Another Look at Public Nudity

reply to post by Rockpuck


I'm sorry you think my logic is flawed. Do yourself a favor & watch the National Geographic Channel or subscribe to the magazine. Even in primitive cultures, the men wear loin clothes. The women will go topless, but they usually have a skirt or something on. Why do you think this is? If you feel so strongly about it, tell your Masonic lodge that it needs to be clothing-free since the gov't is obstructing your right to be nude.

reply to post by Afterthought

Why do you think this is?

No idea.

If you feel so strongly about it

Umm I don't? I believe it's the peoples choice. Have a vote. Be democratic about it. If the majority of the people don't have an issue, then let the nudist do their thing.. I strive to try and NOT tell people how to live their lives.

tell your Masonic lodge that it needs to be clothing-free since the gov't is obstructing your right to be nude.

1. That was very rude, off topic and has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said.

2. As a private organization I suppose we could be nude. However, you have never been to a Masonic lodge. The average age is about 65-80. I would prefer we keep with the suits, thank you.

Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

No, it's not a political matter. It's a personal choice. Just like abortion.

This is the flawed logic he was referring to! I think you two are aggressively agreeing!

The fact is, it is a political matter, but it SHOULD be a personal choice, just like abortion! Abortion is one of the hottest political issues in the country, but it shouldn't be (if your pro-choice). Therefore your logic is flawed, as you said it is NOT a political matter, like abortion?

As long as the government continues to let a few prudish religious types dictate personal choices to the rest of the country, then it will continue to be a political issue! Once we get all these ridiculous laws overturned, and concentrate on real crimes (like rape or child abuse) then it will be a personal choice and we can stop discussing it in political forums!

reply to post by Rockpuck

2. As a private organization I suppose we could be nude. However, you have never been to a Masonic lodge. The average age is about 65-80. I would prefer we keep with the suits, thank you.

As WM this year, I suppose I could conduct the whole meeting in nothing but my apron, hat, and "jewel(s)"!!!!

I will run it by some members and see what they think! Maybe a good fundraiser opportunity, If this "Pennies Make Good Sense Jar" isn't full before the next meeting, I will refuse to wear pants!!

reply to post by Rockpuck


You were rude by saying that my logic is flawed. Touche! But, now that you mention it, your logic of the 65-80 age range goes right back to my asking you if you want to see our politicians nude, so I guess you wouldn't since they are all around the same age. Do yourself a favor & express your political rights in the comfort of your own home or join a nudist colony. Both are still legal & haven't been infringed upon. Oh, & don't forget to have sex in missionary style only since the gov't still has laws on the books in some states that sex any other way is a crime. I think this is more of a political issue than nudity. If the gov't wants into my bedroom, they're the ones who have flawed logic.

reply to post by getreadyalready

The fact is, it is a political matter, but it SHOULD be a personal choice, just like abortion!

YES that's exactly what I am trying to explain lol..

As WM this year, I suppose I could conduct the whole meeting in nothing but my apron, hat, and "jewel(s)"!!!!

Oh my .. coffee splattered on the laptop..

"Pennies Make Good Sense Jar" isn't full before the next meeting, I will refuse to wear pants!!

Hmm... that could also work to force members to actually pay their dues!

reply to post by getreadyalready


No, I don't want the gov't dictating to me what I can & can't do with my body period. As long as I'm not hurting anyone else, it shouldn't be a gv't issue. Dr. Jack Kevorkian is one of my heroes. If I want to be nude, fine. If I want to have an abortion, fine. If I want to take an overdose of barbituates because I no longer enjoy life, fine. If I want to stab someone, force someone to abort their fetus, make someone worship Jesus, not fine.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Abortion shouldn't be a political issue either. Free choice is the name of the game. I simply don't feel that anyone's right to nudity is being infringed in a political way since nudist colonies & beaches are still legal. If you're pi*sed off that you can't walk down the street naked, you obviously have your priorities wrong. If walking down the street in total nudity was made legal, shooting a man point blank for gawking at a little girl should also be made legal.

I'm very surprised at the amount of people who have said they don't mind or wouldn't have a problem with public nudity!

There's a whole number of reasons why, in my opinion, public nudity shouldn't be allowed.

First of all decency. In the privacy of your own home then you can do or wear whatever you want but this should definately not be allowed in public.

Quite simply put I don't want to see hairy bums, saggy boobs, cellulite, wrinkly testicles, dirty vagina's etc. No thanks!

Just because some people might not have an issue with nudity the fact of the matter is the majority would do.

Secondly I agree with AshleyD, she makes some good points with regards to health & hygiene.

Thirdly do people really want to see people getting spontaneous erections? Imagine ladies if you walked into your corner shop and the weedy, dirty, creepy man on the till got an erection after looking at your bare chest?

I'm sure you wouldn't feel too happy about it.

Fourthly I disagree it would reduce sex crimes. It would do the opposite! They would go up *pun not intended*

If rapists and other sex criminal get to see everyone naked then I'm sure it would be more tempting for them to commit a crime of such nature.

Fifthly, clothes are an expression of oneself. Just like hair styles, tattoos and piercings. Isn't someones personality and style part of what attracts you to someone in the first place?

It would be a little boring if someone had no sense of style.

I'm a male but believe it or not I take alot of pride in the clothes I wear and I enjoy looking nice.

Lastly as someone has already pointed out; health & safety. Not only do clothes keep us warm but they also protect us from the environment.

People can harp on about everybody would be "equal" if we were all nude but in reality looking at my above points it would be dangerous, dirty, boring and repulsive.

For all of you who have said you wouldn't mind public nudity let me leave you with a thought;

How much pubic hair would build up on a bus for example if all its passengers rode nude on it for a week? Would you like to sit in that???

[edit on 19/8/09 by Death_Kron]

You know, saying "I don't want to see people's wrinkled ______" is similar to saying "Well I don't want to see his ugly face."

They're just body parts. To be honest, it's not sexually oriented. It's not like people are walking around rubbing up against things. And rapists? Really? Rape is a crime, not a sexual activity, and I doubt nudism would cause an increase in rape. Unless humans are really stupid. (Oh wait... my bad)

I see nothing wrong with nudity at all. Maybe if we taught our kids that the styles/brands of their clothes don't matter by just not wearing them.... maybe if we taught them to accept the beauty of every individual.... the world would be a much better place.

Maybe we all need to be more comfortable with ourselves and each other. Really, the clothing industry is a complete scam. If you're cold, put something on. If you're not, why bother?

I love to hike naked. ("Zomg she's a weirdo.")

Um, no. I like to sleep naked, too, and swim naked. Because we don't really need clothes.

I bet half of you would be really lucky to have the self esteem of most nudists. Stop thinking about what others would say. It doesn't matter what you look like, it matters that you have the right mindset to not be afraid to walk around the way that you really look.

And really, we shed snot, spit, hair, skin, ALL the time. Like to go shopping? Someone else probably already tried on those pants.

[edit on 8/19/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by Afterthought


I totally agree and while Kevorkian is a little too weird to be a hero of mine, I do admire his fortitude!

The government should be there to provide a framework for civilization and protect the society from violent crimes. It was never supposed to tell us how to live our day to day lives, or protect us from ourselves.

More people are harmed by prescription drugs than from illicit ones. More people are killed by doctor's mistakes than guns. More people die from alcohol, vehicles, and obesity than any of the things we regulate. The rigid churches that are supplying our moral basis, are kneedeep in scandals of their own. Theft, fraud, and child abuse are more common in the church than any hippie commune or nudist colony!

A good portion of the civilized world already ignores nudity, it is really a non-issue, but the US is still stuck in the Puritan way of life!

reply to post by ravenshadow13

You know, saying "I don't want to see people's wrinkled ______" is similar to saying "Well I don't want to see his ugly face."

Thats not exactly true though is it? You don't see many people with fecal matter on their faces do you? Why do you think those area's of the body are called "privates" Because there supposed to be kept private!

They're just body parts. To be honest, it's not sexually oriented. It's not like people are walking around rubbing up against things.

I think people of that character would be more inclined to start rubbing against things if everyone walked around naked.

I see nothing wrong with nudity at all. Maybe if we taught our kids that the styles/brands of their clothes don't matter by just not wearing them.... maybe if we taught them to accept the beauty of every individual.... the world would be a much better place.

Inner beauty of a human being is fine. But like I said before most people like to look nice and that involves wearing nice clothes. Sort of like an extension of ones inner beauty if you will.

Maybe we all need to be more comfortable with ourselves and each other. Really, the clothing industry is a complete scam. If you're cold, put something on. If you're not, why bother?

Agree with the clothing industry being a scam but theres a lot of other scams out there. I wouldn't not put something on for the reasons I've already outlined.

I love to hike naked. ("Zomg she's a weirdo.")

Haha that made me laugh, not in a nasty way though. Each to their own I suppose.

Um, no. I like to sleep naked, too, and swim naked. Because we don't really need clothes.

As I said each to their own.

I bet half of you would be really lucky to have the self esteem of most nudists. Stop thinking about what others would say. It doesn't matter what you look like, it matters that you have the right mindset to not be afraid to walk around the way that you really look.

I agree with the mindset comment to a degree. But like I've already said I don't think its fair to impose anything on other people and I wouldn't particulary want to see a naked person walking past me in the street.

reply to post by Death_Kron

Fifthly, clothes are an expression of oneself. Just like hair styles, tattoos and piercings. Isn't someones personality and style part of what attracts you to someone in the first place?

No one is saying that you CANNOT wear clothes? Express your style however you see fit!

As for a dirty scumbag getting an erection looking at you, that is probably already happening, and if someone is 'leering' at you or making obscene gestures, then address that issue, not the nudity!

And, if you have ever spent any time around nude people, after the initial shock, it actually becomes more difficult to be aroused. Do you get aroused every time you see your significant other naked? You become desensitized rather quickly!

As for hygiene and pubic hair, what is the difference between coughs, sneezes, arm hair, leg hair, or any other number of nasty things people touch daily? If you 'soil' something, it is your responsibility to clean up after yourself. I don't think nudity will add any significant issues, plus, it will more than likely still be a small amount of people that choose to be totally nude! I would imagine toplessness would become more common, but bottoms are probably going to still be prudent! Don't want anything caught in a door, pinched in a seat, or waffled from sitting on a metal bench!

Many people have already commented on the situation in Europe and South America where this is already common. We are not re-inventing the wheel here!

reply to post by Afterthought


Look. I don't want to see anybody neked. Well. I don't want to see almost anybody neked.

Just because I respect someones RIGHT to be neked, doesn't mean I want to actually see them. But if the majority decides it's fine, let the nudies be nude so be it. I am not going to run them down in the street ranting and raving about how they are inappropriate and disgusting and so forth. Like I said, I am not in the business of pushing my beliefs on people.

Do yourself a favor & express your political rights in the comfort of your own home or join a nudist colony.

....That defeats the entire purpose? If people object to the norms and decide they want to be nude, and you say "Go do that in your own damn bedroom" you are saying that they DONT have the right to be naked outside.

I ask "Why not" .. And so does the naked guy because you just hurt his feelings, denied his rights and insulted him.

Makes it a political issue.

Would I personally walk around naked? .. No.. I wouldn't want to embarrass any of the other fellas around me.

reply to post by Death_Kron


They are "privates" because of "sin" and "religion" and "awkwardness."
Some religions require people to cover up their hair. But when you walk down the street you don't go "Ew omg hair."

We are animals, you know. You don't see any other mammals walking around with pants on.

Rights can go two ways. You preserve your right not to see another human being without their clothes on, but take away the right of someone to not wear their clothes.

I think it's more important to be able to do what you want, than to not see what you don't want.

It's called tolerance. I know it's a stretch in this case, but I stand by the fact that I think it is a basic human right to be naked.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


Star for you Raven, well put. That's the point I tried to make, about two way rights. And when it comes down to it, we are all animals in funny clothes.. It also comes down to the basic rights of doing what you want without someone telling you how to live. I'd get neked with you any day Raven.*





*I can say that in the context of the thread.

reply to post by getreadyalready

No one is saying that you CANNOT wear clothes? Express your style however you see fit!

Thats fair enough, but if you are in my presence then I'd prefer you to wear clothes because I don't want to see you naked thank you very much. Simple as that really.

The world would have honestly gone mad if I walked down the road and saw a coffee shop full of naked people or naked people doing their shopping at Asda.

As for a dirty scumbag getting an erection looking at you, that is probably already happening, and if someone is 'leering' at you or making obscene gestures, then address that issue, not the nudity!

Yes it already happens, but it would become alot more regular occurence if everyone walked around naked. Not only would it happen more often but you would physically see it.

And, if you have ever spent any time around nude people, after the initial shock, it actually becomes more difficult to be aroused. Do you get aroused every time you see your significant other naked? You become desensitized rather quickly!

I imagine if does become difficult to be aroused however I still would rather spend time with people who wear clothes.

As for hygiene and pubic hair, what is the difference between coughs, sneezes, arm hair, leg hair, or any other number of nasty things people touch daily? If you 'soil' something, it is your responsibility to clean up after yourself. I don't think nudity will add any significant issues, plus, it will more than likely still be a small amount of people that choose to be totally nude! I would imagine toplessness would become more common, but bottoms are probably going to still be prudent! Don't want anything caught in a door, pinched in a seat, or waffled from sitting on a metal bench!

Of course its different! You use a tissue or your hand for a cough and a sneeze. Are you going to use your hand to wipe your bus seat thats covered in excrement?

Have you ever hoovered a family bedroom or bath room? The amount of pubic hair is unbelievable!

reply to post by ravenshadow13

They are "privates" because of "sin" and "religion" and "awkwardness." Some religions require people to cover up their hair. But when you walk down the street you don't go "Ew omg hair."

Without wanting to be picky but can you provide evidence that this term originate from religion? With regards to you hair comment; no hair doesn't really provoke that response in people.

Probably because you don't urinate, defacte or make love to hair.

We are animals, you know. You don't see any other mammals walking around with pants on.

Without being disrespectful but thats a ridiculously ignorant comment to make. You don't see other animals walking around with pants on because they lack our intelligence and animals also do not have the same social hierarchy as us.

By that logic you could say well lets stop driving vehicles because animals don't do it!

Rights can go two ways. You preserve your right not to see another human being without their clothes on, but take away the right of someone to not wear their clothes. I think it's more important to be able to do what you want, than to not see what you don't want.

Of course its your right and it is important to do what you want, but not at the displeasure of others.

It's called tolerance. I know it's a stretch in this case, but I stand by the fact that I think it is a basic human right to be naked.

Yeah it probably is a basic human right to be naked but again like I said above not if its going to cause offence, which in the majority of cases it would!

Although the responses on this thread so far do not reflect that.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Then please explain more. Why would you be offended by seeing someone walking around naked, leaving you alone, minding their own business?

Yes, we urinate and defecate out of certain parts of our bodies that we usually cover up. It's not like without clothes we will just be going to the bathroom all over the place. In addition, our noses run, we vomit, whatever.

Perhaps I am too ignorant to understand why people have such a problem with nudity.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

Rights can go two ways. You preserve your right not to see another human being without their clothes on, but take away the right of someone to not wear their clothes.

I think it's more important to be able to do what you want, than to not see what you don't want.

Then by your logic, I should be able to publicly pray in schools. But why can't I? Because my right to express my beliefs would interfere with someone's right not to hear it. Same thing with nudity- be naked as much as you want in your own home or on property designated nudist. But please don't do it in public where we all have to share that area.

I know it's a stretch in this case, but I stand by the fact that I think it is a basic human right to be naked.

It's also a basic human right to have sex. Urination are defecation also natural and something we cannot help. But we can't do any of the above in public. I think we can all agree freedom is of the utmost importance but in a civilized world, it is our responsibility to think of how others feel about our actions.

Just because it's natural or even beautiful does not mean it should be public.