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Another Look at Public Nudity

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posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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My State is a rather progressive State. We are full of Conservatives and Liberals alike, but no matter what side of the fence you are standing on, we all agree that the best laws are few laws. We pride ourselves on being progressive, and eagerly take up causes based on ideals. Because of that, Political Researchers, Think Tanks, and Pundits have not been able to successfully, pigeon-hole, peg, or predict what our State will do next. As such, the Nation looks to our State to determine future trends in the Nation.

My State does not have any laws against Public Nudity. However, they do not have any laws protecting Public Nudity either. Instead, they leave it up to the individual municipalities to regulate, as long as their regulations are not unconstitutionally vague.

One of our more progressive cities has had laws allowing Public Nudity for quite some time. This had been pretty much a non-issue as there were no Nudists in that city for those years. Then, in 2004, after a Nudist moved to town and routinely rode her bicycle around naked, locals would chuckle and think it quirky, but no one really minded. That is, until Tourist Season came, and the Nudist wanted to take part in the 4th of July Parade. The City Council, afraid of what kind of message this would send to the tourists which comprise 4 times the city's population (and something like 10 times the revenue), insisted that the Public Nudity laws did not apply to the Parade. The local population fought tooth and nail against the City Council on the issue. Protests and Sit-ins were conducted, sparks and harsh words flew, but in the end the City won. They modified the Public Nudity laws, to ensure no further incidents, to require Public Nudity to cover genitalia (and apparently nipples qualify legally as genitalia too...go figure) in the downtown area.

So, everything calmed down for a while until Nudist number 2 moves to town. He routinely would walk around town and shop in the buff. The guy was harmless and everyone knew it, although he certainly wasn't pleasant to observe, none of us felt we needed to cover our childrens' eyes (my 12 year old daughter was probably by far the most vocal in town towards him, and would often tell him "EWWW! d00d, I did *NOT* need to see that!"). One day, he is walking down the bike-path in the buff, minding his own business when a nearby Elementary lets out. Someone picking up their kid from school noticed him passing by naked as a jay-bird, and called the Police. The Police looked into it and concluded that it was a matter of innocently bad timing, but no harm was intended by the guy, and he wasn't exposing himself to the children or doing anything in a sexual manner. Nevertheless, the City Council has decided that something needs to be done to further restrict the Nudity Laws to "protect" the children.

Another Look at Public Nudity

In the time it took for this issue to make it to the City Council, both of the town's Nudists have moved elsewhere. There are no longer any Nudists in the city. However, the issue is still a charged one. Like I said, we are a very progressive State, Conservative and Liberal alike, and we don't particularly like having laws and will fight them tooth-and-nail on idealistic grounds. So, even though there are no Nudists left to protect, the people have taken up the banner and have begun having daily sit-ins naked on the City Civic Center. Already there is talk about starting a State-wide Initiative to protect Public Nudity since everyone knows that the City Council is more concerned with Public Image to the Tourists than to it's constituents.

Leave it up to my State to fight a battle for the hypothetical Rights of people who may one day wish to exercise those Rights, even if there aren't any right now that wish to do such!

So, why must we hide Nudity from our children when it is not presented in a sexual manner? (And the Police that the Mayor keeps on a very short leash can easily discern the difference between someone who is illegally exposing themselves from those just practicing their right to be Publicly Nude.) If only one prude has issue with it, then why must we take away that right from everyone? Isn't the battle-cry of "protect the children" getting pretty old? My 12 year old daughter agrees that it is disgusting to see an old man wandering around town naked, but she isn't scared from it, nor is she bothered enough to want to take away his right to do such (although she insists that she'll respect their right to be naked so long as they respect her right to voice her opinion about their nakedness). Why do we cling to this Puritan and Victorian stigma about Nudity still? It just seems so 17th century to me.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by fraterormus]




posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Starred and Flagged!

In The ACT where I reside there is designated nude beaches and in NSW there are several nudist camps. So here in Australia [at least locally for me] there are public decency laws [you can be legally busted being naked in your own backyard!] and provisions for those who wish to be nude! Carte Blanche for either would sux!

Personal Disclosure: IMO Squeamishness gets us nowhere!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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When I was thin and in great physical shape I wouldn't walk around in the nude in public. Now that I'm not as thin or physically fit, I still wouldn't walk around in the nude in public for different reasons.

But if it were a regular part of everyday society, we wouldn't even notice each other's nudity. Covering up our bodies should be for practical reasons, not because some law exists prohibiting nudity in public by inhibited, small-minded freaks.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Nudity is the most natural thing in the world!

I have never understood the issue. A nude person is no threat! They obviously are not concealing any weapons, and they are going to look pretty silly and obvious if they chase you!

What are we protecting our kids from, exactly?

IMO, it boils down to a rigid religious undertone from centuries past. It may even be the passage where one of Noah's sons saw him naked and had to be cast out! My sons and I swim Naked all the time in our backyard. It makes more sense than wasting swimming diapers and doing extra laundry! It is our 'green' contribution!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


When my kids were little, I would sometimes shower with them because it was easier on my back than leaning over a bathtub to help them wash up. The last time I had my son in the shower with me (he was 3), he was behind me playing with soap bubbles while I rinsed my hair. He patted my behind and said with glee "ocean waves"!

That was the last time!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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In a word... tradition.

Just like every other piece of behavior that makes up our culture, people view nudity as a sexual thing because they are taught from birth that it is a sexual thing. I personally find it disingenuous and will spend all day in nothing but a house coat at times.

That being said, I am not purposefully nude in front of my daughter. Why? Because as much as we teach her that nudity is not a sexual thing, one slip at school would have CPS on our doorstep and me in jail. I don't feel so passionate about nudity that I am ready to go to jail for it, so a house coat is fine.


Things like this just take time to change. We started banning public nudity once we started living in cities and towns because of the fact that some people could not control themselves. Other people made it into a religious matter and it took off from there. In order to reverse such a thing would take another 2-3 thousand years of unconditioning, IMHO.

Good thread, though. Wish I lived in your neck of the woods. Texas is full of prudish ignorant savages..


+4 more 
posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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Gee, if nudity became part of everyday life

it would destroy multi-billion dollar industries !

If everyone saw bare genitalia, nipples (about as erotic as fingernails, considering we all have them, even cats, dogs and monkeys) and backsides, on minute to minute basis ... just think what it would do to the careers of all those women famous for nothing more than being photographed getting in and out of vehicles with their skirts hitched-up

And boom crash would go the market value of certain female tennis players

and Sharon Stone would be washing dishes out the back of a greasy spoon restaurant

Oh no. We can't have widespread nudity. The economy would crash



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by St Vaast
Oh no. We can't have widespread nudity. The economy would crash


ROFLMAO. Honestly, as funny as you post was, I can't help but sense a level of truth to it.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
I personally find it disingenuous and will spend all day in nothing but a house coat at times.

That being said, I am not purposefully nude in front of my daughter. Why? Because as much as we teach her that nudity is not a sexual thing, one slip at school would have CPS on our doorstep and me in jail. I don't feel so passionate about nudity that I am ready to go to jail for it, so a house coat is fine.



Before I took in a female roommate, I used to lounge around the house naked all the time. So did my daughter's mum while we were together. My daughter grew up around it although she has always been personally obsessed with her clothing ever since she could dress herself. The day that my daughter kicked me out of the bathroom when I was shaving while she was taking one of her epic three hour baths with the shower-curtain closed, I realized it was time to stop lounging around the apartment naked. She was 5 that day she kicked me out of the bathroom. Somehow she grew up more prudish than either her mother or I were.

And that's just it. I'm a prude myself. I blush when my lover undresses and I turn around to give them privacy. I avert my eyes when someone walks by wearing a bikini or a low-cut blouse. I cover myself .-to-toe with clothing when I leave my house, and would never be naked in public, let alone in the day-light! Heck, I would never even show my arms bare, let alone take off my shirt! However, I'm not so prudish to deny that right to others or take offense when others exercise that right.

It boggles my mind that an agency like CPS would care about whether a family practices Nudism in their own home in front of their children! I remember when my daughter had her first bath as an infant, I went to take a photo to put in her baby-book and my daughter's mum stopped me worried that CPS would take our child away because it would be considered "Child Pornography"! I looked into it, and sure enough, harmless baby pictures are enough to get you arrested and have your child taken away from you! You are right to be cautious, but it absolutely makes no sense that we would have to be cautious at all over such a innocuous thing as either our children or ourselves being naked, especially in the privacy of our own homes.

And that brings up another point...say our City Council recants and bends to the will of the people and fully allows Public Nudity again. Would CPS take my child away from me because she saw a legally naked person while we were shopping downtown? Bah! It's infuriating how we have lost common sense in our irrational over-protectionism of the welfare of our children!

[edit on 18-8-2009 by fraterormus]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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I've had a few glimpses of nudist camps videos and I wouldn't want them sitting on my furniture.


The OP did make me laugh and think about it. I've also seen Schindler's list and that was also too much for my eyes that I haven't yet forgotten. What kind of rating does that get?


There was something on the news years ago about children in these nudist camps and the problem with perverted neighbors and past offenders.

It's not always as easy to seperate these as potential threats, but it would seem more obviously out in the open or hard to hide? Some people are objectionable to look at even when they are wearing clothes. It's still our own free will to chose not to stare at them either.

I still wouldn't want any of them sitting on my furniture. Well, maybe just the ones I invite anyway. The beaches and the pools does seem a bit tidier. Don't forget your towel.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by aleon1018
 



but it would seem more obviously out in the open or hard to hide?


Was that an intentional play on words? I suppose if a pedophile were naked around kids it would be "hard to hide"!!


I'm pretty sure you would get strung up very quickly if you had an involuntary reaction to some kids playing!



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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Thats a well written OP there.

You did not emphasize it, but what is especially interesting is that nudity was not a problem until the nudists started "pushing their luck" by holding protests and having to rub it into peoples face during tourist season.

This reminds me of many other "social issues" that were actually no problem until angry protesters had to exaggerate their cause.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 





IMO, it boils down to a rigid religious undertone from centuries past.


Totally agree dude once again we have religion to thank for our insecurities.

Needless to say it's unlikely we will ever revert to all being naked again, as there is too much money being made.

Anyway, what the hell would women do with all that clothes shopping time on their hands if we all went around naked?


God, Retailers and Plastic surgeons need us covered up when at this period of evolution we desperately need to let it all hang out.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Where are the pictures?!


Seriously, I'm all for public nudity for people that are good looking. You should have to apply for a license to display your flesh :p



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm pretty sure you would get strung up very quickly if you had an involuntary reaction to some kids playing!


Agreed! I don't know of any community that wouldn't string up a person getting aroused involuntarily or not around kids playing. I certainly don't know any community that would find any persons stringing a pedophile up to be guilty of committing a crime. Can you spell "acquittal" boys and girls of the jury? I knew you could!

So, we know that even the most progressive of communities that allow Public Nudity wouldn't tolerate sexual predators or pedophiles. But the million dollar issue that even psychologists can't answer...does the hiding of nudity and making it taboo create sexual deviancy, or is sexual deviancy something else that is wired incorrectly in the brain? If it is the former, then a generation after Public Nudity was allowed then one should see a marked decrease in the number of these criminal deviants.

This really isn't my area of expertise, not personally being a Nudist, but perhaps someone else here on ATS might know of any statistics of sexual crimes committed against children in countries that allow Public Nudity. I am willing to bet they are significantly lower than countries that do not.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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It's what we grow accustomed to and the prohibitions (for want of better term right now) under which we were raised.

These early programmings are difficult to break.

It's like with our national flag and anthem. They programme us early. As adults (witness Olympic medal winners and other sports-people) we get teary when we hear that anthem, see that flag flying. We'd do so even if we'd been adopted in infancy and raised under that flag and anthem, even if in our veins ran the blood of the sworn enemies of the flag/anthem under which we, as adoptees, were raised.

So, we shouldn't underestimate the power of early conditioning.

Most of us were raised to believe that nudity is 'rude', ill-mannered or, in some cases, people are raised to believe nudity is 'evil'. Others, usually indigenous people these days, are raised to believe nudity is normal and natural and good.

All the way through, nudity is simply lack of clothing. So neither the bare skin nor the clothing is inherently good or bad.

In the Victorian era, apparently, even the sight of a bared ankle (bare apart from thick stockings) was considered risque. We're told they even covered table-legs beneath layers of cloth, in case the sight of that wooden stump (ok, some of those table legs were pretty shapely) turned men's eyes to other stumps and caused them to become wild, rampaging animals ... thrill, thrill, swoon.

Barbara Cartland and her ilk made themselves a tidy living from churning out romantic novels referred to as 'bodice rippers'. Again, the wild (but incredibly handsome, deep and romantic) animal in man was contrasted with the fainting, swooning heroine and her endless layers of stays, corsets, petticoats, bodices. People still love those novels. It's the chase, the pursuit, that they enjoy.

Because, beneath his leather vest and velveteen jodphurs .. beneath her lace and petticoats ... there is just bare skin. And ordinary old nipples, both male and female. And sag. And sweat. And body odour. And stretch marks. And rashes and other skin conditions. And pubic hair. And rolls of fat. And discloured areas.

Nudity, public nudity, dispels the glamour. Stip a hundred people down and stand them in line and bye bye goes sexual desire. Nude bodies are just so predictably ordinary. They make you wonder what all the fuss is about, right ?

We humans tart everything up. We want it to be 'more'. We do it with the cars we drive. We don't need velour seats and leather bound steering wheels, shiny chrome and walnut dashboard. We just need a container that will get us from A to B. Same with our furniture. Do our couches really need to be A-grade leather torn from the backs of virgin lambs then dyed this season's popular colour ? Do our carpets really need to be hand-woven by exotic people in other nations ? Do our floors really need to be covered with premium blend merino wool and sculpted into rivulets like sand after the last high tide ?

We're running like crazy from our animal origins is what we're doing. On a superficial level.

Some say this flight (call it a divorce if you like) from our own skin and sweat and hair and excreta is evidence of our evolution. Others call it progress. Some call it refinement, civilisation.

But, nothing can deny that we're born stark naked. And while our loved ones grieve and blow their noses, undertakers bare us down to our skins again and start plugging our orifices so we don't expel substances from our bowels and noses as we later lie surrounded by white satin and sweet smelling flowers.

In between, we treat our nakedness as an aberration .. as something that's seen during a shower or bath and swiftly recovered before we face the world. Most of us only see our naked bodies in mirrors as we dress or undress .. especially as we age and the sagging appears and the veins, etc.

Since my children were young, it's occurred to me that (and it won't happen) we should have national Naked Days .. say Monday, Wednesday and Saturday. That would get us used to it, and then it could be every day.

If this above pipe dream became reality (and it would be painful for we adults, for sure) it would accustom younger generations to bodies in all their myriad shapes, colours, sizes, ages, etc.

And THAT would break the back of the sex and porn industries which are cynically exploiting our unfamiliarity with naked human bodies.

How good would THAT be, huh ? All the energy currently being drained off into masturbation and unnatural fantasies could be utilized TO assist evolution.

Because, if children were raised to view the human body for what it is .. a 'container' for the personality, character, soul of the individual inside ---- then it would be THOSE 'hidden' qualities upon which attention would focus !

Do you see what I'm trying (badly) to express ? Currently, the personality and character of a person is very often regarded as *secondary* to the container. Let's take Britney Speers as example. When she was at her peak, did anyone of her audience look behind the toned abs and blond hair, winning smile, good legs ? And did she (and her promoters) exploit that strong, toned, young body ? You bet. She wore crop-tops and shorts and bikinis and boots .. show and tell, like in grade school. Hide a bit, show a bit. Cover a bit .. expose the other bits. It made millions for that kid.

AND .. Britney's attractive body and face persuaded people that her personality and character were equally attractive (and of course they may be). Just as Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt are given benefit of the doubt, based on their physical attractiveness.

BUT .. if children from infancy were to see young, old, fat, thin, well and badly proportioned bodies all around them, then these would become ordinary, normal, and basically unimportant.

And what *would* mark people as exceptional or otherwise would be the parts of them (character, personality, soul) that cannot be so easily seen.

So, kids raised to regard nudity as the norm would value people for what they are, what they stand for. Society would develop new standards as to what is worthy. Abs alone wouldn't count for much and as kids would know (having seen old people nude) abs don't last for long either.

Currently, it's only undertakers and medicos who see us naked and spent. And our .stones supposedly say what we we stood for.



[edit on 18-8-2009 by St Vaast]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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August 23, 2009 "National Go-Topless" Day.

blogs.wweek.com...

Awesome, wish I lived in Oregon.



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by ExPostFacto
Where are the pictures?!


Seriously, I'm all for public nudity for people that are good looking. You should have to apply for a license to display your flesh :p


LOL!

You are right. If this were the city of Hollywood debating on this issue, where everyone has $500,000 of plastic surgery and spends their life in the gym to look the best that humanity can possibly be, then everyone would be all for it!

As far as most of society is concerned Nudity is a privilege, not a right! Only the good looking people are allowed the privilege of Public Nudity in most towns.

Yeah, if you were a hot female taking off your bikini on a beach, a cop would have to be a total jerk to cite you. However, if you are naked dancing old-man "wizard" on mushrooms at a concert, then you should be expecting to get Tasered by any cop in the vicinity. Naked Wizard Tasered at Coachella (ATS Thread)

We have become shallow as a society, haven't we?

[edit on 18-8-2009 by fraterormus]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by fraterormus
 

I'm not a nudist but I'm involved in psychology.

I'm happy to accept covering up increases the amount of sexual deviency in the world. I tend to believe that people become most stimulated by that which they are forbidden to access. The more we cover up the more there is for people to focus their arousal needs/fetishes on to.

We usually cover up -

Legs - I like legs
Bums - I like bums
Boobs - I like boobs
Feet - I'm not a fan at all but there are a massive amount of people out there with foot fetishes.
You can even stretch this as far as fetishes to do with paraplegics and animals... it's all stuff we're not supposed to see, so those who are looking for that little bit extra become aroused.

Forbidden fruit is always the sweetest.

However, I also blame the internet for a massive rise in sexual deviency.

Now, let's just get one thing straight.... I am a male who loves legs, bums and boobs.... no feet, no animals, no inanimate objects(!)... do not get the wrong idea, my indepth knowledge on fetishes and sexual deviency is purely on a professional basis


Just the fact that there are comments in this thread about how bad nudists look shows how detatched we have become from the natural.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by and14263]



posted on Aug, 18 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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The only problem I have with the issue on the whole is that nudists are usually the last people you want to see nude.


Peace



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