Another Look at Public Nudity

reply to post by AshleyD

Then by your logic, I should be able to publicly pray in schools. But why can't I? Because my right to express my beliefs would interfere with someone's right not to hear it.

You are not forbidden from publicly praying in school!! That is a misconception that certain groups push in the media.

The school cannot sanction a prayer, or require anybody to participate, but they also cannot forbid it. Almost all schools have prayer groups that meet prior to meals, or after class. There is a whole lot of praying going on before every test!

Nobody has a right to NOT hear or SEE anything. They have the right to look away, ignore, or leave. I don't like seeing two men kiss, it is much more offensive than one naked guy walking around, but I won't limit either expression!

I don't like to be on an elevator with a fat guy passing gas, put me next to a naked fat guy anyday!

I can't stand to see someone put ketchup on a steak or eggs, but I don't see any restaurants banning it, because it offends their traditional customers!

reply to post by AshleyD


True. I think that the issue with this case is that the area designated as nudist had blurred lines in a public area. If a community feels that this is something that they do not want, they need to keep updated with their laws and make that clear. I know that where I live, public nudity is a crime.

It is necessary that there are designated nudist areas open to the public, that are well defined. If people don't want to go there, they don't need to. I think that in other countries this is much more common. In the United States it is fairly limited.

I just feel that if a community does not want to "deal with" this sort of thing, they need to make that clear in their laws. The two nudists in this down did nothing wrong, they weren't breaking any laws or codes, and they had every right to be nude in public according to local policy. If the town did not support that policy, they should have made that clear. This whole "Well we'll say we're okay with it, but when nudists show up we'll change the laws." is not fair to anyone. It makes things uncomfortable, and it's irresponsible thinking.

I'm sure if I lived there I would go "Hey, cool, nudism isn't illegal here. I guess just no one wants to do it. Well, why shouldn't I?"

They needed to make it more clear.

reply to post by getreadyalready


www.abovetopsecret.com...

I can't stand to see someone put ketchup on a steak or eggs, but I don't see any restaurants banning it, because it offends their traditional customers!

No offense but that's probably the worst analogy ever.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


That kind of stuff I have no problem with. Nudist colonies, nude beaches, nudist resorts, etc. They're on private property where it is expected, desired, and among those with similar feelings.

And you are very right that the gray areas would need to be well defined by law. But I'm thinking about the OP where nude cyclists ride around town. Yes, I will admit. That would be too much for me. I don't believe people should be ashamed of their own bodies but at the same time, a little bit of covering goes a long way.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm glad you said that, because I totally disagree. Looking at someone naked may cause you some minor discomfort, make you look away, or lose your appetite. The same goes for ketchup on eggs!! That proves the ridiculousness of this entire argument. IMO, seeing someone naked is equivalent to seeing someone put ketchup on their eggs.

If they are good-looking, I may not notice the ketchup, and I may continue to look, if they are appalling, the addition of ketchup will turn my stomach and cause me to look away or order something different!!

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

Then please explain more. Why would you be offended by seeing someone walking around naked, leaving you alone, minding their own business?

Yes, we urinate and defecate out of certain parts of our bodies that we usually cover up. It's not like without clothes we will just be going to the bathroom all over the place. In addition, our noses run, we vomit, whatever.

Perhaps I am too ignorant to understand why people have such a problem with nudity.

If I didn't see have to see them naked, sit in their public hair, smell theyre genitals and look at their cellulite then I wouldn't have a problem at all mate!

reply to post by AshleyD


Its not "ilegal" to pray in school Ashley, its illegal to force EVERY ONE to pray in school. You can still do it. In high school I recall the "prayer" groups.

Urination/defecation are health issues, nudity is not. Its actually illegal to spit in most places.

reply to post by AshleyD

Then by your logic, I should be able to publicly pray in schools. But why can't I? Because my right to express my beliefs would interfere with someone's right not to hear it.

Well said Ashley and my point exactly!

If people choose to walk around naked then thats there right but its also my right not to want to see it.

Like you I don't have a problem with nudist beaches, colonies etc

As long as its out of my way then I have no issue

Stars for you!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by AshleyD

 

Its not "ilegal" to pray in school Ashley, its illegal to force EVERY ONE to pray in school. You can still do it. In high school I recall the "prayer" groups.

Urination/defecation are health issues, nudity is not. Its actually illegal to spit in most places.

Yeah but you not get it? Walking around naked is forcing people to view you naked, alot of people don't want to see that!

Urination/defecation are health & hygiene issues I agree. But to be blunt we all know that not everyone is exactly up to scratch in that department dont we?

What if someone who doesn't regard his/her personal hygiene down below decides to become a nudist? It's fair that I have to see that??? Surely not.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Yes... smelly genitals is an issue ..... however, even with pants and a shirt on some people still stink like they just rolled with some pigs.



And I liked the ketchup and eggs analogy. Lol...

reply to post by Death_Kron


Of course.. forcing people to see naked people, forcing people to have clothes.. either way someones rights are getting trampled huh.,?

So we go back to my original idea: vote. 50.1% majority rules.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Yes, I know I can still do it. Like the old joke goes, as long as there are tests, there will always be prayer in school. I can pray as a person but I cannot have a vocal prayer in a school room if I was a teacher. But that's not the point. I'm not trying to get this into a public prayer debate.

What I'm getting at and why I used that as an example is to show there are certain laws in place that are not there to infringe on someone's rights but to prevent subjecting others that may not agree. It's why we have the FCC to make sure obscenities aren't shown on prime time or smoking bans on airplanes. Sometimes our ability to do what we want has limits when we have to share our surroundings with others.

I feel very comfortable being naked but I would be very uncomfortable to go sit on a park bench a nudist just stood up from to see the seat soiled with bodily fluids. I'm an ex smoker and understand the addiction but I wouldn't want someone lighting up next to me on flight to Japan.

Sometimes we need to be considerate for others. Not everyone is going to want to see that so be naked as a jay bird in the proper setting but please don't do your shopping downtown in the buff. That's really all this is about.

Yeah but, people who are nudists don't go about urinating and defecating on park benches or in public. They use bathrooms. I mean, okay, what about the girls who wear thongs and miniskirts. It's almost the same thing.

I mean, the truth is that as things stood, the people moving into that town should have been informed about the policy's allowance of public nudity. If they didn't like it, they didn't have to move in. That's what it looks like to me.

Although it seems they changed the laws so now the nudists need to change their lifestyle or relocate, even though when they moved in everything was legally permitted.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

They use bathrooms. I mean, okay, what about the girls who wear thongs and miniskirts. It's almost the same thing.

Very good point! If the bodily fluid issue is a real threat, then mini skirts should be banned and underwear should be required!

This happened to me last week, but she was very sexy and I didn't mind! I noticed that a girl in a very short skirt had wiggled around and her entire skirt was bunched up around her waist. We were behind her and didn't get any of the money shots, but when she stood up, two moist cheek prints were on the chair that she left behind!

reply to post by getreadyalready


It really is like the same thing.

I don't see where this whole "Well they pee and poo" thing is coming from. It's not like they just do it wherever they want. They're nudists, not babies.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


No one is saying that they'll use a park bench as a toilet. They're nudists, not feral. lol I feel uncomfortable going over it again but this is what I was referring to earlier:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's not that I think nudists are going to be relieving themselves in public. But their nether regions will be getting rubbed on public surfaces. I'm thinking of leaks of all kinds of fluid, both male and female.

To me this is not a rights issue. Be naked all you want in the proper areas but keep your clothes on around others who may not feel as you do. This is not an anarchical, uncivilized society.

Again, lots of things are natural. That doesn't mean it is acceptable in public. This doesn't mean we're saying nudity is a vile, evil thing and we should be ashamed of our bodies. But it does mean to have some social graces.

reply to post by AshleyD

I feel very comfortable being naked but I would be very uncomfortable to go sit on a park bench a nudist just stood up from to see the seat soiled with bodily fluids.

Well have you ever tried walking down the street naked? You may find you enjoy it very much.

And... I don't think being naked means we loose control of our bowels. I mean, clothes don't keep anything inside us, do they? So the odds are if a nudist defiles a park bench, they would probably have done so with clothes on as well....

Sometimes we need to be considerate for others. Not everyone is going to want to see that so be naked as a jay bird in the proper setting but please don't do your shopping downtown in the buff. That's really all this is about.

Majority rules. I'll stick to it. (and smoking on a plane was originally banned due to fire hazards and ventilation issues)

Can you imagine someone falling asleep with a cig in their mouth ....

reply to post by getreadyalready

Very good point! If the bodily fluid issue is a real threat, then mini skirts should be banned and underwear should be required!

LOL ... there you go Ashley, how many women rub their asses on park benches and various other seats everyday???

Such a graphic example.. stick to ketchup and eggs hahaha...

Originally posted by TailoredVagabond
reply to post by and14263

 

I agree with nearly all your post, except for the internet being the cause of sexual deviancy, because it clearly isn't.

The internet is a mirror which offers anonanymity for users, and it shows us what humanity really is: curious (and sexually curious, since most traffic is for sexual content).

The Internet didn't MAKE sexual deviants simply by turning people into one overnight - it simply allowed a platform for (anonymous) freedom of conduct without all the trimmings (GOING to get tangible mater like books, magazines, call cards, videos, you name it).

I'm very surprised a psychologist even holds that opinion, let alone come out with it over the internet.

[edit on 19/8/2009 by TailoredVagabond]

Hi, I hear what your saying. I blame the internet for a rise in sexual deviancy because like you say, it is an anonymous platform where people can be sexually curious. I don't think it makes deviants but the internet leads certain people down paths they may never have gone down if it hadn't existed. It's true the curiosity for the path is human but it allows more people to enjoy/participate in deviant behaviour.

Easier access to deviant material means more people accessing it therefore a rise in sexual deviancy. It doesn't prove that the internet creates deviancy though.

By the way, sorry if this is old news, I haven't looked at this thread a while.

the way i see it ... if a sexual predator is going to do anything , with or without clothes on, they are going to. the nudity factor has nothing to do with it.

our culture and society has been raised on these ultra christian views on whats "right" and whats "wrong". Im sorry, but I dont personally feel like I should be told whats right or wrong for my own life. we should all be able to pursue happiness in whatever way we wish to. sometimes it really boggles my mind to think that just a few people in the world control our every action. There are I dont even know how many billion people in the world... and just a few select people decided everything for everyone.

its not right, its not fair. nudity is a natural thing, we all look the same underneath our clothes! its not like we see someone naked and they have some body part thats never been seen before. We ALL look the same. Its such a shame that nudity and sexuality has been turned into what is has... I think a lot of due to mainstream views on whats beautiful. Every single person in the public eye is close to "perfect" as some would say. They are all plastic and have personal trainers who work them out 24/7. So when someone sees someone maybe not quite so fit in these nudist colonies, they get grossed out. The reality is, we are all beautiful in our own ways.

And as far as sexuality goes, its really gross and creepy. People see porn as what sex is supposed to be like now. I swear, its like because guys saw it in a porn tape, they think you do all the same stuff! Its terrible to put all these false ideas of reality in the minds of people.

Its gotta be changed.



[edit on 19-8-2009 by calihan_12]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Again, I'm not saying nudists are going to use the public as their restroom. Earlier I equated it with people having to keep their undergarments on while trying on bathing suits or lingerie.

Please let me clarify this because it has come up repeatedly:

I'M NOT SAYING NUDISTS SUDDENLY LOSE CONTROL OF THEIR FACILITIES OR ARE GOING TO RELIEVE THEMSELVES IN PUBLIC.

I'm talking about the residue or accidental leaks. Not intentional relief or suddenly all of our bodies go nuts the second we get our clothes off.

[*comments removed upon further thought lol*]

(and smoking on a plane was originally banned due to fire hazards and ventilation issues)

Not necessarily. In some parts, yes, and ultimately in America yes. Second hand smoke was one of the main reasons (even before fire hazards). But again, you're nitpicking to find differences in an effort to defend your position. The examples I'm bringing up (prayer in school, smoking in public, FCC censoring profanity, etc.) can ALL have differences with public nudity. I'm aware of that. Come on, people. I know you get the point. The point is to show there are laws and social rules that take other people into consideration because it's not a do whatever you want at the cost of everybody else society.

This is such a simple concept.

No one's ears are going to bleed if the 'F' word is said on the Disney channel but it is still prohibited. No one's eye balls will rot out of their skull if we see nudists walking around. But it is still banned for a variety of reasons.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

No one's ears are going to bleed if the 'F' word is said on the Disney channel but it is still prohibited. No one's eye balls will rot out of their skull if we see nudists walking around. But it is still banned for a variety of reasons.

I get that point. We live in a society of morals though. If we were all brought up to see that walking around nude was normal, and everyone did it... then it would be acceptable.

Its the fact that we are raised to be this way. I think it should change, but will it? I really dont know. I mean nudity and sexuality is so out in the open in many european countries, and they are not shy about it all. But over here in america, we seem like the ultimate prudes.