I am 23, an American Citizen with government run health care., page 53

reply to post by iamjesusphish

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Someone told me that Canada has free healthcare. Maybe even England or Australia too, don't remember. I also heard that people standing in those lines to get said free health care give up the ghost and keel over and die because it took forever to get it. Hmmm. I don't know. I guess I have been lucky the past 15 years and haven't gotten sick, a cavity, 20/15 vision (yes it is better than 20/20) or broken a major bone. Why? Because I haven't had insurance! I know, I know, Murphy's Law. Well, I gotta wait a couple more months then the girlfriend will probably be allowed to add me to hers.

reply to post by logistix111

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Someone told you? Jeezuz, it isn't that hard to look up. In the UK it's called the NHS (National Health Service) and in Australia it's Medicare. No, nobody keels over while waiting for free medical service.

That service saves lives. Such as mine. And that service is free. What you have to wait for is elective surgery, not emergency treatment.

Simple fact is this: The US has the worst health care system of the developed world. And all this bull# about a "uniquely American solution" is because the health insurers don't want to give up the uniquely American abortion of a system they've got now that allows them to charge people beforehand for a service they won't get later. That is certainly uniquely American.

reply to post by SevenThunders

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With not much due respect, you don't understand reality.

1. No, I wasn't holding up the Khmer Rouge as an example to follow, I was showing that you have no clue what you're talking about when you start using terminology such as communist and socialist.

2. As for the embargo, who was Cuba's major trading partner prior to the embargo?

3. As for your "great inventions" trope, how many of them were invented in Europe or the UK? All of them.

The railroad, the car, the internal combustion engine were all invented in Europe, where every country has socialised medicine. The internet was invented by a Knight of the Realm who was born under the NHS and whose medical needs were provided for by the NHS.

As for your "crappy socialist" countries, no Australian bank went bust, broke or bankrupt, nor did they ask for a $ of federal funds while their American cousins were screaming, kicking and dying from their own greed, even although Australia has socialised medicine.

I guess it isn't only health care that is uniquely American in America.

reply to post by iamjesusphish

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And just why do you deserve to dip into my pocket without my permission to pay for your problems?

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish

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So, YOUR BAD CHOICES have been subsidized by my taxes.

You CHOSE to do drugs, and this caused health problems, but MY TAXES are paying for your rehab and your medical treatment.

Of course you want to keep your free health care going, Me and the rest of the american tax-payers are paying your bills!!!!!

America really has become a nation of leeches, your post is just another example of that.

So what you've never made a mistake in your life. Yes he did drugs and he ODed fine everyone deserves a second chance. How about you come take a walk in my shoes a while. Just one year. I want to see if you keep your smug attitude after you lose your job paying 80k a year and are forced to accept on paying less then half with crappy medical coverage. You try being told that your insurence will not cover lancing an extreamly painfull cyst because It's not "medical neccisity" You try being told that you have to pay $5000 to get dental work because your insurence only covers 15% You try have to pay $175.68 per week to cover your one child on the medical insurense but you only making $540 per week. You cant afford it. If is was not for government run health care my son would not have any health care. So you tell me what wrong with everyone being able to go to the hospital. I dont do drugs, Im not some gangsta, Im just your average joe who is trying to take care of his family with the best I got. Come walk a mile in my shoes I guarrentee you that after your done you will change your mind.

reply to post by redhatty

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I agree that if the game is played as it has been, gov't healthcare could very easily never become cheaper. I am saying however, that if people had much better access to preventative healthcare, there is a possability we could save money on healthcare. I cant say its a proven fact, but generally speaking, the sooner you catch a health problem, the easier and cheaper it is to solve it.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by redhatty

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I agree that if the game is played as it has been, gov't healthcare could very easily never become cheaper. I am saying however, that if people had much better access to preventative healthcare, there is a possability we could save money on healthcare. I cant say its a proven fact, but generally speaking, the sooner you catch a health problem, the easier and cheaper it is to solve it.

Very true, but the reality is that here in america, most people don't even acknowledge that something *could* be an issue until it affects their day to day life, and, no offense to the male species, but most men will literally be on their death bed before going to a doctor, with or without health insurance.

So much less expensive to outlaw poison artificial sweeteners (aspartame) and preservatives and require that foods stuffs sold actually contain an absorb able minimum of healthy requirements.

Health and nutrition education beginning in preschool (as well as having said schools provide truly healthy meal options) to keep the next generation from being obese type 1 & 2 diabetics with no genetic cause for the disease.

Change medical practice from symptomatic treatment to actual curative treatment

the list goes on & on

But no matter how long the list is, America will not change, nor will most of the rest of the world, when it comes to the actual practice of healthcare, we will all continue to treat symptoms rather than cure disease, postpone surgeries until there is no other alternative, regardless of how much the previous symptomatic treatment actually made things worse, and create a whole new generation of prescription drug addicts due to a national healthcare plan, because a doped up submissive populace, focused on American Idle, the latest celebrity dirt & overpriced sports shows is more effectively controlled than an alert, aware, healthy populace.

reply to post by redhatty

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"Very true, but the reality is that here in america, most people don't even acknowledge that something *could* be an issue until it affects their day to day life, and, no offense to the male species, but most men will literally be on their death bed before going to a doctor, with or without health insurance."

Hat's off to you RedHatty! that was one of the most insightful simple comments I've read in a very long time. this country is so dam slow to change, to accept change unless they are faced with it directly! we are as isolated from the rest of the world as we ever were and believe everything we read in the news..

Now you may not agree with this part - but its just like how we hear in the news that so many come to america b/c of our great surgeons and that people have to wait for years or months for care in other countries like Australia or England - fact of the matter, this is just not true. my relatives who just so happen to be in England and Australia get furious over America's treatment and media coverage on other nations foreign healthcare b/c its just not true. they have just as many ppl from 3rd world countries who need to separate siamese twins or come there to try out a new cancer treatment in their country just like in the U.S. their mortality rate is lower b/c of their health systems. so i don't know if a universal health plan is the answer but its the insurance companies who keep closed records so we can't see how or where their profits come from and are preventing this from being pushed thru. i do know that 15years ago when this was trying to be pushed thru that the same reasons were brought up, healthcare is too expensive, we can't afford it, but let's do something else instead of UHC plan, and guess what? the plan wasn't pushed thru and NOTHING was done in return. here we are 15years later and things have gotten only worse and they will continue to get worse. so if we do away with a Universal plan, then we need to start coming up with suggestions instead of complaints.

Also, people in this forum have cried foul saying they don't want to pay for other peoples problems. they don't want to pay for other peoples healthcare. I think that is a bit vain. I would much rather see my money going to pay for someone's cancer treatment than to pay $1mm for a missile to be fired at some Iraqi's - !

Originally posted by pacific_waters
reply to post by iamjesusphish

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And just why do you deserve to dip into my pocket without my permission to pay for your problems?

You should be happy to do it because it is the HUMAN thing to do. How did we get to the point as a society where we only think about ourselves?

If you are doing ok then you better break bread and feed your people. You don't think other people want to eat too?

Its time to break bread. Why don't you people understand this?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
reply to post by logistix111

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Someone told you? Jeezuz, it isn't that hard to look up. In the UK it's called the NHS (National Health Service) and in Australia it's Medicare. No, nobody keels over while waiting for free medical service.

That service saves lives. Such as mine. And that service is free. What you have to wait for is elective surgery, not emergency treatment.

Simple fact is this: The US has the worst health care system of the developed world. And all this bull# about a "uniquely American solution" is because the health insurers don't want to give up the uniquely American abortion of a system they've got now that allows them to charge people beforehand for a service they won't get later. That is certainly uniquely American.

reply to post by SevenThunders

---

With not much due respect, you don't understand reality.

1. No, I wasn't holding up the Khmer Rouge as an example to follow, I was showing that you have no clue what you're talking about when you start using terminology such as communist and socialist.

2. As for the embargo, who was Cuba's major trading partner prior to the embargo?

3. As for your "great inventions" trope, how many of them were invented in Europe or the UK? All of them.

The railroad, the car, the internal combustion engine were all invented in Europe, where every country has socialised medicine. The internet was invented by a Knight of the Realm who was born under the NHS and whose medical needs were provided for by the NHS.

As for your "crappy socialist" countries, no Australian bank went bust, broke or bankrupt, nor did they ask for a $ of federal funds while their American cousins were screaming, kicking and dying from their own greed, even although Australia has socialised medicine.

I guess it isn't only health care that is uniquely American in America.

SEVEN THUNDER... I just had to congratulate you on your post. You hit the nail right on the head. Ive been around the world as a traveler, and have even lived for a few months at a time in places like UK, Australia, New Zealand, who have great health care for all. In fact, once when spending 3 months in Melbourne , my 3 year old son became ill. We went to the hospital. He was seen in less than 30 minutes, treated with attention and care I have only seen at our private pediatrician here, and when I pulled out my credit card to pay the bill, I was told No way. And even handed a prescription for a base price of $20.

The US use to be a top contender for best health care, but that was when we had a strong middle class, low unemployment, Doctors weren't all specialist at $200 for a minute visit, CEO's were not making 4000 times the average workers wage, CEO's like the now gov of Florida Rick Scott were not ripping off the medical system for billions of dollars, and When a good steady profit was considered a great thing and companies were not being blackmailed into continued high profit growth or analyst would ruin their stock values with their words.

Then a few well positioned and powerful sociopaths got control of politicians, schools and many corporations and in their campaign to control it all, they ruined the whole country. All in the name of power and more and more profit. Face it, when you have 100 million in the bank, how much more do you really need? But they continue to take it from the working people, and the country as a whole, destroying the country, the people, and all.

Fighting health care was their way to keep control, power, and profits on the rise. They want no rules or regulations for themselves, but insist on enforcing their will upon the rest of us, and demand the gov enforce their will. I'm just waiting for the day when a real disaster in health care happens, and the rich and greedy run in panic , crying about why the gov doesn't provide health care to the ill people, to protect the rich from being surrounded by masses with deadly diseases. Maybe it will take an Ebola or black plague out break before they wake up from their sociopath bubble.

I applaud universal health care for all. I like the idea of not having the wonder if someone has been checked out for TB or worse when they cough standing next to me in an elevator. But with our greed driven system, I worry each time.



Oh, I just wanted to add, I know people who moved here from other countries, that buy plane tickets to go home for medical treatment when they are ill. Air fare is cheaper than paying the cost of care here. I even know a Pharmacist , who is from Russia , and she flies home for care in Russia because she saves so much money doing it, even with her insurance wal greens gives her. !! Says a lot about our system here I think.

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish

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So, YOUR BAD CHOICES have been subsidized by my taxes.

You CHOSE to do drugs, and this caused health problems, but MY TAXES are paying for your rehab and your medical treatment.

Of course you want to keep your free health care going, Me and the rest of the american tax-payers are paying your bills!!!!!

America really has become a nation of leeches, your post is just another example of that.

OK, I will tell of my own case. I do not do drugs, and am not a drunk. I was a truck driver, hauling food products to plants that produce food for human consumption. I had a load on of soy sauce, and went off the road because of water in the road, rolled over the semi, and broke my back and neck. I had worked all my adult life, and now I am disabled for life. I did not ask for this, and do not wish it to be, but it is. So, am I one of these leeches you speak of? Are you feeling bad because your taxes help me with my medical problems? Just asking, you seemed to be pretty down on anyone getting Medicaid.

Originally posted by pacific_waters
reply to post by iamjesusphish

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And just why do you deserve to dip into my pocket without my permission to pay for your problems?

have you ever heard of the concept of the greater good? Because it makes the country a better place for you and your family. This country was started on everyone helping each other. Do you think the pilgrims made it by being greedy and keeping everything for themselves? Its never going to be fair for everyone, there will always be moochers, you cant avoid it. But by making sure they are not carrying the Plague, you increase your safety. By making having health care for everyone, companies dont have to fund it on their own, you dont have it taken out of your check by the company, people dont miss work as much, people arent as likely to bring viruses to work and make several ill, and if they do, they can all get treated. Your kids dont have to be in school with someone who could likely carry a nasty disease and pass it to your kids, then you, and so on. Less days missed, cost savings for companies, no burden or loss of homes and savings when you get ill, and you will get ill someday. Sure, its not perfect, but its better that what we have now. So unless your a totally selfish greedy uncaring sociopath, you shouldnt be upset about the idea of a National health care system. It would most likely cost less than your paying now, unless you in a position were yours is paid 100%. Now if your a CEO, or a wanna be CEO. I can undestand your lack of compassion or common sense of the greater good for your country and your fellow Americans.


The problem I see is not so much paying for it. It the corporations getting their fingers into the pot, and influencing the politicians with lobbyist to make sure they get more than they should. Dont think our wonderful American Capitalist would do that? Look around. I give you Rick Scott, now gov of Florida for a prime example.
That is where the problems will come in. Not the poor family getting treatment.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by iamjesusphish

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So, YOUR BAD CHOICES have been subsidized by my taxes.

You CHOSE to do drugs, and this caused health problems, but MY TAXES are paying for your rehab and your medical treatment.

Of course you want to keep your free health care going, Me and the rest of the american tax-payers are paying your bills!!!!!

America really has become a nation of leeches, your post is just another example of that.

OK, I will tell of my own case. I do not do drugs, and am not a drunk. I was a truck driver, hauling food products to plants that produce food for human consumption. I had a load on of soy sauce, and went off the road because of water in the road, rolled over the semi, and broke my back and neck. I had worked all my adult life, and now I am disabled for life. I did not ask for this, and do not wish it to be, but it is. So, am I one of these leeches you speak of? Are you feeling bad because your taxes help me with my medical problems? Just asking, you seemed to be pretty down on anyone getting Medicaid.

Let me guess, your on Medicaid because you company and the insurance company fought tooth and nail not to pay you a dime. I know what your feeling. I know it well. It happens every day. Companies , and insurance companies, dont care about people. Only profit. You didnt ask for your disability, but people treat you like you did this to yourself on purpose. I very much know your pain brother. I have seen in up close and personal in my own family.

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