Three Former Top CIA Agents Say War In Afghanistan Ma

Afghanistan: where all powerful empires go to die.

Remember this story of the Afghanistan invasion being planned well before 9/11/01? Of course, an unprovoked attack was out of the question.

news.bbc.co.uk...

As for Obama, his position on this issue is one of several reasons why his popularity contiunues to nosedive like a washed up rocker.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
Afghanistan: where all powerful empires go to die.

Remember this story of the Afghanistan invasion being planned well before 9/11/01? Of course, an unprovoked attack was out of the question.

news.bbc.co.uk...

As for Obama, his position on this issue is one of several reasons why his popularity contiunues to nosedive like a washed up rocker.

The USA and the West are not trying to set up an empire.

They are merely preventing one.

On the way they are setting up the possibility of the people of the area pulling themselves out of being the #hole they are right now.

Exactly WHAT is the USA or NATO doing that is empire like? The argument is that it is empire because they are IN the area. Empires require WAY more than that to start, function or maintain. Sorry. Again, when you look past the fact that people keep SAYING this, the motivation and the actions don't match up with what it would take to actually do that.

Say it enough, and truth doesn't matter. Perception is everything.

[edit on 2009/8/24 by Aeons]

Maybe Obama thought he could really bring the troops home during his campaign, but then was "debriefed" otherwise when he became president. That's giving him the benefit of the doubt, but who knows, maybe he's just a lying bastard like most other politicians.

Think about it from the standpoint of the PTB: The country is in an economic crisis, millions of jobs are being lost -- would you want to add more people to the masses of the unemployed? Let alone highly trained, armed, and soon extremely p***ed-off killer machines?

If they're counting on nipping a "Second American Revolution," as Celente calls it, in the bud by squishing dissent, then they would certainly not be able to do that with half of those revolting being ex-military.

Aside from that, I think that influential contractors like Halliburton, Lockheed, and Blackwater have LOTS of lobbying power and will surely not just let the prez end a war that is so enormously profitable to them.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by sylvie]

reply to post by Aeons


You seem to refute every idea that these wars are not doing anyone any good. Can you elaborate on what good these wars are doing anyone?

How long is too long for you? How many innocent lives lost on all sides will make you say enough is enough? Does any of that even matter to you?

I already elaborated at length at what these wars are doing.

They are preventing the Islamist elites from solidifying the area from the bottom of Russia to the middle of Africa, from the Middle East to the Asian Islands into a singular religious state propping up an large economic trade block interest.

Some people finally figured out that by being an "unaligned" nation wasn't working so well for them, and decided to piggyback off of Islam to try and solidify the entire area.

Under this regime, life would not be a "human rights" based regime. It would be a Imamocracy, propping up an economic empire.

Due to the area that they are targetting, they would effectively control Russia, China, and trade to Europe. Very Pre-New-World.

China has already figured this out, and their leaders are terrified. Which explains their sucking up while trying to buy up interests in the area like mad.

What refuse to participate in the war? Are you mad, are you daft? No gratuitous violence, murdering, raping and pillaging? Drat!

I mean if we are going to get technical about little things like who attacked us first, when, where and how, then it’s going to be very difficult indeed to enjoy the gratuitous, violence, murdering, raping and pillaging that comes with a good old fashioned fun, fun for everyone war!

If you ask me this anti-war idea is just down right anti-social!

If we pull out of Afghanistan could we at least attack Honduras? It’s a small country, not too many people live there, no one will probably even notice! Please, pretty please.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

If we pull out of Afghanistan could we at least attack Honduras? It’s a small country, not too many people live there, no one will probably even notice! Please, pretty please.

AWESOME POST

Thanks for the laugh mate, I needed it! a Star and Friending for you!

The day Allied forces leave the country will be the same day it reverts back to its tribal roots full of crazed power seeking men. It's a sad fact but true, lets face it theres corruption at every level of the countries building blocks.

Religion is used as a tool to warp the minds of the young impressionable men and women, eductation is how to use an AK and RPG or how to create an IED, government is who ever has the bigger guns!

Originally posted by Aeons
But you cannot go isolationist without you also excluding yourself and then making yourselves into a target or a victim.

So, that's a LOVELY fantasy. Very utopia agrarian. I know that appeals to a lot of people.

As a way of making sure that your country lasts for another ....maybe hundred years.... before you get completely wiped out by a dominating culture its PERFECT.

You live in a time of sharpening and densification of socio-religious-economic-cultural-linguistic thought forms. A time when there are more people on Earth than your ancestors could have ever imagined in their isolationism.

Your way won't save you. It'll just pacify until a more dominant force comes for you.

Not exactly.

By re-enforcing the boarders and pulling troops back you create what's known as the unknown boundary. In other words attacks are generally avoided into unknown boundaries due to the "unknown" part.

But that's just the beginning.

It now becomes unknown what your capabilities really are. Of course your going to be tested by some idiotic country who's curiosity will get them fried mean while providing an example to the rest of the possible attempts down the road to have second thoughts.

You have a country consider a super power suddenly withdraw troops and boost massive defenses up in it's own country the others will will do the same having the assumption a new world war is about to break out. No one is going to leave their country wide open for attack at this time as it would be a foolish move.

This then results in the cold war scenario over the long term. No actual wars just build up's in large countries of their own troops and technology advances quadruple in an effort to flex cold war muscle. Each countries economy is then booming due to massive technology sector employment to stay one step ahead of everyone else.

We not only have UAV's at this time we then obtain UGV's etc.

Of course everyone has allies watching each others back the whole time but when kept quiet no one knows exactly who has who's back and therefore the cold war sits indefinitely at a stalemate until you get some crazy leader like KJI in North Korea. Which at that point CIA/KGB/etc. kick in to take him out.

In the end there is less hatred for any one nation and more fear of any one nation. Fear believe it or not can be a good thing, after all I don't go around poking bears in the nose with a stick out of fear of what will happen to my life.

In the end we become more secure as other more unstable countries break down and fall from within the country as opposed to a govt. coming in and toppling a nation. This method then causes surviving nations to become more stable as a whole, not because of ties to outside nations but because of security from within the nation itself.

When you remove the reason for a hate group to target something they are forced to target something else or they look like war mongers from within their own group.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Being former military im all about doing what it takes to keep America and its citizens safe......but its time, enough is enough.....

If we want to protect ourselves and protect our country, its time to pull our troops back home, and do the smart thing........SECURE OUR BORDERS

Then where will our politicians and elite get their coke? There is only so much you can put in a Gulfstream.


[edit on 24-8-2009 by PenandSword]

[edit on 24-8-2009 by PenandSword]

Good find.

I have to agree that this war is making things more dangerous for the United States. We don't really have a good reason to be there anymore than "God told me to do it!"

Obama is a liar and once people realize this they will be better off!

reply to post by PenandSword


lol they have sequestered enough military land around the United States, im sure they can find a nice lil plot where they can grow their own coca plants and poppies lol!

reply to post by Darthorious


Only the group your talking about isn't motivated by not looking mean and warmongering. Actually, they'd probably LIKE being considered that.

You assume that all peoples have your motivations, and similar interests when they do not.

Isolationism isn't your ticket to freedom.

Being WAY better than everyone else is. That's about it.

I understand the whole situation is complicated, but what really happens if we pack up and leave? Haven't we made so many enemies there already, that it will be a self fulfilling prophecy we created regardless? If the arguments about it making us less safe are true, i'm not sure the extremists will just let it go, and call it even. Isn't it like covering the exit of a nest full of angry hornets, and when you uncover it to run do we expect them not to give chase?

[edit on 24-8-2009 by 27jd]

Let what go?

The people who are funding and providing the ideology for the people your country is fighting, they aren't going away because you pick up your bat and go home.

These people tried to get your attention for about 10 years before 911. They WANTED to fight, and when it became clear the only way was to bring to fight to you....they did so.

A lack of your presence is just as easily spun. See, they are too weak and decadent to even protect themselves! The fools! Allah shows that they are too weak to rule. They wreck things, and we provide for you! See, we are your friends so long as you do what we and Allah want.

No matter which course you take, the people looking to set up the Pan-Islamic State have the advantage of being the UnderDog.

The only correct course if fairly clear.

Getting your message out. Cutting into the one sided information flow. Instigating education so that people have some way to question - which they do not right now. Being brutally fair.

Nation building misses the point. Nations are just groups of people. It is people building that is required. And it is a process of generations to undermine those who prey on their breathern because they are not allowed to question.

[edit on 2009/8/24 by Aeons]

reply to post by Tentickles


This is so true, we need to bring our guys home!!...imo

re increased opium production in Afgahnistan..

I was told that the deal that was made by the US with the tribes was - OK, grow opium, the allies will no longer interfere...but you must agree to only export it out of the country to the EAST towards CHINA.

Unfortunately it's opnly rational for these things to go if it fills someones pockets! Plain and simple. Who's companies was it that were filled from2000-2008...

reply to post by Animal




Also found it horribly funny. Extra star for "animale" beating me to the punch with the response.

Well put!

Flag for thread! Excellent find! True...so very very true. It wouldnt be the first time we have done this...

I agree with what the CIA was saying about how we should be fighting the war in Afghanistan. They weren't saying for us to pack everything up and go home, they were saying the way we fight must be changed. I have said this from the beginning. Also being in the USMC they tell us we need to fight more like the Spec Op guys. Excuse me, but I don't want to be in the Special Forces or even fight like they do. Really, the idea is stupid, because you can't coordinate all those forces to fight like the Spec Ops anyway. When there is an enemy that is fighting you that blends in with other civilians, then your going after ghost's. The only way to catch them is to infiltrate their network and stop an attack before it happens, or stalk key leaders and take them out.

Since the war on terror has gone on for so long, maybe we should try less instead of more. Let the Spec Ops guys do their jobs, and let everyone train for a more conventional war, if there will ever be a conventional war again. All that this war has done, has shown how the rest of the world can fight us. Sure we kill a lot of them, but will it ever end? There doesn't seem to be an end to the recruits of radical Islam willing to die for a cause they feel is God ordained. For me I am done. I am turning my weapon in, in two months, because I don't see us getting out of there anytime soon... call me unpatriotic or even a quitter, but enough is enough.

Don't get me confused with someone sympathizing for these "insurgents" though. They do need to be stopped, I just strongly disagree with the way were doing it. Since I can't change that, then I am out, like a fat kid in dodgeball.