Prosecutor warns Okla. clergy after pastor killing

Originally posted by ChrisF231
It's my understanding that her throat was slit almost to the point she was decapitated and then was stabbed numerous times about her body in a manner that the investigators (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation?) believe indicated that the killer knew her and was extremely enraged before staging her body. It has to be pretty bad if even the media won't share the details, unfortunately I am now intrigued by the case and the hush hush intrigues me even more.

Your understanding appears to be right on the spot.
news.aol.com...

Information from the Coroner's report

Wasn’t it the Boston Strangler that was infamous for “staging’ his victims for shock value?

Originally posted by Strictsum
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me. My wife attended a Pentecostal church for a few years when she was younger. She told me women couldn't be pastors but like you said I guess could depend on the church.

Although if someone believed in the old Pentecostal faith they may not like a woman preaching their faith. It's still a possible motive.

That seems like a whacked motive. I guess it's possible, but whomever did it is evil.

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by ChrisF231
It's my understanding that her throat was slit almost to the point she was decapitated and then was stabbed numerous times about her body in a manner that the investigators (Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation?) believe indicated that the killer knew her and was extremely enraged before staging her body. It has to be pretty bad if even the media won't share the details, unfortunately I am now intrigued by the case and the hush hush intrigues me even more.

Your understanding appears to be right on the spot.
news.aol.com...

Information from the Coroner's report

Wasn’t it the Boston Strangler that was infamous for “staging’ his victims for shock value?

Could also have been some muslim extremists. There's been some cases of pastors being killed by muslims, and they've all been beheaded or near beheaded.

[edit on 8/28/2009 by Jessicamsa]

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I agree it would be a whacked out motive but you have to figure whatever the motive is. It's whacked out.

It could be anything, I was just making a suggestion.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Could also have been some muslim extremists. There's been more cases of pastors being killed by muslims the past several days, and they've all been beheaded or near beheaded.

Hadn't heard about that. Do you know where or have a source?

Originally posted by Pauligirl

Originally posted by Jessicamsa

Could also have been some muslim extremists. There's been more cases of pastors being killed by muslims the past several days, and they've all been beheaded or near beheaded.

Hadn't heard about that. Do you know where or have a source?

www.connect-world.net...

That's in another country though, but I know I read about one in NY or NJ the other day. I read a lot of message boards, so I don't recall. I am searching the boards I go to for them.

This might not be muslim related, of course, I'm just theorizing in that regard.

[edit on 8/28/2009 by Jessicamsa]

Sorry, apparently I've been seeing different versions of same story on the different boards and the one in NY/NJ wasn't a pastor. My bad.

[edit on 8/28/2009 by Jessicamsa]

reply to post by Jessicamsa


I doubt that for one, big, reason. See, Anadarko OK is a smallish town in the southwestern part of the state. I lived there for a little while; the town is mostly native american and black. There are some white families there but most of them live in the outlying areas. There aren't many muslims around the area, like, very very few.

Anadarko, however, did have a budding "satanist" group when I lived there. These kids would be about 20 now. There's the off chance they stayed with it and have escalated to this, but that's an off chance.

The neighborhood in which the murder took place is not a good one to begin with, I used to live close and I'd hear gunshots about every other night.

I usually don't like to bring race into things, but I have a feeling that may have something to do with it.

reply to post by Mr Headshot


I agree, I'm from Noble and visited Anadarko a few times when I wrestled in HS.............man that was a long time ago.

Besides if there was a Muslim that lived there and the news leaked that her throat was cut to the point that she was almost decapitated, you would hear in the news about a Muslim being murdered in Anadarko.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

I doubt that for one, big, reason. See, Anadarko OK is a smallish town in the southwestern part of the state. I lived there for a little while; the town is mostly native american and black. There are some white families there but most of them live in the outlying areas. There aren't many muslims around the area, like, very very few.

Anadarko, however, did have a budding "satanist" group when I lived there. These kids would be about 20 now. There's the off chance they stayed with it and have escalated to this, but that's an off chance.

The neighborhood in which the murder took place is not a good one to begin with, I used to live close and I'd hear gunshots about every other night.

I usually don't like to bring race into things, but I have a feeling that may have something to do with it.

That is interesting. I'm not familiar with the town at all.

This whole thing was evil in nature, so it could have been satanic. I hope they catch the killer soon.

One of the articles I read said that there was a video tape of the area that was sent in for analysis. Maybe that will help catch the person.

The manner in which the body was 'staged' is going to be very telling about who the killer is and their motives. It;s going to take a real sharp investigator to tell which type of murder this was. If the killer is a deranged person with satanic leanings or if the body was staged to throw off the investigators is going to confuse the case. With all the CSI shows on the tube there is no telling what happened till they actually catch the person/persons responsible!


Zindo

I've been following this story since it first broke (I'm in Oklahoma as well). There are some things said by the prosecutor, investigators, etc. that really concern me about this one. For one, the closed door meeting with all the religious leaders in the area makes me believe that something about the crime scene pointed toward a hate crime of religion in general. I can't help but get that vibe.

I also was disturbed by the prosecutors response to a reporter's questions as to whether the crime scene gave him insight into what type of person he was looking for. His response was "pure evil - some one without a soul".

I've been looking over the drawings of the autopsy released so far:

s3.amazonaws.com...

I haven't found a place where the text has been released.

The interesting thing is the amount of wounds deemed post-mortem (marked PM in the drawings). In particular, the mutilation of the left breast. I think I wouldn't be exaggerating to say SEVERE mutilation of the left breast. Also curious is the fact her hair was burned to the scalp.

I started doing some research on whether the left breast is symbolic of anything we could glean knowledge about the killer (or his/her intended message) might be. I found several interesting things:

1. Michelangelo, Rembrandt and Raphael all produced at least one work in which the bare left breast of a woman was visibly distorted (some say apparent disease/tumor).
2. The Masons hold the condition of the left breast as a measure of one's Humility.
3. It is held (not by me but by others) that Christ issued from the right breast of Mary. (Yeah, you heard me right - he was born FROM her right breast. O_O) Mary's breasts are said to have figured prominently in commentary and devotion during the Middle Ages as signifying motherhood and of nurturing and effective preaching and instruction. It is also held that the right and left sides of the body are fundamentally opposed and represent good (right) and evil (left).

You could take from this that a diseased, malformed or mutilated left breasts is either trying to symbolize a lack of humility, a defect of motherhood or in preaching and instruction.

But more importantly, if there is anything to any of this - you can take away that the person who did this does a bit of reading....huh?

Here's some sources for what I've shared:

graphics.stanford.edu...

www.shafe.co.uk...

artofresponse.files.wordpress.com...

books.google.com... KY2vlTTMg&hl=en&ei=Ak-ZSuC-EobcNuGS4a4F&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=left%20breast&f=false

books.google.com... Z2nl-n2M&hl=en&ei=j0yZSofzAo--NvKkqJ4F&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[edit on 8-29-2009 by Valhall]

That autopsy report is absolutely horrible. That poor woman met a very bad end.

reply to post by Jessicamsa

I actually had to stop looking. I couldent even bring myself to read the notes. Now, I am not a cop or anything but this is one of the most horrific crimes that I can recall in my 21 years on this planet.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
reply to post by Jessicamsa

 

I actually had to stop looking. I couldent even bring myself to read the notes. Now, I am not a cop or anything but this is one of the most horrific crimes that I can recall in my 21 years on this planet.

I couldn't read them all, either. What I saw was totally horrible. That woman met a very violent end.

I'm a criminal justice major. I've read some horrible cases, some as horrible as this one I suppose. This is totally evil.

No wonder the ministers in that area are so scared. I'm scared and I'm no where near there. Too much evil in the world.

Okay, just as I feared, she was left in a "crucified" position.

newsok.com...

I figured this had to be the case with the way the prosecution was meeting with religious leaders in the community. This is scary stuff. In further reading, the source seems to think this was NOT a hate-crime but pointed at this particular person.

I'm not sure I agree yet.

[edit on 8-30-2009 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
Okay, just as I feared, she was left in a "crucified" position.

newsok.com...

I figured this had to be the case with the way the prosecution was meeting with religious leaders in the community. This is scary stuff. In further reading, the source seems to think this was NOT a hate-crime but pointed at this particular person.

I'm not sure I agree yet.

[edit on 8-30-2009 by Valhall]

The 'profiler' doesn't think this is a serial killer. Well, of course not. This, as far as we know, is the first victim. The killer has to kill more people before he/they are known as an official serial killer.

I find it very scary that this person is still out there and can kill someone else. That poor woman died a horrible death.

An update on this - they have relased more info about the case..

Slaying details of Oklahoma City pastor shocking

Sources confirmed that Daniels’ bloodied corpse appeared to have been left in the form of a cross with both arms outstretched to the sides. Sources also said investigators were disturbed by two other facts at the crime scene:


• The killer took Daniels’ clothes, perhaps to hide evidence or as a grisly trophy.


• The killer methodically took time to spray a dissolving chemical around the body in an apparent effort to destroy any DNA evidence.

A medical examiner’s report obtained through an open records request showed that the killer inflicted deep, gaping wounds to the throat. The wounds nearly decapitated Daniels’ head, said Dr. William Manion, a forensic pathologist in Burlington County, N.J.

Severe lacerations were also found on her left breast, back, stomach and hands — the latter a sign that the 61-year-old Oklahoma City woman likely tried to fight her attacker.

Daniels’ hair was also burned.

Wow - no wonder they met with other local pastors. Hopefully they find whoever did this and soon.

It's a horrible story. One that I would like to un-read if it was possible.

I tend to think this is a paranoid schizophrenic homeless person who occasionally relied on the church for support in some way. Someone who the Pastor may have helped repeatedly over the years but grew wary of and from whom she may have tried to distance herself and the church.

Maybe the person broke into the church (possibly why the police took the door for testing) to steal food, money or something to pawn and she later surprised them when she came to open the church. Maybe the person expected to be able to manipulate her into feeling pity and not call the police but they were wrong, the two argued and her reaction enraged him and inflamed his simmering feelings of rejection by God, thus the extreme body trauma and positioning.

With regard to the breast, it's possible it was mutilated to remove evidence. If there was a horrible struggle, it's not inconceivable that possibly the pastor was bitten and tooth marks were left in her skin. The killer took the clothes and used other methods to hide evidence. Maybe the the breast offered more evidence.

Or maybe I have just watched too many movies.

One thing that strikes me is how very tiny the church is. It's hard to imagine that no one heard or saw anything unusual in the immediate area.



[edit on 31/8/2009 by kosmicjack]

reply to post by kosmicjack


This seems premeditated, you left out two important things; burned hair and the chemical spray used.

People in that neighborhood generally don't enjoy having the police around so...I wouldn't expect them to call for much of anything.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
reply to post by kosmicjack

 

This seems premeditated, you left out two important things; burned hair and the chemical spray used.

People in that neighborhood generally don't enjoy having the police around so...I wouldn't expect them to call for much of anything.

It does seem very premeditated. I don't buy the crime of blind rage thing, because that tends to lack premediation. And whomever it was brought the weapon with him along with the spray and whatever was used to burn the hair. The person planned this out right down to cleaning up the evidence.