against this case, otherwise they will be hypocrites.

To me the charters just spell out those basic human rights that we should agree to, and violations of we should say "NO" to, but I don't support going and overthrowing a culture or government if they refuse to sign the charter and adhere to it.

But I never, ever support military interference or the interference of other countries in the way that the US has taken liking to.

It is unfortunate that this incident happened. As I said, the government signed a charter. This case goes against that charter because the groom is claiming it does not violate his religious law. Government > Religious law. That's really about it.

[edit on 8/26/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Ok i don't want to be a jerk to you.You seem nice enough.
But what if that was your child?
Would you feel differently?
Remember...its an 80 year old with a 10 year old.
I don't follow politics and liberal this and left that so humour me if you will.

reply to post by DrumsRfun


If it was my child, of course it wouldn't happen.

But the person whose child it WAS, the father, authorized the marriage. Obviously the child did not.

If it was my child over there, I would contact the government and remind them that this is against the charter that they signed which set the adult age at 18. If they refused to take action, I would sue. If that didn't work, I would contact the UN.

If they had never signed this charter and it was my child, I would use my parental rights as a citizen of this country to have the child live with me and I would also use my rights as an American to overrule the marriage.

These options would not be available to the family and if the country had not signed the charter, it would have to go through unless the government of that country felt strongly against it because of the bad publicity.

[edit on 8/26/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by ravenshadow13


No one said anything about military intervention. There is economic intervention (worked with South Africa).

Charters are fine, if they are enforced. The worst thing your charter may do is give them a paper cut, with the way they are ignoring it.

You can't justify their actions with the strength of some charter. You can't justify their actions with theirs being a different culture.

Sometimes wrong is just wrong. And if you are afraid of standing up to this, then what else would you allow?

reply to post by ravenshadow13


You should be a lawyer.
For me i would just make the guy accidentally disappear rather then rely on anybody else to sort my problems for me.
Its easier to not pay attention to laws and pay attention to whats right morally in my heart.
Laws are a form of slavery sometimes...this case makes my point I hope.
Its quite ok to agree to disagree as well sometimes.

Originally posted by RRconservative
If it's good enough for the false prophet Mohammed.......

What do you expect from this religion?

Please tell me how he is a false prophet and how others from other religions are not, when most religions go about calling others false.

Show some proof that makes he a false prophet, and prove that your religion does not include false prophets




I have no interest of any religion I would just like to see just proof that validates all claims of any religion being false.

reply to post by mikerussellus


The charter in question is not the Earth Charter. I don't know which it is.

Tell me how economic intervention would help this girl get out of a marriage that her father put her in, with a man who had been promised to marry one of his daughters who had changed her mind.

I don't think industrializing this country, or whatever you have in mind, would really make a difference.

I find the concept disturbing however we need to understand that everybody will not conform to western standards and should not; every culture has horrible things about it including my own.

We tend to out right and say what we think of other cultures but get mad when the tables are turned we need to look at other cultures but also look at our own to see if there are problems within our own culture

I can name hundreds of things that need to be looked at in my own culture and religion are they addressed no because people seldom say things about their own practices but are more than willing to point out others.


In many places cultures are made up of practices of there villages, nearby regions and personal things all combined so there is no one particular group every group has experienced the same problems just at different times in history.

For example a lot of Arabian practices are actually a mix of Arabian, Grecian, Persian and Egyptian practices.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Sharia law is archaic, violent, biased and brutal. Sanctions (real ones) might aleviate some of the oppression that takes place there.

When did it become PC to turn a blind eye to the nasty "laws" that occur in the world.
If it helps, think of this as slavery. Young children slaves to a monotheistic religion that sends them into servitude. Women being slaves to a patriarichal society that deems what they will say, wear, act.

You can't justify your response by stating "charter".

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Sniff sniff...do I smell a debate coming on??
Do it and lets see who wins.
Case closed.

reply to post by mikerussellus


I definitely said, multiple times, that their government should take action as it seems to have already taken a general stance against this. I don't know if I'm just being misunderstood or what.

I also said that government law, such as that guaranteeing human safety and rights, which this government has put into place, overpower all religiously linked laws including Shariah.

So... I don't really see how we're saying different things.

Again, if the government had never taken action against this, even in public speech, then our argument would be different.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Where is their government taking action? Their government is made up of Ayatollah's that rule by religious decree.

There has to come a time where countries, boundries, nationalities, take a back seat to general humanity. We really have to start looking at EVERYBODY as our brother or sister. Would you let this happen to them?
Because this isn't happening in a western country make it ok?

There is no moral ambiguity in this. There can't be.

Please, there can't be.

The reality is the child is being sold into sexual slavery by her father to satisfy a debt to a lecherous old man..........SLAVERY is wrong. Any society that allows an eighty year old pedophile to openly engage in sex with a ten year old child is wrong. The old pervert is not going to wait for the child to mature, fact is, he doesn't have the time. His heart should be stopping, right about now.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by DrumsRfun

 

If it was my child, of course it wouldn't happen.

But the person whose child it WAS, the father, authorized the marriage. Obviously the child did not.

If it was my child over there, I would contact the government and remind them that this is against the charter that they signed which set the adult age at 18. If they refused to take action, I would sue. If that didn't work, I would contact the UN.

If they had never signed this charter and it was my child, I would use my parental rights as a citizen of this country to have the child live with me and I would also use my rights as an American to overrule the marriage.

These options would not be available to the family and if the country had not signed the charter, it would have to go through unless the government of that country felt strongly against it because of the bad publicity.

[edit on 8/26/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Heh, apparently you don't understand Islamic government or sharia law.
If you would like to learn the truth go to:
www.thereligionofpeace.com
there are plenty examples just like this that happen daily. People in Islam have to abide by laws that include honor killing, fgm, women being stoned and lashed with cane, rape, beheading, hands being cut off... and many more brutal forms of acts like this.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
reply to post by ravenshadow13

 

Where is their government taking action? Their government is made up of Ayatollah's that rule by religious decree.

There has to come a time where countries, boundries, nationalities, take a back seat to general humanity. We really have to start looking at EVERYBODY as our brother or sister. Would you let this happen to them?
Because this isn't happening in a western country make it ok?

There is no moral ambiguity in this. There can't be.

Please, there can't be.

These practices take place in 57 OIC countries and are spreading into China, Thailand, Kenya and many other countries at an alarming rate.

Originally posted by Genfinity
If it were my 10 year old daughter or sister, that old man, 80 or not, would be dead, dead, dead.

I just love that your signature says "Support Iran".

If you lived in Iran, the Sharia Law or whatever it is would tell you that you can give your 10 year old daughter away.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Government > Religious law. That's really about it.

I have to take objection to this viewpoint. I support your realization that our views should not be considered above the views of other cultures. Just that when governments over-ride the freedoms of individuals is where problems really begin.

Look at the core problem of Health Care Reform, ultimately it comes down to the government having a huge check over the people in the form of Checks and Balances, a situation that should never exist in this country constitutionally because in order for We the People to be free, The People have to have the ultimate check over the government.

As terrible and horrible as a 10 year old bride seems to us today, it is their culture and is quite different than our own. Now, the fact that the 10 year old does not want to be a part of a marriage says that someone must be able to speak on her behalf. Her interests in the matter should be represented, and her government should be the ones to represent them. Now appealing to the court of public opinion of the world may put pressure on her government to step in and "do the right thing"

But as far as being 18 to be considered adult enough to make your own decisions, is an arbitrary age set by modern western standards of age of majority. Looking at our past, the US used to be 21 in order to vote. Yet, my own grandmother (born 1924---and still alive) was married just before turning 16 to my grandfather that was 4 years her senior. No, she was not pregnant and in 1940, there was nothing uncommon about it.

Society has changed quite a bit here in 69 years. And before anyone asks if this was in some backwoods area, she attended McGuffey as in McGuffey Readers