The 1200 MPH UFO in 1948

reply to post by ALLis0NE


No reason to. There may have been something "out of this world" there, or not...

As I've said in the past, I'm skeptical, but I try not to close my self off to the possibilities...but it had better be really convincing.

Here's some more info on the reported flight characteristics -I realy have a problem in accepting that this object was a missile - it appears that the Chief of Project Bluebook and various scientists who studied the case also felt the same way as the incident is still officialy recognized as unexplained.

Captain Ruppelt -Chief of Project Bluebook

Then [in 1948] radar came into the picture. For months the anti saucer factions had been pointing their fingers at the lack of radar reports, saying, "If they exist, why don't they show up on radarscopes?" When they showed up on radarscopes, the UFO won some converts.

On October 15 [1948] an F-61, a World War II "Black Widow" night fighter was on patrol over Japan when it picked up an unidentified target on its radar. The target was flying between 5,000 and 6,000 feet and traveling about 200 miles per hour. When the F-61 tried to intercept it would get to within 12,000 feet of the UFO only to have it accelerate to an estimated 1,200 miles per hour, leaving the F-61 far behind before slowing down again. The F-61 crew made six attempts to close on the UFO. On one pass, the crew said, they did get close enough to see its silhouette. It was 20 to 30 feet long and looked "like a rifle bullet."

Ufologie Link

Dr James E. Mcdonald's Report:

"The Bluebook file is thick and contains a number of different intelligence reports that are not mutually compatible on certain quantitative details such as closure distances. Briefly, a total of six radar passes were made, and each time the F-61 closed to about 400 yards, the unknown accelerated suddenly from about 200 mph to an estimated 1200 mph."

"The original report from Far East Air Forces intelligence sources states that the unknown "had a high rate of acceleration and could go almost straight up or down out of radar elevation limits. There was sufficient moonlight to permit a silhouette to be discerned although no details were observed". The F-61 crew thought it possible that the six passes might have been made on two separate unknowns, but this was inferential."

"Another portion of the official file includes a FEAF follow-up report, describing some other points:"When the F-61 approached within 12,000 feet, the target executed a 180-degree turn and dived under the F-61. The F-61 attempted to dive with the target but was unable to keep pace. It is believed that the object was not lost from the scope due to normal skip null-zones common to all radar equipment. The pilot and observer feel that it was the high rate of speed of the object which enabled it to disappear so rapidly.

James McDonald, Statement on UFOs to U.S. House Committee on Science and Aeronatics, 1968 Symposium on UFOs

Cheers.

Ha, well then I must've seen an A1 rocket fly over the UK during the last decade... But I hope not

Interesting article. One of those ones that I just say "yeah" to though, nothing to dispute. Though not a trained pilot or radar operator, I've seen the ones that move so fast, but from ground based experience I'd put them nearer 4000mph than 1000 and at higher alts at about 20-40,000 ft. Awesome awesome thingamies and still no real answer to what they are



[edit on 21-3-2010 by markymint]

I love how even in these cases dating back to 1948, and with all the documentation from Blue Book and other sources, people will still fall back on the "experimental craft" explanation when in fact after taking into consideration all the ground observations, the "experimental craft" explanation fits this case about as much as square peg trying to be inserted into a round hole.

The next, or second, interception was from the rear of the target as was the first; however, the target added a burst of speed dead ahead and outdistanced us immediately. On the third interception, my plot called a visual at 60° portside. By the time I made the pickup it we at 45° port 3,000’ and 5° below. My pilot made a rapid starboard turn in an attempt to head off the target. By the time we got astern of it, it was off again in a burst of speed and disappeared between nine (9) and ten (10) miles.

In 1948 even the most advanced rockets being tested could not accelerate and decelerate at will. Even with today's Space Shuttle, once those rocket engines are lit you cannot turn them off or control them in any way. You are simply riding the thrust of one continuous controlled explosion.

On the fourth interception, the pilot called to me that we had been passed from above from the rear by our target. I picked up target as it went off my scope from five to ten miles dead ahead and slightly above. On the fifth and sixth interceptions, the target appeared at 9-plus miles doing approximately 200 MPH. We had as advantage of 20 MPH taking our IAS approximately 220 MPH, a safe high-speed cruise for F-61 type aircraft. We closed in to 12,000 feet, then, with a burst of speed the target pulled away to the outer limit of my set which is 10 miles for airborne targets. This took approximately 15 to 20 seconds.

Again, this object is in no way exhibiting the characteristics of any type of rocket in the history of mankind.

off topic: If I may ask.. why was Chovy banned? I always liked his avatar..

sorry if it is none of my business. I am just curious.

Originally posted by Jocko Flocko
I love how even in these cases dating back to 1948, and with all the documentation from Blue Book and other sources, people will still fall back on the "experimental craft" explanation when in fact after taking into consideration all the ground observations, the "experimental craft" explanation fits this case about as much as square peg trying to be inserted into a round hole.

Anyone can insert a square peg into a round hole, if the diameter of the hole is big enough.

We closed in to 12,000 feet, then, with a burst of speed the target pulled away to the outer limit of my set which is 10 miles for airborne targets. This took approximately 15 to 20 seconds.

So, it went from around 2 miles to 10 in 15 to 20 seconds. At a constant speed it would mean something like 8 and 6 miles per minute or between 480 and 360 miles per hour, plus the 220 MPH it would mean a speed between 700 and 580 MPH, and those are not unknown values for a jet, for example, or for a rocket aeroplane, although not from that time (five years latter the record was more than 700 MPH).

PS: a source for that text would be good, even if it's from an already posted source.

reply to post by Jocko Flocko


My point wasn't to call it a rocket. My point was to prove the OP wrong. There WERE things capable of flying faster than 1200 mph in 1948.

Also, to claim to know every experimental aircraft or object ever created is dumb.... You simply don't know crap.

To call it "alien" because it does something "new" and "never before seen" is also completely dumb. To think humans are not capable of making such a thing so long ago is also pretty dumb...

Anyway.... I didn't want to call it a rocket.. but after this quote that Karl made.. its makes me think:

Originally posted by karl 12

On one pass, the crew said, they did get close enough to see its silhouette. It was 20 to 30 feet long and looked "like a rifle bullet."

source

So 20 to 30 foot long estimate and looks like a rifle bullet........

Well the V-2 rocket was 45 feet long... and looks like a rifle bullet.

The fact that it "looked like a rifle bullet" tells me that it is made to be aerodynamic. Why would something that is supposed to be from outer space be aerodynamic? Sounds to me more like a man made flying thing designed for air.. not outer space which is a vacuum.

The description fits the size and shape of a rocket...

I don't know....

The 90 degree turns are what interest me here, if they can be confirmed. I imagine this was ground-based radar plotting out the object's positions. I don't think they refresh fast enough to confirm that the object made an abrupt, sharp, 90 degree turn - However! At those speeds, even a soft turn would create huge amounts of stress on its structural integrity. A turn anywhere near 90 degrees would destroy it.

No ballistics, no aircraft, nothing that is built by man, can make a turn like that and remain structurally intact.

Manned or not, that would rip apart both craft and contents, no?

If the above can be proven then I think that strongly implies an aircraft with inertia-dampening technology. In such a case they need not be unmanned. Claiming to know the identity of the pilots in any case seems silly, unless there is some kind of forensic evidence to look at.

reply to post by Son of Will


Well, if you believe the Norway spiral was a rocket.. it was doing complete 360's going 1000's of miles per hour.

Ive seen those rockets do some pretty crazy turns when they go out of control. 180 degree turns... 90 degree turns... it's almost like blowing up a balloon and letting it go. The balloon makes some wicked turns...

Rockets are designed to withstand many g forces because of their speed.

I don't know... no crazy flight characteristics, crazy speeds, or crazy lights is going to make me think it's "alien"...

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
Anyway.... I didn't want to call it a rocket.. but after this quote that Karl made.. its makes me think:

Originally posted by karl 12

On one pass, the crew said, they did get close enough to see its silhouette. It was 20 to 30 feet long and looked "like a rifle bullet."

ALLis0NE, thanks for the reply - didn't you see that description when reading the initial report about this incident?

There was also this quote from James McDonald's statement to U.S. House Committee on Science and Aeronatics:

"The original report from Far East Air Forces intelligence sources states that the unknown "had a high rate of acceleration and could go almost straight up or down out of radar elevation limits.

Link

As I mentioned in another post -Tifozi has done some excellent work here on the flight characteristics of this object and I'd be interested to hear your opinions on them.

There are a great many other strange visual/radar incidents from around that time and area and its said that the sheer number of pilot UFO reports coming in from the Korean war caused the USAF to take the subject very seriously indeed.

Thread

Cheers.

Originally posted by Irma

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
300miles per second is 1800 miles per hour.
ETs must be able to top that.

Correction!

I know it's a simple error, but 300 miles per second is 18 000 miles per minute
and a staggering 1 080 000 miles per hour.

So that's to the moon in just under 15 minutes at top speed. Not bad.

It's also 'only' 0.0016 of light speed which is 670 616 629 miles per hour.

So to the Moon in 15 minuets sure made believers in US saucers since the 1950s
that objects could be placed on the Moon easily. In light of all the remote landing
failures in the early days before the 1969 successful man landing on the Moon the
start of the Moon Landing seeds of conspiracy were planted.