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Masons and conspiracy theories

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posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
Buddy, you are the vehicle.
The tool.
The vessel.

I thought maybe you actually wanted to see what is wrong with this world, but in fact, you have chosen justifying it.

Each time you guys have to dissect a post WORD FOR F*CKIN WORD.

Can you not think any more? I am saying Masonry has been abused, and here I am being called a LIAR! This is freakin ridiculous. It is the most blatant obvious thing in history!


I honestly believe that you will never, never, never understand. How sad for you.


[edit on 2/25/05 by The Axeman]




posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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caught up now on the thread, still not convinced about masonry.

In my adventures of research on the net I came accross my state's freemasonry site, and there was one section listing the books they have on offer for fellow brothers, not sure if there for public consumption.

One example is this,

Library
Item Details Request Book
Title: Irish & English Freemasons & Foreign Brother
Author: Unknown
CoAuthors:
Edition: Pages: 82 ISBN: N/A

Publisher: Unknown Year: 1875
Copyright: Unknown

Location: Cab `A' Shelf 2
Description: A nasty, ignorant publication ofwhich we should be aware. D. Wray, September '99
Notes: This book is in a very poor condition and must not leave the library. (Special Storage)
Subjects: Exposures
Catalogue: Exposures; Anti- Masonic; Controversial


I have no knowledge of this book or how it relates to masonry, but it is a book that the local masons here "should be aware" of.

Its like you hunt for all knowledge critical of masonry so you can deconstruct and attack critisism almost pre emtivly.

Training fellow brothers on the teqniques, maybe not all, but the higher more intelligent ones, like yourselves.

The picture im painting now is that masonry today is some massive doublethink deconstructive mind control process.

You attack critisism with the zeal of someone religious.
Like the very words "Bad Masons" are blasphemy .

The formula of deconstruction of all and any arguments against masonry is so well intrenched into their mindthink its not funny.

Its like some trained automatic defencive reflex system that blocks all attempts to process the information on anything criticle of masonry.

Almost like say, jhova being the other side of the coin.

Also in my research of local masonry, (yes i know you can claim plausable separation from each lodges, especially foreign ones) i have found some interesting things that i will be posting in due time.

The 1st little thing ive found localy, besides my soon to be posted masonic obelisk and masonic obelisk gravestones, is this one;

members.iinet.net.au...

Our very own masonic black pyramid !

The foundation stone was laid by the then premier, Sir Charles Court, a freemason, in conjunction with the mayor, Mr. F. Chaney on the 31st December 1979.

The whole structure rest upon a concrete eight pointed star, the masonic square upon the square.

Masonic fingerprints all over this thing.

Seems the masons here are more comfortably with there "craft" here than they are wherever you other masons are from.

That is one, more to come soon. time for the deconstruction to begin again.

You must remeber my intitial enquiry was about masonic obelisks.
Maybe i need to talk to my local masons about it ?
Yeah sorry if i come accross strong, but you guys asked for it .

PS this is a masonic conspiracy thread remember.


[edit on 25-2-2005 by Qui Bono]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by Qui Bono
Its like you hunt for all knowledge critical of masonry so you can deconstruct and attack critisism almost pre emtivly.

Training fellow brothers on the teqniques, maybe not all, but the higher more intelligent ones, like yourselves.
The picture im painting now is that masonry today is some massive doublethink deconstructive mind control process.
You attack critisism with the zeal of someone religious.
Like the very words "Bad Masons" are blasphemy .




What a load of crap. We attack lies.
Criticize all you like. If it's justified critisism then good for you.
Post lies and you'll be corrected, just as you would if you posted lies, poison and vitriol about other people.
And that's the thing about the anti-mason. He hates the fact that he gets shown up to be a liar. And so he uses the argument above.

"You are bad people because you defend yourselves".

Get real. That's an ignorant argument.
I've got a feeling that the picture you are painting is being done on wax paper with non-toxic finger paints. Maybe if you're a good boy, they'll let you play with the crayons next.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 06:29 AM
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what am i lying about to be specific ?

I was told masonry doesnt use egyption symbolism by ATS masons.
That its rare.

But the more i scratch the surface of my local masonry, the more i see egyption designs in their various architecture.

I was told to go research it myself, and this is what i find.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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I've said it once, I'll say it again, where there is smoke, there is fire.

Do you notice how any anti-Masonic posts lead to an instant swarm of Masons coming out to trash them. Is like the Masons have a small group constantly monitoring this site to put out any potential fires.

All you need to do is look at my signature to realize there is something seriously wrong with Freemasonry. Its about lying, lying, lying to anyone who isn't a Mason.

Do you see me defending the Bible against every Bible-basher? No. I have nothing to hide, I don't erect structures in tribute to ancient gods and goddesses (Washington Monument, Liberty Enlightening the World) and then lie about their true meaning.

Its a proven historical fact that Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati) inflitrated the Freemasons in the late 1700's and tried to change the way they operate. Its in Wikipedia, its historical fact. If you look at Freemasonry today, they sure aren't building Cathedrals anymore, but moreso tributes to ancient pagan gods and godesses.

Something changed in the late 1700's, and it changed for the worse.

Thank the Lord people are starting to notice:

www.canoe.ca...

[edit on 062828p://555 by LogoWatch]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
I've said it once, I'll say it again, where there is smoke, there is fire.

Do you see me defending the Bible against every Bible-basher? No. I have nothing to hide, I don't erect structures in tribute to ancient gods and goddesses (Washington Monument, Liberty Enlightening the World) and then lie about their true meaning.

If you look at Freemasonry today, they sure aren't building Cathedrals anymore, but moreso tributes to ancient pagan gods and godesses.

Thank the Lord people are starting to notice:


"Tributes to pagan gods and godesses"?
What do you think Christianity is? The whole religion is founded on paganism - from the Sacrament to the bishops mitre. From the resurrection theme to the important celebratory dates. No paganism, no Christianity. It's as simple as that. Where there's smoke there's fire? Your house has just burnt down around your ears and you didn't even see it happening.
Why thank the Lord? You don't seem to have noticed anything.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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You're completely wrong.

Don't confuse the Christianity of the Bible with man-made organized religion.

No where in the Bible does it say we should have Bishops with mitres.

And we all know what the Bible said happened to the ancients who worshipped blasphemous gods and godesses.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
You're completely wrong.

Don't confuse the Christianity of the Bible with man-made organized religion.

No where in the Bible does it say we should have Bishops with mitres.

And we all know what the Bible said happened to the ancients who worshipped blasphemous gods and godesses.



One second you say to disregard the Bible, the next you use it to justify a point.
Don't be a hypocrite. The Christianity that is followed by the majority today is based on the Bible. A book that in itself is based on paganism.
The New Testament and the Old Testament contain many references to paganism. Some of the time they adopt them for their own causes. Other times they wipe them out. But disregarding the pagan roots of religion is folly. It's burying your head in the sand.
It doesn't make the religion any less pertinent or make it a false religion. Paganism is a fact in the evolution of religion - it's influence should be recognised and celebrated, not denied. Once you deny pagasnism in religion you deny the truth of that religion.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
from your siggy--
Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.” -Albert Pike

Pike is correct. Truth is not for those who cannot see it.
You mistakenly think this knowledge, this truth is something kept from everyone. If you sincerely seek this knowledge, it will come to you.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
I am saying Masonry has been abused, and here I am being called a LIAR! This is freakin ridiculous. It is the most blatant obvious thing in history!


Akilles, all we're asking for is some conclusive evidence! You're being called a liar because:

1. All the freemasons on this board have never, in all their years with the organization, seen any kind of abuse.
2. You present no evidence whatsoever.

If this were true, as you claim, then it should be no problem for you to argue your case with something conclusive.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
Do you notice how any anti-Masonic posts lead to an instant swarm of Masons coming out to trash them. Is like the Masons have a small group constantly monitoring this site to put out any potential fires.


You're right, we are here to deny ignorance and that's just what we'll do. Unfortunately, most masons just let the anti's go along and say whatever they want.. us masons here on ATS strive for something better.



All you need to do is look at my signature to realize there is something seriously wrong with Freemasonry. Its about lying, lying, lying to anyone who isn't a Mason.


Again, you make the mistake (aside from mis-interpreting the statement) of thinking that one person speaks for all of freemasonry. Pike didn't invent masonry, he didnt invent the meaning of it, he didnt invent its purpose, so why would you think that his statement is truthful of the whole organization?


I don't erect structures in tribute to ancient gods and goddesses (Washington Monument, Liberty Enlightening the World) and then lie about their true meaning.


Nobody lies about their true meaning, you guys just think they are something they are not. It is YOU who are the liars, my friend.



If you look at Freemasonry today, they sure aren't building Cathedrals anymore, but moreso tributes to ancient pagan gods and godesses.


And who would these gods and goddesses be? Please enlighten us.



Something changed in the late 1700's, and it changed for the worse.


Oh please, like you're anywhere near qualified or instructed enough to know this, much less state it as a fact.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Here is a major problem I see in this area of ATS. Freemasons who respond to us make hard generalizations about masonary but then admit that they do not know about, for example, certain symbols in Australia at Masonic Lodges. Course you can't make generalizations then if Freemasonary differs in other countries.

Further, just to spit the tired old, dogmatic logic that you guys love back into your faces, here is an argument by analogy which I hate to subject practical people to, but here goes. Masonic members on here think that because they are Masons they are an authority on the trade. In this way, they can "debunk" or "dispel" conspiracy: negative press. I am a member of the military which houses 60, 000 strong and there is no way I would sit on an internet forum and say that I am qualified to debunk conspiracy theory related to it. I could be totally dogmatic and theoretical, and thus, completely detached from any kind of tangible reality in my arguing, but in the end, it is not accomplishing acquiring the actual truth. I have no idea what the mandate is with the upper ranks, and I would never pretend to know. I could defend it, believing what I was taught during boot camp, Qual. training, and all the rest of the indoctrinating BS, but that would be ignoring reality: the way the world, viz, the military and Politics, actually work.

The same goes with the Catholic church. I am not very Religious, but when I go to a church, it is a Catholic one. When I was Catholic, and even now, I would never sit here and defend conspiracy theory against it because I simply don't know what the mandate is up there, I would never pretend I do. Even if they are corrupt, I still like the Bible and the teachings, but that is for my own benefit and I don't attend to hear some guy tell me about morality. It is purely for myself and by myself. You don't like the Church I really don't care. Catholic Priests rape little boys, I ain't hiding that stuff from anybody.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 05:40 PM
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Try suggesting Francis Bacon wrote the rituals, and see what you get.

Yes, you heard me, Sir Francis Bacon wrote the Freemason rituals.

And now you are all saying, Oh such a good fellow, I am proud to be a Freemason.

Well, I will give you something to make you even prouder, Sir Francis Bacon was the literary William Shakespeare (the actor Will Shakspere, who gives a flying f*ck). And its also true he translated the Bible.

Thats a lot for one man to do, but hey, he was dedicated!

I think the funniest thing ever said was:
"When you lose the paganism in a religion you lose its truth."

Did I mention the Goddess Pallas Athena? She was the Spear Shaker...
Ma free Sons, huh? Goddess worship, using your bibs, I mean aprons to cover your phalluses...



[edit on 25-2-2005 by akilles]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by freudling
Catholic Priests rape little boys, I ain't hiding that stuff from anybody.



That's exactly the kind of ignorant generalization we've come to expect from you guys.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
...using your bibs, I mean aprons to cover your phalluses...




[edit on 2/25/05 by The Axeman]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Boy, I just love leveller's posts, his answers are exactly what I expect.

If you are a true Christian, then you must believe that Satan exists. Satan was around long before Jesus was, yet he knew exactly what was coming. He knows the plan, but he can only influence it if God allows it.

What better way to test Christians than to setup pagan religions which are somewhat similar to what was coming, with the true Son of Man.

And here we go, trying to discredit Jesus entirely because portions of the Bible had similarities to pagan religions.

By the way, don't tread off topic, it was you who brought up the Bishop's mitre, that is a man-made part of religion, it didn't come from Jesus. So don't accuse me of things I didn't do.

Jesus and God are here, they're all around us. Need I remind you its 2005?

Yes, 2005. Why is it 2005 and not 3512? Jesus must be pretty important.

Some of us forget so easily. I pray for us all.


Cug

posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
Its a proven historical fact that Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati) inflitrated the Freemasons in the late 1700's and tried to change the way they operate. Its in Wikipedia, its historical fact.


Its in Wikipedia, it's a historical fact.


Dude, it's a Wiki! Anyone can write, edit in a wiki. Someone could write that Santa and the Easter bunny in fact control the Illuminati. then would that be a historical fact?



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:20 PM
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Well, why did you use two satanic pagan examples that the Illuminati created?

Easter, Astar, Ishtar. Goddess.

Santa Claus =Satan Lucas. Nick is a Nick name (ooh, nick names are of occult origin) for Satan.

Now why if there was a true connection, would it be so simple? Because those that HIDE things do so right UNDER our nose, using anagrams, symbolism, hidden meanings, in other words, out in the open.

There could not have been an occult revival in the 20th century if it hadn't been well planned. I get the feeling some information would have seemed 'out of the blue' like Dion Fortune's books about Dark Adepts, if the likes of Crowley didn't grab the headlines first.



posted on Feb, 26 2005 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by LogoWatch
And here we go, trying to discredit Jesus entirely because portions of the Bible had similarities to pagan religions.

By the way, don't tread off topic, it was you who brought up the Bishop's mitre, that is a man-made part of religion, it didn't come from Jesus. So don't accuse me of things I didn't do.



No. The bishops mitre came from Mithraism.
And I'm not trying to "discredit" Jesus. I believe that his teachings are the most pertinent words. But I do deny that the old pagan religions were set up by Satan just to "confuse" people. That's the easy way out of this argument.
Take a look at your Bible. The Old Testament contains references to earlier Bablyonian myth. Adam and Eve - The Enuma Elish. Noah's Ark - The Epic of Gilgamesh. Then take a look at your New Testament. Most of the miracles that Jesus performs have been undertaken by god figures well prior to the writing of the NT. Most of the ceremonies were undertaken in religions prior to Christianity. Most of the symbolism is present in religion prior to Chistianity.
If you want to use the "Well, it was Satan just fooling around before" argument, you leave yourself open to one massive flaw.
Why didn't Jesus do anything different? Why didn't he do anything that we could say "Hey. This stands out. This is what makes Jesus unique and original. This is why he's definitely not a pagan"?
Are you trying to tell me that God sent his only son to Earth just to have him beaten to the religion by Satan? That Satan could come down and create pagan religions that would be so confusing that if anyone seriously wanted to study Christ (which is the idea of Christianity after all) they would be led to the logical conclusion that Christianity is based in Paganism?
That would point out to me that Satan is more powerful than God, and I don't believe that for one second.



Akilles. Bacon never wrote the Masonic rituals. There's not even any proof that he was a Freemason. He certainly didn't write the Bible or Shakespeare.
Yet again we have another subject that you haven't studied.
Bacon spent most of his life in politics. It wasn't until relatively late and after he had fallen out of favour that he turned to his science and then writing. Although a prolific author, he simply didn't have the time to get involved in outside work as he was concentrating on his work to overhaul science. He died before this work was completed. He was frantically trying to create a new philosophy within science and was writing material that would illuminate this. It was a massive task leaving little room for anything else.
You could also try taking a look at who edited the KJV version of the Bible. The names are listed and Bacon isn't amongst them.



posted on Feb, 26 2005 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by akilles


Did I mention the Goddess Pallas Athena? She was the Spear Shaker...
Ma free Sons, huh? Goddess worship, using your bibs, I mean aprons to cover your phalluses...




Yet another one of your perverted little insinuations.
Aprons were worn by stonemasons. They don't cover the phallus. They protect the lower body whilst working and are a place to store the tools needed for the job. Or do all builders who wear protective clothing worship goddesses?

Whilst we're on anagrams? You come from Canada right? akilles....hmmm....."lik seal". Does this mean you have a bestiality problem?



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