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La Santa Muerte

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posted on Jun, 18 2010 @ 10:53 PM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

There is some new stuff on Santa Muerte from Rick Ross's Cult Education Forum (which is a deeply marvellous source on all type of cult/new-religion subjects, oh yes it is) Catholics and the Santa Muerte Cult

This excerpt is just a snippet, to pique on through for sure...

But mostly I am motivated by my belief that this general belief-cult is being heavily promoted as a tactic of low-grade terrorism by genuine destructive cults in the gang war that has spilled over the southern US border. It is being used to prevent effective neighborly relations between American Latinos (especialy Mexicans) and non-Hispanic Catholics. It is part of a strategy that began to appear in the early years of the establishment of "Culture Councils" with NEA money in the USA. I was an appointed member of one of the original such councils, before the emergence of the death-cult, and so I was able to watch its emergence. I eventually worked as a consultant on several projects that involved Santa Muerte-related art...

One of the sources referenced there on the Rick Ross above is a blog entry, from which I'm also pinching only a little excerpt right now...

Fun with Mexican death cults

I turned in my paper without speaking to Carmelo about Santa Muerte, but I can’t stop thinking about the cult allegations and wondering how much merit they contain. Although my first instinct is to dismiss the Catholic Church’s description of Santa Muerte’s followers as a “cult,” I believe there are cult-like characteristics of the practices. Last fall, I wrote an article for the USC newspaper about a presentation on cults given by a USC professor, so I did some pretty extensive research and interviews on the topic. The professor said that “cult” is a loaded word in general, and that the term “high-demand group” is usually a better descriptor. She said one common characteristic of high-demand groups is that they don’t let members leave. Santa Muerte’s followers say that once you pledge your devotion to her, you must continue to worship her for the rest of your life; otherwise, a family member is likely to become ill and die. So although nobody is physically forcing followers to stay in the group, there might be an element of psychological terror involved. They are literally told that people they love will be struck down if they stop worshiping Santa Muerte, who I already mentioned is considered a vain and jealous saint.

I have seen that same concept about losing a family member referenced (through being vociferously denied) somewhere on the Univision Santa Muerte forum...When I run into it again and/or soon, I'll post that cross-reference...

Here's a video from a band called Santa Muerte, song is "stumblin blind"

Here is the link to a forum of/for/on the Santa Muerte Motorcycle Club, that has been referenced previously in the thread...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 01:22 PM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

Here is another "political/criminal" take on the subject, for want of a better term...the author is Hakim Hazim, the link is to June 17, 2010...

Let Loose the Gods of War

" Listen bro; you don’t ask to see Santa Muerte unless you are going to buy one. She is the real deal and I could get in trouble. It’s very Catholic here, (Cozumel) and illegal for me to sell it. I’ll show you if you are serious, but it will cost you one way or another in pesos or bad luck. ”

This was one of the responses I received from a young man during my eight day trip to the Cancun area of Mexico. The farther I traveled from the concentrated tourist parts of Cancun, Cozumel, and Playa Del Carmen, the more I would hear very candid responses regarding my questions regarding her emergence. I was asked several times if I believed in her. Each time I responded: “No, just curious.” Some looked at me with intrigue and gave more information about her, others gave me a rebuke with a stern warning not to “mess with her; she’s a devil!” I came away with one primary conviction, there is a religious revival in Mexico, and it’s a dark one.

I’ve mused and stated since 1993 that cults and extremism were on the rise. Curiosity gave birth to study and later confirmation. The world has witnessed the emergence of new versions of faith coupled with bloodthirsty gods of war and vengeance. They will remain with us far into the foreseeable future according one eminent scholar.

Martin van Creveld stated:

In the future, war will not be waged by armies but by groups whom we today call terrorists, guerrillas, bandits, and robbers, but who will undoubtedly hit on more formal titles to describe themselves. Their organizations are likely to be constructed on charismatic lines rather than institutional ones, and to be motivated less by “professionalism” than by fanatical, ideologically-based, loyalties. While clearly subject to some kind of leadership with coercive powers at its disposal, that leadership will be hardly distinguishable from the organization as a whole; hence it will bear greater similarity to “The Old Man of the Mountains” than to institutionalized government as the modern world has come to understand that term.

My research defines extremism as one symptom of the fissuring and fracturing of traditional capital cohesion (the ability of leaders to maintain influence and sway over their followers). Mexico is a perfect example of this and corruption at all levels fuels the unraveling of the state apparatus ... In recent years extremism has added fuel to this movement. Life and death issues and the thrill of battle and bloodshed, coupled with spirituality, can prove addictive for some. Extremist movements that call for violence against the state will have no shortage of willing participants. Not only are the new leaders of these movements skilled in the art of violence; they are charismatic preachers and their followers are zealously fighting against members of different faiths.

La Familia has its version of Christianity. Los Zetas and other cartels deify Santa Muerte. Some prefer the Aztec gods of war. The ideology creates followers and binds them to a higher power than the immediate leader. In February of 2009 I wrote these words and I think they are worth revisiting:

A familiar pattern is forming; criminal soldiers are creating disciples among a disaffected Hispanic population. It’s the latest craze in radicalization. Shrewd criminal networks and gangs are now acting upon the tenets of the Saint of Death in hopes of creating an even stronger bond with their members and solidifying their claims to authority by adding religious identity. Mexico and the state of Texas are the most fertile grounds for an expanding movement toward Santisma Muerte. The new preachers may soon pose a greater threat to international security by promising a holy death to their recruits and filling them with fervor unmatched by typical criminal orgs and gangs.

The fervor has helped push the death toll pass 23,000 and Holy Death has welcomed many into her bosom.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

And this next link is to the earlier article of his that Hakim Hazim just referenced in that last bit...again in February 23, 2009...

Santisma Muerte: A Troubling Trend in Radicalization

“I don’t know Hakim. This isn’t typical; it’s spreading. I’ve worked here for a few years now and this is different. The inmates are doing some strange religious stuff. We know they are praying, but we don’t know who they are praying to.” LASD Deputy

... Criminals have no regard for law; it’s the very reason they flee from justice. But they do want faith. They seek help with their endeavors and seek a different apostle, god or saint if you will. They crave a relationship with someone who will allow them to operate outside of the law while granting protection, forgiving sins, and striking fear into the hearts of their enemies. If I was a criminal this might work for me; I might convert to some form of Santisma Muerte , as long as I can drop a few hexes along the way.

... In fact, ideas about faith, ethnicity, culture and identity itself are being captured in diverse forms of indoctrination through questionable mentors who seek to undermine any form of legitimate rule of law. These practices are common with cults, sects, insurgents and revolt leaders. A familiar pattern is forming; criminal soldiers are creating disciples among a disaffected Hispanic population. It’s the latest craze in radicalization. Shrewd criminal networks and gangs are now acting upon the tenets of the Saint of Death in hopes of creating an even stronger bond with their members and solidifying their claims to authority by adding religious identity. Mexico and the state of Texas are the most fertile grounds for an expanding movement toward Santisma Muerte. The new preachers may soon pose a greater threat to international security by promising a holy death to their recruits and filling them with fervor unmatched by typical criminal orgs and gangs.

Recently one of my consultants returned from Juarez, Mexico and El Paso, Texas with firsthand accounts of what she witnessed the few days she was there. The four most important findings are listed below ...

2. One of the photos taken on the trip was of the Cross of Nails. The symbolism spelled out what every nail attests to – a female that has been reported missing. Folks in Juarez and El Paso echoed chilling sentiments concerning the alleged abductions; “They were all killed or kidnapped.” She was told that these most of them were rumored to be given to gang members or drug cartels as gifts, especially if they were virgins. The rumor mill insisted that the Mexican police were involved, whether true or not, this belief is wide spread. Many family members have turned to Santisma Muerte as a result of their lack of faith or trust in the police or the protection of traditional saints. Protection is all important in this area and many turn to superstition and red or black magic for peace of mind. Red magic is for the purpose of helping your cause, whereas black is intended to inflict harm on adversaries ...

4. Santa Muerte is spreading and many she spoke to believe in the ancient lady of death. They enthusiastically reflected on her power and spoke convincingly to my consultant. “She gives us miracles and she protects us from violence.” Because of the popularity of this saint, people also feel they need to show others they believe with them, in order to remain in good standing. The ordinary person who follows this also believes in traditional Catholicism, while the hardened criminal opts for only the saint and divests himself from any form of Catholicism whatsoever.

Santisma Muerte is not in and of itself something to be overly concerned about when practiced by ordinary citizens. The cause of concern should be when versions of this faith are being used by criminal organizations, gangs and inmates in order to justify their actions and gain assistance in their pursuits. Such belief fuels criminal activity and emboldens those who feel they can actually get away with their crime because of supernatural aid. Radicalization is prevalent in many terrorist circles and Santisma Muerte is associated with Catholicism by many Mexican believers, in spite of the churches repudiation of the practice. In short, radicalization is a movement not based in any particular faith, it is an innate revolt based in the renunciation of loyalty or devotion to previous beliefs; it is a revolt against previous ideas, mores and customs. Criminals who have an unbridled lust for things will come up with more creative ways to radicalize themselves and their followers. Like termites, they will eat away at the foundations wherever they reside.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

And this here is another prominent Santa Muerte devotee site...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 06:11 PM
Returning to Kevin Freese...which I should have done before already... The Death Cult of the Drug Lords

Another theory is that the cult came from Yoruba traditions, being handed down from African slaves brought to the Americas and transmitted to Mexico through, or parallel to, the Cuban tradition of Santeria, the Brazilian tradition of Palo Mayombe, or the Haitian tradition of Voodoo. All of these practices are synchronistic traditions that emerged from the interaction between African animistic and polytheistic traditions with traditional saint-worship in Catholic Christianity. According to this theory, Santa Muerte is actually a variation of the Santeria orishas (spiritual entities) Oyá, goddess of storms, and/or Yewá, goddess of the underworld, who, according to Santeria beliefs, brings bodies of the dead to Oyá. She could also be a variation of Centella Endoki AKA Mama Wanga, ruler of cemeteries, who is a Palo Mayombe version of the Santeria Oyá. Finally, the tradition could trace back to the Voodoo entity Maman Brigitte, who is also a counterpart to Oyá and Centella Endoki. A third theory is that Santa Muerte appeared in a vision to a nineteenth century witchdoctor (brujo chamán) in the village of Orizaba, Veracruz and ordered the creation of the cult.
Such theories may be ill founded, according to Elsa Malvido Miranda, a researcher for the Historical Studies Directorate (DEH) (Dirección de Estudios Históricos) of the Mexican National Anthropology and History Institute (INAH) (Instituto Nacional de Antropología e Historia). Malvido argues that the cult can be traced back to mediaeval Europe. Especially during times of plague and epidemic, people would offer devotions to skeletal figures, which were even associated with miraculous cures. According to Fernán Pavía Farrera, a historian from Tuxtla Gutiérrez, Chiapas, such traditions may have spread to the Americas through the cult of the Spanish Saint Pascual Bailon (also called San Pascualito and Santo de los Pobres), who lived from 17 May 1540 until 17 May 1592. San Pascualito reportedly appeared in visions to indigenous peoples in Valle de Guatemala during a plague in 1601, for which he was attributed with healing miracles. He became known as a “protector of the Indians” [protector de los indios]. His image was venerated in the form of a crowned skeleton.
The San Pascualito theory is especially interesting because of another unofficial Latin American saint, Maximón, also known as San Simón. Maximón is a roguish entity worshipped in approximately 20 places in Guatemala. He is a pseudo-deification of the conquistador Pedro de Alvarado,who seems to have been synchronized with the Mayan underworld deity, Maam, or Rilaj Maam, who is the “most revered god of the Tzutuhil pantheon,” and is found among Mayan descendants, notably the Quiches and Tzutuhiles of Guatemala. Like San Pascualito, he is associated, in particular, with Holy Week celebrations. Like Santa Muerte, Maximón is worshipped by leaving offerings of candles, alcohol, tobacco, candy, or personal items. Also like Santa Muerte, Maximón is a patron of people on the fringe of the society – in Maximón’s case, drunkards and gamblers. Consequently, Maximón shares a similar geography and seasonal association with Santa Muerte’s likely progenitor as well as a similarity in method of worship and followers with Santa Muerte herself.
Regardless of how it may have originated, the cult has become a major phenomenon only recently. According to Blanquita Tamez, a practitioner of the cult from Monterrey, Nuevo León, her grandmother was a Santa Muerte devotee. This suggests that the cult has been around since at least the mid-20th century. It spread more rapidly in Mexico during the mid-1960s. It appeared in Hidalgo in 1965. It also established roots in Mexico State, Guerrero, Veracruz, Tamaulipas, Campeche, Morelos, Nuevo León, Chihuahua, and the Federal District, especially the barrio of Tepito.
Although they are prima facie contradictory, the different accounts Santa Muerte’s history are still telling because what practitioners choose to believe about their cult’s history is in many ways as interesting as what its true origins may be. They also have certain themes in common. The cult is associated with indigenous peoples, blending Catholic and pagan beliefs. The cult is associated with people on the fringe of Mexican society – slaves, indigenous peoples, the poor, and criminals.
In 2004, the Santa Muerte shrine itself was the scene of a violent crime. Eber Lazcano Cortes AKA El Eber, 23, of Tepito, considered himself to be an expert knife-fighter, having killed two people with a knife and injured a Federal Investigative Agency (AFI) (Agencia Federal de Investigaciones) officer in Colonia Morelos. He purportedly learned knife fighting during a three-year sentence at the Northern Prison, where he claims he had to “kill to survive.” On 20 October 2004, Lacanzo, who had been making a living by washing cars, got into an argument with another car-washer, by the name of David. David’s brother-in-law, Pedro Vélez Ledezma, tried to calm things down, but Lazcano turned on him. At that point, some of Vélez’ relatives got involved and beat up Lazcano. Lazcano left, but came back with four friends, chased Vélez down, and, while his friends held him by the neck, Lazcano stabbed Vélez in the chest, killing him, in front of the Santa Muerte Chapel. On 14 November 2004, Federal District Preventive Police (Policías preventivos del Distrito Federal) officers tracked down Lazcano and arrested him for homicide.
This is not the only time that Santa Muerte has witnessed crime in front of her chapel. On 13 May 2005, unknown assailants in a grey Jeep Grand Cherokee chased a stolen white Audi driven by Oscar Alberto Garcia Angels AKA El Asesino [the Assassin], 25 and Oscar Adrian Gamboa Solis, 23, leaders of the gang Los Sapos, as well as another gang member named Raquel, 23. The chase occurred between Miguel Dominguez Street and Ferrocarril de Cintura Street in Tepito. During the pursuit, the occupants of the Jeep fired shots at the Audi. The Audi stopped at the Santa Muerte Chapel, where the Jeep’s occupants got out of their vehicle and continued firing, hitting Gamboa, in the head and chest and Garcia and Raquel in the neck. All three survived, but Raquel was later declared brain dead. Gamboa had been wanted for murder. The victims were allegedly involved in the killing of a rival coc aine trafficker; the attack was part of an ongoing gang war.
In both of these cases, a chase led to the Santa Muerte Chapel, where the crimes occurred. In the first case, it is unclear whether the victim fled to the Santa Muerte shrine, whether the perpetrator chose the shrine as the place to commit the crime, or whether it was the coincidental end of the chase. In the second case, it appears that the victims, themselves criminals, deliberately went to the shrine – perhaps to seek protection or asylum, or at least a fortified position. This seems likely, considering the context of Santa Muerte worship, which has an “unspoken rule that at Santa Muerte’s shrine, worshippers pray in safety by day and by night….”
According to Mexican author Homero Aridjis, “Santa Muerte not only protects (the criminals) from betrayal and ambush, but also can be an agent in their favor against enemies, causing them harm, or death.” She is a “virgin saint in the religion of crime.” Aridjis’ recent novel, Santa Muerte, is a fictionalization of what he alleges are actual events. In it, he states that he first discovered the cult while attending a party attended by drug traffickers and corrupt government officials in the 1990s. He became fascinated with the cult, researched it, and wrote the novel.
Despite their hopes, in both of the above cases, Santa Muerte’s shrine did not provide protection. However, other devotees claim that she has afforded them sanctuary. Salvador Cuellar, a 33-year-old mechanic, claims to have been threatened by people who wanted to kill him. Once he invoked Santa Muerte, this changed. “I believe in the Virgin and other saints,” said Cuellar. “But the one who has helped me more is the Santa Muerte.”
Convicted criminals also pray to Santa Muerte for help and protection. Eduardo Martinez, 22, was recently released from the Eastern Prison in the Federal District, where he had served two years during his trial for armed robbery. When he was down to four months remaining on his sentence, guards found “a 45 cm piece of iron in the shape of a knife” in his cell. Martinez, understanding that the punishment for possession of a contraband weapon was a sentence extension of six months, prayed to Santa Muerte, “I asked not to be given more time because I only had four months left. I said to her that I would offer her my skin, and that was going to be the first tattoo that there would be on my skin. Then, after five days, she freed me and I did not have any more punishment – I was totally acquitted. For me, it was a miracle.” His acquittal was not simply acquittal from the contraband possession charge – he seems to have been acquitted of the robbery for which he had been convicted. The authorities apologized. However, this was not his only charge. He also called upon Santa Muerte for assistance in another trial on a similar charge. He offered to abstain from drugs for two years and light two candles to Santa Muerte in each of her chapels. He credited her with two miracles, stating, “The Lord Jesus Christ is my only savior and the Virgin is his mother, but the only one certain is Santa Muerte.”...

posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 06:25 PM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

Continuing with Kevin Freese, exactly where the last post left off...

...Martínez is not alone in such sentiments. On 12 October 2003, 41 convicted drug traffickers, murderers, thieves, and rapists were granted early release from the Federal District’s East Prison (Reclusorio Oriente) for good behavior. One of those released was Jesús González Ochoa, 26, of Peralvillo and Libertad Streets, in Tepito. González had five previous convictions for robbing passersby. Unlike his fellow parolees, González had no one present to greet him. His family was unaware of, or uninterested in, his release. He had no money, but he kissed an amulet of Santa Muerte that he kept next to his heart. A stranger gave him 50 pesos to pay his way home. He used it to buy beer, stating, “Now, yes, I am free.”
Some Santa Muerte practitioners have taken their worship to the extreme. On 19 May 1999, Preventive Police arrested Inocencio García López, along with his wife, Luisa Martínez Aguilar, and his two sons, Raúl Paulino Martínez Aguilar and Raúl Ramírez Aguilar, for the murder of José Trinidad Silva Leyva and the wounding of Alfredo Lugos Olmedo in the city center of Tlaxiaco, Oaxaca, as part of an ongoing dispute. García was sentenced to 38 years incarceration; his wife and sons were each sentenced two 32½ years. In October 2004, García committed suicide by hanging himself in his cell. In a suicide note, he left financial information to cover the cost of his burial. He also accused his wife of having an affair with another prisoner and blamed this for his suicide. On the back of a photograph of his wife, taken when she was pregnant, he accused her of being culpable in the death of a certain Francisco Barragán Moreno. He also wrote a prayer to Santa Muerte, asking her to be with him in his suicide.
García’s case is not the only one of a suicide linked to Santa Muerte. Javier Hernández Pacheco, a devotee of Santa Muerte, hanged himself from a tree in his patio while his four-year-old son watched. The suicide occurred on 13 July 2005, when his wife, Lilia Esperanza Murillo Santiago, left him and their four-year-old son, Didier Hernández Murillo, at their home in Colonia Leandor Valle in the municipality of Kanasín, Yucatán, while she went shopping for groceries. After returning home, she realized that she had forgotten something. She asked her husband to take Didier inside while she returned to the store to buy a soft drink. When she returned later, she saw her son standing in the doorway. He told her that his father was hanging in the patio. When she entered, she found her husband hanging from the clothesline. According to the boy, his father had asked him to wait in his room while he prayed to his Godmother [Madrina]. Didier went to his room but, hearing strange sounds from the patio, looked outside to see his father hang himself. Lilia stated that her husband had been acting strangely recently; she attributed his suicide to his Santa Muerte practices.
Both of these suicides stand out as examples of how Santa Muerte can enable activities that are otherwise socially unacceptable. Since suicide is completely unacceptable in Christianity, no Catholic saint could be called upon for a blessing in such an act. With Santa Meurte, these individuals were able to find a spiritual being who would allow – and therefore possibly enable – their deaths. Such reasoning is easily transferable to other sinful and probably illegal acts.

Criminals Carry Accoutrements of Santa Muerte

If Santa Muerte is associated with one crime in particular, it seems to be kidnapping. An example of this occurred on 22 March 2005, when personnel from office of the Assistant Attorney General for Specialized Investigations into Organized Crime (SIEDO) (Subprocuraduría de Investigación Especializada en Delincuencia Organizada) and AFI in the Colonia La Nopalera, Iztapalapa Delegation, Mexico City, arrested six individuals that were allegedly involved in the kidnapping of a minor in Morelos. Among those arrested was businessman Francisco Miguel Cerqueda López AKA El Mickey, 33. Cerqueda was a resident of the San Rafael Atlixco Habitation Unit, Building B-9, Suite 101, in Colonia Zapotitlán, Tláhuac Delegation, Mexico City. He was identified as the gang’s leader. Also arrested was businessman Cruz Ramírez Sánchez AKA El Cruz, 28. Ramírez resided at 23 Arnulfo R. Gómez Street, in Colonia Caracol. He allegedly made telephone calls to victims’ families. Another arrested member of the gang was businessman Víctor Manuel Pérez Ibarra AKA El Chino, 32. He resided at Hidalgo Unit No. 10, Building 3-C, Suite 303, in the Azcapotzalco Delegation. Pérez guarded the victims. He also maintained a safe house at 5890 Tláhuac Avenue, in Colonia La Nopalera, Tláhuac Delegation. A fourth member of the gang was businessman Marcos Martínez Ruiz AKA El Tala, 29. He lived at 106 Ramos Millán Sur Street, in the Iztacalco Delegation. Like Pérez, Martínez guarded victims. He also directly participated in the kidnappings. The fifth arrested gang member was Gerardo de la Torre Guizado AKA El Gerad, 30, a blue-collar worker of an unspecified trade from 20 Galicia Street, in Colonia Cerro de la Estrella, Iztapalapa Delegation. He also guarded the victims. The final arrested member of the gang was janitor José Luis Palma Bermejo AKA El Pelón, 27. Palma lived at an unnumbered residence at Mar de las Crisis Street and Montes Apeninos Street, in Colonia Selene, Tláhuac Delegation. Palma was responsible for casing the victims. While carrying out the arrests, the agents also seized a red, 1993 Chevrolet Hunter pickup without license plates that was registered to Liliana Hernández Martínez, a grey Chevrolet Astro SUV without license plates, A 9mm Glock pistol with registration number MN656, 93 9mm rounds, $(USD) 73,740.00 cash, eight cellular telephones of various brands, and six identification credentials.
At one point, the operation was nearly interrupted by Federal District SSP officers. The Office of the Federal Attorney General (PGR) (Procuraduria General de la Republica) initially blamed the mistake on poor inter-agency coordination and began an investigation. SIEDO personnel interrogated 70 Preventive Police (Policías Preventivos) Officers from the Federal District Public Safety Office (SSPDF) (Secretaría de Seguridad Pública del Distrito Federal). SIEDO was concerned about whether police had been providing protection to drug trafficking and kidnapping gangs, leading to conflict between the agencies.

The arrest report filed by the PGR included photographs of the arrestees. Most of these are standard mug shots with the word detenido [arrested] superimposed, which is frequently the procedure of the PGR Internet site. One of these photos shows a tattoo on Perez’ left shoulder blade, covering most of it. The tattoo is a large image of Death, covered in a shawl or hood, brandishing a scythe in what appears to be a threatening manner. Although the resolution is poor, it appears that there is a halo or crown around the head of Death, suggesting that it is very likely Santa Muerte. Other photos in the report show tattoos on Martinez and Ramirez. The images are of too low a resolution to be certain, but the tattoo on the upper left side of Martinez’ chest may also be a figure of Death holding a scythe.
In December 2004, Public Safety personnel conducted an operation at the intersection of Paseo de las Cañadas and Aztecas Streets in the Monraz housing estate in Guadalajara, Jalisco. The officers arrested José Gil Caro Quintero AKA José Luis Reyes Hernández, José Belem Mendoza Flores AKA José Delem Mendoza Flores, Francisco Rodríguez Ayala AKA Franciso Rodríguez Ayala, Paul Villa Araujo AKA Julio César Lazcano Salazar, and Óscar Meza Alvarado on drug trafficking charges. The five suspects were allegedly core members of the gang Los Norteños, which operated in Jalisco, Morelos, and Veracruz. At the time of their arrests, the alleged gang members were traveling aboard two vehicles: A black, armored 2002 BMW X5 with electric locks and door handles and a gray, 2005 Volvo XC90. At the scene, the arresting officers seized four Kenwood portable radios, a magazine pouch, four magazines, 22 7.62 caliber rounds, a Colt .22, a .45 and two .38 Specials. One of the .38 Specials was encrusted with a Santa Muerte figure in gold and gems.
Julio César Cortazar, 26, and Jorge Oswaldo González Barra, 20, boarded a passenger bus at the intersection of Avenida de Tlalpan and Periférico, on the edge of the Tlalpan delegation of Mexico City, in February 2004. One of them drew a Titan .25 caliber pistol and demanded the passengers surrender their valuables. The two took the money, struck the driver, threatened the passengers, and fled the scene. One of the passengers flagged down nearby Federal Preventive Police (PFP) (Policía Federal Preventiva) officers, who pursued César and González to the intersection of Moctezuma and Fuentes streets, in the Toriello Guerra colonia. One of the suspects fired at the police officers with the pistol multiple times, but the officers managed to arrest the two. The police officers found cash, valuables, and identification belonging to the bus passengers. Both of the suspects exhibited tattoos of Santa Muerte on various parts of their bodies. They also wore rings and were carrying votive jewelry (dijes or milagros) depicting the Santa Muerte ...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 07:34 PM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

Wow, so check it out...what I thought was a poem (about the white rose at the sight of which the heart surrenders itself) turns out to be from (or partly anyways) the lyrics of a song...I found this out while checking out this here video, which is playing (some of) the song as background-music/soundtrack...

Anyways, I think I should logically finish the thought with Kevin Freese for a minute...from the FMSO government document = an above-average use of tax dollars... The Death Cult of the Drug Lords

Santa Muerte Has Following in Major Criminal Organizations
It is not mere street thugs who are practitioners of the Santa Muerte cult. At least two incidents associated with Osiel Cárdenas Guillén’s powerful Gulf Cartel have been crowned by the presence of Santa Muerte paraphernalia. The first incident occurred on 09 April 2001, when the Mexican Army raided a mansion in a Tamaulipas village. The residence belonged to Gilberto García Mena AKA El June, a Gulf Cartel cell leader who was fascinated by the mysterious and who mutilated his enemies. The soldiers arrested García when they found him hiding in a secret, underground chamber in the house. While searching the property, the agents discovered a hut in his garden, which served as a chapel. Inside, they found a stature of Santa Muerte surrounded by candles and offerings that García had given in hopes of power and protection.
More recently, in August 2004, Mexican Army personnel raided a house located at 510 Montañas Rocallosas Street and Montes Cárpatos Street, in the Lomas de Virreyes colonia, a residential area of Mexico City. The house had been used by members of the Gulf Cartel as a laboratory to process coc aine before shipping the drug to Tamaulipas [and, presumably, on to the U.S.]. They had been renting the house for at least three months. There, amid posters of bikini-clad and nude women, computers, and various bottles of liquor, was an altar with several amulets to St. Jude as well as an amulet to Santa Muerte.
A singular incident involving a Gulf Cartel member who happened to be a devotee of Santa Muerte would be interest but of little real concern. The appearance of cult items in separate incidents, one near the U.S. border and one in Mexico City, three years apart suggests that the cult may pervade the cartel.
In addition to the major drug cartels, the cult also seems to have reached the infamous Latin American youth gangs. On 27 March 2005, Milenio journalist Juan Dios Garcia Davish published an interview with Carlos Eduardo Pavon AKA El Cuervo, a Honduran citizen and a leader of the gang Mara Salvatrucha AKA MS-13. At the time of the interview, Pavon was incarcerated in the Tapachula State Prison in Tapachula, Chiapas. He had been arrested in December 2003. During the interview, Pavon accused the news media of publishing lies about Mara Salvatrucha. While carrying a wallet with the image of Santa Muerte, Pavon denied apparent allegations that his gang is Satanic, stating, “You are not satanic just because you leave a couple of candles lit. We only believe in God. No one else, not even in Our Lady of Guadalupe.” However, Pavon then laughed at the interviewer. He later revealed the tattoos on his back, which included a large “MS13”, male and female clown faces, the words “Satanic Member”, and a skeletal hand of death.
In the interview, Pavon was not defending and commenting about himself. He was speaking about his gang cell and, probably, the Mara Salvatrucha as a whole. He used the word “we” when denying Satanic practices, implying that many or all of the gang members were accused of following allegedly Satanic rites – in this case, Santa Muerte. His denials were obviously facetious, however, because of his tattoo that plainly stated, “Satanic Member.” This is also probably the only case of a direct link between Santa Muerte practice and Satanism.
Perhaps the most infamous case involving Santa Muerte occurred on 18 August 1998. Agents of Mexico State’s Attorney General’s Office (PGJE) (Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado de México), in coordination with personnel from the Anti-Terrorism Team and Center for Political Investigations and National Security (GAT-CISEN) (Grupo Antiterrorismo y Centro de Investigaciones Políticas y Seguridad Nacional) and the Federal Attorney General’s (PGR) (Procuraduría General de la Republica) Anti-Organized Crime Unit (Unidad Contra el Crimen Organizado), conducted operations in the municipalities of Tultepec and Naucalpan in Mexico State. During the operations, the officers arrested Daniel Arizmendi López AKA El Mochaorejas as well as members of his gang, including Rafael Arturo Dicante Rosales, Juan Ramón Frutos Aguilar, Ernesto Mendoza, Miguel Armando Morgan Hernández, Rafael Noguez Yañez, Raymundo Jiménez Hernández, Dulce Paz Vanegas, and Flor Camelia Vanegas Martínez. Arizmendi was one of the most notorious and brutal kidnappers in Mexican history. He and his gang kidnapped 24 people, holding them for ransom while sending ransom notes to victims’ family members along with the victims’ severed ears, thereby receiving payments totaling over $(USD) 40 million. During the operation, the arresting officers found Arizmendi hiding in his bathroom, where they also found an altar to Santa Muerte. Arizmendi asked the arresting officers for permission to take the statue with him; they granted the request. He took the statue with him when he was remanded to the La Palma Maximum Security Prison. Officers later learned that part of the gang’s routine was to offer supplications to Santa Muerte ...
Illegal migrants have been praying to Santa Muerte, carrying images of Santa Muerte in their clothing and giving thanks to her for their crossing. It is through these illegal migrants that Santa Muerte seems to be spreading to the U.S. The spread of the cult across the border was predicted by Homero Aridjis.
In some ways, Santa Muerte is a logical choice of patron for would-be illegal migrants. Crossing the border is often dangerous, simply because of the terrain, and illegal migrants must consider the risk of death when preparing for their journeys. Furthermore, illegal migrants frequently come under the criminal influence if not guidance of human smugglers and drug traffickers. Finally, the action itself is by definition a crime, an action for which a person might not expect a traditional saint to offer protection.
Some criminals seem to treat Santa Muerte with a respect that they do not extend to other religious figures. According to the Mexican newspaper La Cronica, in the late 1990s, the family of Eugenio Hernández Vara financed the construction of a chapel to the Virgin of Guadalupe. The chapel was built eight kilometers from the town of Anáhuac, on the side of the highway leading to Nuevo Laredo. Hernández’ family had the chapel built to serve the pilgrims who frequently travel the road. The chapel was also used by local farmers, who used the chapel to pray for rain and good crops. Located nearby was an altar dedicated to Santa Muerte, who is believed to be venerated by drug traffickers that also use the road. In April 2004, unknown vandals destroyed the Chapel of the Virgin of Guadalupe. However, they left the Santa Muerte altar in pristine condition.
The motive for the shrine desecration is unknown. It may have been perpetrated by Santa Muerte devotees. It may also have been a random act of vandalism. If the latter is the case, the fact that Santa Muerte was left untouched is a telling indicator of the nature of the cult ... Santa Muerte is an entity associated with, among other things, revenge. The vandals may have feared incurring a curse or, at least, the vengeance of the drug traffickers and smugglers who adore Santa Muerte.
The location of the shrine is also telling. Anáhuac is not a major metropolitan area but it is located on one of only three major highways leading into Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas. Nuevo Laredo is one of the most notorious cities on the U.S. border. It is situated across the border from Laredo, Texas, which is the starting point of Interstate 35 – the major north-south corridor leading into the United States. This geography makes it a natural chokepoint for overland shipping between the two countries, a fact evinced by a high-volume of truck traffic through the Nuevo Laredo Ports of Entry. Consequently, it is a strategic location for smuggling, which contributes to the high-levels of crime and violence in the region. The Santa Muerte shrine is, therefore, conveniently situated to serve the needs of smugglers and other criminals about to cross the border. It is also a convenient location for smugglers to offer dedications of thanksgiving after crossing into Mexico ...
Increasingly, many of the devotees of Santa Muerte are being described as ordinary, working-class people, rather than the criminals with which the cult has traditionally been associated. Among those would be taxi driver Mario Juarez, claiming that Santa Muerte offered “a little more protection” in rough neighborhoods. Carmen González Hernández, a grandmother from Tepito, prayed to Santa Muerte for help raising her grandchildren, whose father was in prison. Hayde Solís Cárdenas, prayed to Santa Muerte for help running her business after her son left, abandoning her grandson with her. She worked with loan sharks and smugglers, selling stolen tennis shoes. Isiel Alvarado, a welder, prayed to Santa Muerte for delivering his brother from prison. Subway janitor Maria Carrillo, prayed to Santa Muerte for help raising her four grandchildren, abandoned by their mother, who ran away ...

[edit on 19-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 19 2010 @ 11:55 PM
Here is an AP video (IN ENGLISH)...It shows a room being searched by cops with all the walls covered with Santa Muerte images, then some wrecking-ball destruction of roadside Santa Muerte chapels (the same bout of such already touched on in the thread), and David Romo...

Here is the same Robert Almonte we've seen referenced before, in a trailer for his video "Patron Saints Of The Mexican Drug Underworld" English...

Here is CNN video (IN ENGLISH) showing those same American-citizen Laredo assassin teens, working for the Zetas, that we've already cited articles on, about toasting Santa Muerte in a victim's shows homewood's Santa Muerte tattoo...

...making stew out of victim's body in metal drum...hadn't heard that detail before...

Here is video on the 11 decapitated heads in Yucatan incident that we've seen previous references linking-or-attempting-to-link to Santa Muerte...(I'm passing over a bunch of other beheading Mexican videos I've found so far, unless/until I find some specific Santa Muerte citation...i.e. beheading is not enough for me to post it...many beheadings...)

And here is a Sean Hannity / Fox News "Beyond Belief" segment on Santa Muerte ...

Here is a piece (in English, mostly) with a local-San-Francisco/Mission-District focus to it, the Mission being a poorer, densely-woven Hispanic neighborhood on the south side of SF...the Rick Ross forum bit at the top of this thread page, positing an actual conspiratorial (/and-NEA) reason for the particular slant on Anglo Santa Muerte coverage - instead of just the usual political correctness - makes me listen to the narration in this one a little differently, hmmm...

Here is an interesting explicatory/devotee video (IN ENGLISH)...In particular his quick review of "myths" between like 1:00 to 2:20...(he could have skipped the ambient/wind-chimes music, but, uh, hey)...he uses a different word for "owl" than I ever heard - but he knows more than me, 1000 percent, I ain't Mexican - and more owl-symbolism talk is good, 'cause it's been omitted in my sources so far, comparatively...

[edit on 20-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 07:42 AM
Wow...(I'm going to have to claim ADD like a fool, because) the cross reference on the Santa-Muerte-costing-you-a-family-member concept, that I remembered was from the Univision forum...I already posted it in Spanish, but neglected to translate it (how mortifying), translating from the Spanish in the last post on the 3rd page of this thread, picking up where the English translation left off in the first post on the 4th, with [interjections by me looking like this]...

In order not to make the tale more lengthy, this happened more than half a year ago, today the husband is dying of a cancer in his left lung, (he's a non-smoker) and things have gone very badly for him at work...
The Most Holy Saint Death, She is a very good Saint, but very frail/delicate/particular, nobody should fail Her [let Her down/owe Her] in any way whatsoever.

In this next one, I'm adding quotation marks around the (numbered) ideas that the writer, Yocubita, is rebutting, just for clarity...

"3) - She is a jealous entity, who does not permit the worship of other Saints"
- She is an angel, and She needs/requires from you your attention and [your] care. She needs Her personal space, and you should not put Her in place on the altar of another deity. That's the source of the idea that She is very jealous.
It's logical that She would ask at least that much from you. If She is going to give you so [very] much, well then you give Her something in exchange.
She permits that you worship whoever you want, you are free. But when it is Her time [or "Her hour'], it is only [for] Her !!!
For the above reasons, you should give Her a space that is used only for Her altar, give Her hours of attention and much love and care. She will return to you ten times that which you give to Her.
"1) She will grant your prayer [but] in exchange for the life of a [friend or] family member"
- This one is the most widespread myth. We maybe begin [thinking that?] because She, by Herself, cannot make those decisions that only belong to God the Father. So thus, if somebody dies, it is not through Her decision, but rather that of the Heavenly Father.
She comes into being as a servant of the Father. So for that reason She can't make a decision that does not belong to Her, such as cutting the threads of a life. She follows orders, She doesn't give the orders.
What you should indeed be careful about, is what you may promise Her, because we are in the habit of forgetting ourselves after having received the requested favor. She will demand Her pay from you. It is like that. But so then, in order not to have an impossible difficulty, do not offer that which you cannot give. Think before you open your mouth.
"2)The worship of the Most Holy Saint Death is satanic"
- Some people have very much wanted to connect Her with this figure [i.e. the devil]. But what results from that [idea] is illogical. Because, while She stands for peace, tranquility and repose, the worship of evil is full of sex, animal energy, pleasures, money, arrogance, excessive power, and gluttony. So where then is the connection? If we begin to consider both figures, we realize that they are not related in any way whatsoever.
That [idea] is a distortion of reality.

And finally Lobo499's words, starting off that one Univision forum Santa-Muerte-rituals thread.

Let's begin [by asking] who is our Most Holy Saint Death - [is She] that former image some have, sinister, painful, cruel and cold ?
But it's not like that, the image has evolved as our own mentality has discovered that the Most Holy Saint Death has the purpose of preparing us in order that the last moment of our earthly existence arrives at a level such that our conscience, our thoughts and our forebodings may find themselves at peace, so that they can transcend the region where they hold sway and [arrive] later at another, supremely better one.
Some say that when the Most Holy Saint Death grants us a favor, it costs us one of our loved ones in exchange, this is totally false because She doesn't work in that manner, She comes in order to help us, and not to punish those who worship Her.

[edit on 20-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 20 2010 @ 04:47 PM
the Owl is associated with Lilith

more about Owls and their symbolic meaning(s):

Owl: Pagan Symbol of Wisdom

Most Pagans believed Owl imparted the ability to see through deception and bestowed psychic awareness. Others believed she was an omen of misfortune and death.


The Owl as a Christian Symbol represents symbolizes mourning and desolation because it lives for the darkness and is often found near tombs and lives in caves. In the Scriptures the owl is commonly associated with desolation; poets and story-tellers introduce it as a bird of ill omen.

This link: The Wise Old Owl is full of info, so i'm not going to pick anything out of it and ignore the rest - click on the link and see what it says!

This one is verrrrrrry interrrrrrrresting! Animal Symbolism of the Owl

It should be clear that the owl was honored as the keeper of spirits who had passed from one plane to another. Often myth indicates the owl accompanying a spirit to the underworld - winging it's newly freed soul from the physical world into the realm of spirit.

"Owl" at Crystalinks

posted on Jun, 28 2010 @ 09:54 PM
This here next article from the Forensic Theology Research Center / (and what a name to conjure with - "Forensic Theology Research Center" - dude! - I want that on my business card, hee-hee) has a couple of tidbits I haven't seen before...

Crime Scenes and Folk Saints: The Cult of Santa Muerte

Santa Muerte is part of the phenomena known as ‘Folk Catholicism’. Folk Catholicism is defined as ‘a syncretic blend of native beliefs with traditional Sixteenth century Spanish Roman Catholicism.’ (Spielberg and Zavaleta, 2004)...
Religious scholars tell us the development of folk saints comes from a need to create a spiritual entity that can explain experiences that the official teachings could not express. (Brandon, 2004) In looking at the image of Santa Muerte as a patron saint to ‘criminals’ contrasts the traditional Catholic saints that symbolize positive characteristics such as mercy and healing.
Members of the traditional Catholic Church have been vocal regarding the rejection of Santa Muerte as a ‘patron saint’. Worship of the saint is compared by some Catholics with the Anti-Christian religion of Satanism. (Hawley,2004)This rejection by the traditional Catholic Church appears to fulfill the philosophical characteristics of Muerte. Santa Muerte symbolizes those who have been rejected by the church and society. One organized Muerte following has sued the Bishop of Leon for suggestion a link between the group and what the Bishop has termed as ‘witchcraft’. (Hawley, 2004)
There are a number of theories surrounding the origins of Santa Muerte...
Another theory is that Santa Muerte is the contemporary manifestation of the Aztec deity of the dead known as ‘Mictlantecuhtli’. The physical appearance of this deity is very similar to Muerte in that he appears as a skeletal figure with his bones sticking through his flesh. (Network Santa Muerte,2004)
One theory on the origins of the saint looks at Santa Muerte as part of a ‘dualistic’ nature of the Catholic saint known as the Virgin of Guadalupe. Santa Muerte is a reflection of the ‘death’ aspect of the Virgin. The Virgin of Guadalupe is honored by many Catholics in the Hispanic community as well as by practitioners of the mystic based practice of ‘Espiritismo.’ The Virgin of Guadalupe is honored as the contemporary manifestation of an Aztec goddess known as ‘Tonantzin’ by Mexican folk healers in the practice of Hispanic witchcraft called ‘Brujeria’. (Devine,1982)
Writer Homero Aridjis speaks of followers who share a world-view that honors Santa Muerte as a manifestation of the Yoruba diety ‘Oya’. ‘Oya’ was originally recognized as the goddess of the Niger River. (Olumide,1948)However in the modern day manifestation of Yoruba religion known as ‘Santeria’, Oya is recognized as the guardian of cemeteries. This affiliation with the spirits of the dead creates an understandable link between the two personalities.(Aridjis,2004) ...Santa Muerte appears to function as two important aspects. The first being in the form of an amulet that contains magical power. The second being that of a saint that intercedes in heaven. (Cultures of Devotion website) Santa Muerte appears to be a benevolent spiritual entity that provides assistance for those that serve her. A publication called ‘Fervor a la Santa Muerte’ appeared in the Mexican paranormal magazine ‘Mundo Esoterico’. The insert shared various testimonials as to the beneficial powers of Santa Muerte. One man’s testimony shares how Santa Muerte delivered him from the perils of alcoholism.
There is an understood philosophy attached to Santa Muerte. Muerte represents the poor, the outcasts and the criminal minded. One member of the faith explained “The Virgin of Guadalupe Mexico's patron saint, would not sympathize with a life like hers, tending rather to well-off people with college degrees and nice clothes. Santa Muerte, she said, hears prayers from dark places.” She is also called the “angel of last resort for outlaws and outcasts, people who feel abandoned by their government and disparaged by the church”. (Thompson,2004)
The enigmatic saint has also become an icon with a noted spiritual importance to criminals. Writer Aridjis studied the saint and her appearance in the criminal underworld. He comments that “Today you are going to sell drugs or you are going to kidnap somebody, you ask her (Santa Muerte) for help so you can commit crimes safely”. Aridjis also speaks of ‘Narcotraficantes’ (powerful drug dealers) who worship the saint ...
A report of mass murder in the Northern State of Sinaloa revealed that over 50 victims were discovered with tattoos and jewelry depicting Santa Muerte. (Thompson,2004) ...
The image of Santa Muerte is known by a number of names including Santisima Muerte; Santa White Nina; Sacred Death; Most Holy Death; Comadre; ‘the Girl’ and the Pretty One.
...Candles, amulets and lithographs depict the image of the saint. The most popular medium is called a ‘Bulto’ or figure in the round’. (Castro,2001) This is traditionally a Mexican devotional sculpture created from plastic, ceramic or crushed bone.
The image of Santa Muerte is depicted as a human skeleton cloaked in a flowing robe...The image is holding a scythe in the right hand and a globe of the earth in her left hand. The image may also be depicted holding a set of scales. The origins of this figure as a cultural symbol of death may originate with the French figure known as the ‘Macabre’. The Macabre was a death figure that played a part in medieval mystery plays. The costumed actor was dressed as a skeleton and carried a scythe and/or an hourglass. (Walker 1988)
...The statue is believed to hold the spiritual essence of Santa Muerte. The statue becomes ‘empowered’ with a supernatural presence through ritualistic acts. This empowerment is similar to the spiritual concept of ‘Ache’ found in the religion of Santeria. Ache is spiritual energy that is given to humanity from the deities called ‘Orishas;. Ache can empower ritual artifacts. The spiritual energy makes the artifacts ‘sacred’. (Murphy 1988) Some statues contain materials to give a supernatural ‘charge’ to the image. The bottom of the statue may be discovered hollowed out. A popular form of the statue contains mustard seeds, coins, rice and red thread. One cultural informant shared the symbolism of the components. Rice is a staple food in some cultures and is presented as a sacrifice. The coins are traditionally used in religious rituals to ‘pay’ for the passage to the world of the dead. The thread is use to symbolize the thread that life hangs from. The color red is used to represent life and vitality. The statue is sealed with candle wax. (Author Interview)
...One form of the Muerte image as used to represent malevolency is found in anthropologist John Ingham’s book "Mary, Michael and Lucifer: Folk Catholicism in Central Mexico" . Ingham observes that ‘evil’ is reflected in a number of statues and symbols used in the local religious customs. One such figure is known as ‘La Muerte’ and is depicted by a ‘noisy clanking human skeleton sometimes riding in an oxcart’. Ingham’s informant equates this figure with a manifestation of ‘the Devil’.
The image of Santa Muerte may be appropriated with a number of offerings. The most popular offerings are red apples and incense. Other offerings may include cigarettes, water, white bread, sugar, honey and tequila. Cigar smoke is blown into the face of the image. This is a common practice found in many of the syncretic religions such as Santeria and Voodoo. The smoke is used ‘to wake’ the spirit.
Santa Muerte is found in some homes of practitioners of the Cuban based religion of ‘Santeria’. While the image is not traditionally included as a ‘Orisha’ (deity) in Santeria, it is offered as an additional spiritual source of power. This is not unusual as there are several ‘optional’ spiritual personalities such as El Negro Jose, the Congo woman and the San Simon that are found in the Santeria pantheon. (authors observation)
Santa Muerte is also mentioned in the writings of California based Palo Mayombe Priest Carlos Montenegro. Montenegro produces a number of books for practitioners of the Palo religious tradition. In his book "Palo Mayombe: The Darkside of Santeria" Montenegro includes Santa Muerte as being a spirit that can be invoked from a large gold, black and red ceramic pot. (Montenegro,1998) ...
Does the presence of the image of Santa Muerte indicate criminal or deviant activity? It would be inaccurate to assume that all practitioners of the Muerte movement are criminals. Religious paraphernalia can be purchased by anyone and possession of ‘malevolent’ appearing tools does not necessarily indicate a crime in itself. The saint also represents the poor and downtrodden as well as criminal elements. Muerte adherents may use the image of the saint in a private or public religious setting as a functional symbol of hope. The idea that death appears as a non-discriminatory force appears to play part of the appeal of Muerte. She is accessible to all races and all social classes. As one spiritual healer puts it “God helps the good and the devil helps the bad, but death treats everyone the same." ...

I had to edit a bunch of stuff for thing I left out was a mention of the killer Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo having a Santa Muerte statue, because from what I've read on him previously his cultish murders had a lot more to do with the regular Palo Mayombe flavor vein...was the consensus...I'm only mentioning him because if you click through and check out the entire article, the question might arise as to why I omitted him... But you should click through, if only to look at the whole list of references, such as Durkheim, et cetera...

[edit on 29-6-2010 by nine-eyed-eel]

posted on Jun, 29 2010 @ 11:33 PM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

I think that these two videos are showing the baptisms that the Los Angeles people were speaking of as being recorded for local TV channel 62 (only a speculation on my part however)...I've been putting off posting them till I could get most-or-all of the audio transcribed and translated...but I keep on not getting it I'm thinking if I post them first, now, that'll goad me into getting it done slightly faster, yep...hopefully.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:54 AM
reply to post by nine-eyed-eel

yes, i read the entire article, thank you.

it seems to me that the clergy and the law enforcement continue making the erroneous assumption that veneration of this saint by criminals automatically creates a criminal motive, or tendency, in every follower.

and it does not mean that the saint condones or approves of crime. acceptance of someone, as is, is not the same thing as approval of their every deed and thought.

when she is asked to keep those, who love her, safe, NO MATTER what their intended or actual activity might be, it seems logical that she would keep them safe.

that doesn't imply, either, that she's going to help the crime in anyway, supernaturally or not.

i'd like to think that there would be a little bit of extra providence for the victim, if there is one such as in kidnappings - which seem to be frequent.

it seems they are incapable of accepting a form of religion because of judgments upon the adherents.

maybe this is why no religion has ever really welcomed the underbelly of society into its folds!!

it is too damaging to the reputation of the religion?


[edit on 6/30/2010 by queenannie38]

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:12 AM
I would like to know how this plays into the roles of the Angels of Death?

Judeo-Christian traditions often have Michael and Satan as Angels of Death. Michael is usually seen as the good one and Satan as the bad one. In the Book of Jude, Satan and Michael struggle over the body or soul of Moses. This is a retelling of an older Jewish story that involves Michael and Samael, sometimes called Satan, fighting over the body of Moses.

In some Jewish and Muslim lore there is a third Angel of Death, Azrael, who appears to be different than Michael or Satan.

Also take note that "Death" in the Christian testament is sometimes associated with Satan. Jesus overcomes him and in Revelations, Death is annihilated in the Lake of Fire along with Satan.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 03:34 AM
reply to post by MikeboydUS

santa muerte is also an angel of death.

in Revelation it says that death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
the beast and the false prophet, also - this lake of fire 'burns like brimstone.'

Thanatos & Hades (sister and brother!)
"death" and "hell"


G3041 λίμνη limnē lim'-nay Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.

taken from G3040

G3040 λιμήν limēn lee-mane' Apparently a primary word; a harbor: - haven. Compare G2568.

a harbor
i.e. a sheltered, protected place

of fire:

G4442 πῦρ pur poor A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.


G2545 καίω kaiō kah'-yo Apparently a primary verb; to set on fire, that is, kindle or (by implication) consume: - burn, light.

with brimstone:

G2303 θεῖον theion thi'-on Probably neuter of G2304 (in its original sense of flashing); sulphur: - brimstone.

neuter of G2304:

G2304 θεῖος theios thi'-os From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.



cast, ALIVE (meaning not dead, not killed), into the SHELTER of the fire that is the LIFE of GOD (flashing like divinity)


makes much more sense.

why would GOD burn his loyal servants - his REAPERS (revelation 14:14) - alive in a tortuous and mean way, to punish them?

why punish his workers?

they stand in rank with angelic faces
fighting the battle in the darkest of places

are they not gods under the one GOD?

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:04 AM
reply to post by queenannie38

Thats a fairly twisted view of the "Lake of Fire".

Why would G-d reward the Beast, False Prophet, Satan, Death, Hades, and anyone not found in the Book of Life?

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelations 19:20

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

Don't tell me they are rewarded too.

Early church fathers such as Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus all said this meant annihiliation from existence. By being thrown into the "Lake of Fire", G-d was uncreating them, erasing them from reality.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 05:18 AM

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Thats a fairly twisted view of the "Lake of Fire".

either that
or its the correct view and the accepted one is actually the twisted one.

Why would G-d reward the Beast, False Prophet, Satan, Death, Hades, and anyone not found in the Book of Life?

and how do YOU know whose name IS IN and therefore, whose is NOT, in the Lamb's book of life?

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

burning with brimstone

did you read my previous post?

brimstone is a very slanted translation for the neuter form of "god" - it is divinity not sulphur.

already it's turning

you're reading more than is in there, too.
everyone does
i did but i'm learning to keep it simple

it never says, if you go back to the original text, the things that we are told that it says.

it never says anyone is condemned.
not even Babylon
what happens to her?
she becomes the bride of the lamb and comes down finely arrayed as "Jerusalem" = "vision of peace"

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14-15

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 21:8

but you see, the word liars, from 21:8 is

G5571 ψευδής pseudēs psyoo-dace' From G5574; untrue, that is, erroneous, deceitful, wicked: - false, liar.

which is NOT the same as the word used as deceived in the verses mentioning the false prophet:

From G4106; to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.

G4106 is just the feminine of the same word.

so, the false prophet is a traducer, seducer, tempter.
definitely haSatan!

but not a mere "liar" - those are human qualities listed in 21:8.

Don't tell me they are rewarded too.

what would be the problem with that?
if GOD chooses to reward them, then who is anyone else to say otherwise?

Early church fathers such as Ignatius, Justin Martyr and Irenaeus all said this meant annihiliation from existence. By being thrown into the "Lake of Fire", G-d was uncreating them, erasing them from reality.

well, that's all fine and good but that's not the idea that the text supports.
the bible doesn't have to agree with the church fathers.
the church fathers have to agree with the bible

properly understood, as Galileo said, there is not one cause for fear or alarm in the book of Revelation.

but you can't hold on to ideas like *GOD hates the devil* and therefore, you should, too

HOW do you know GOD hates the devil?
did GOD whisper that in your ear?
how can that be true?
Jesus said love your enemy
so even if you consider divine darkness your enemy, but you love it/he/she, soon it/he/she will no longer be your enemy.

you don't have to agree
or hang out
or even (((hug)))

but you can't judge, either
it is not up for any of us to judge matters we know nothing of.

i do not even delve in such affairs.
but i do know who's the boss and it ain't me.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 06:11 AM
reply to post by queenannie38

It doesn't matter if I don't know or do know if someone's name is in the Book of Life. The text clearly says whose name is not written in it is thrown into the Lake of Fire.

Babylon is destroyed, laid waste.

Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For G-d has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until G-d's words are fulfilled. The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
Revelations 17:15-18

The entire chapter of Revelations 18 is devoted to the destruction of Babylon.

After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our G-d, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants." And again they shouted: "Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever."

Revelations 19:1-3

Babylon is not the Heavenly Jerusalem, that is absurd.

what would be the problem with that?
if GOD chooses to reward them, then who is anyone else to say otherwise?

Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

You can try to warp and pervert the text as much as you want. Limnen Tou Pyros is Lake of Fire.

The use of the Limnen Tou Pyros, defining the fire as Theiou. Further reinforces the concept that the Pyros is annihilating. The Pyros is not simply any fire but a Theiou fire, erasing impurity.

Sulphur was burned as the divine incense(where the Greek name for it comes from), believed to erase impurity and disease. Sulphur fumigation is still done to this day. It is possibly the world's oldest pesticide and fungicide. You might want to research the use of the Greek term for sulphur and its historical uses.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 12:35 PM
reply to post by MikeboydUS the pure all things are pure.

thank you for that information. it only adds to the truth, which will be revealed in full when it's time.

and then we'll see.

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 02:45 PM
By the way queenannie38 thank you for the owl material...I have actually had occasion in my life to talk about Lilith (as if I knew anything - but I never mind talking and looking stupid, I am shameless about my stupidity - most days) but I never knew she was associated with the owl.

Owls kinda look like cats, from certain angles, know what I mean?

But anyways, the bit you and MikeboydUS were having about the angels reminded me of this quote from a really good enjoyable book by Frank Graziano called Cultures of Devotion, published 2007 by Oxford University Press...He includes San La Muerte, rather than Santa Muerte, in the selection of grassroots devotions that he examines in particular detail in this book (San La Muerte is also intensely interesting, I should have a thread on that one as well), along with Gauchito Gil, Sarita Colonia, Difunta Correa, Niño Fidencio, and Niño Compadrito...but he touches on Santísima Muerte and all kinds of other related good subjects in passing, I could spend the next two days punching out good quotes (and maybe I will start rereading the book and underlining, to benefit this thread, hmm) - but here's the quote that got me started on this, from page 104...

...Another attendant at a religious store, this one in south Texas, explained that the Mexican Santísima Muerte was an angel assigned by God to guide the dead into the next world. One image represents a pietà with the Virgin replaced by Santísima Muerte, holding a skeleton: "She is showing him to God to see what the fate of his soul will be."

posted on Jun, 30 2010 @ 04:42 PM

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
By the way queenannie38 thank you for the owl material...I have actually had occasion in my life to talk about Lilith (as if I knew anything - but I never mind talking and looking stupid, I am shameless about my stupidity - most days) but I never knew she was associated with the owl.

i never knew the Santisima was associated with owls! as many images and icons as i've seen, the owl was a new, pleasant, surprise to me!

it makes perfect sense and only solidifies my increasing understanding of la Santa Muerte...being already familiar with the iconography of the owl, through time and cultures.

Owls kinda look like cats, from certain angles, know what I mean?


especially the old-fashioned halloween decorations we had in grade school, and at home, too, from around the 1950's!

same ears, all-knowing eyes.

autonomous enigmas
both are favorite "familiars" of those who know "the hidden treasures of darkness."

He includes San La Muerte,

very interesting fellow
surely he's the Santa's viejo?
they get together on their favorite days of the year.

i haven't heard any devotees say this, but many *experts* have - that these don't have anything to do with los Muertos on dia de los Muertos!
how can they think that's true?
it's obvious that's exactly who they are!
and really, how many skeleton's with the last name of "Muertos" are wandering the Mexican countryside?

...Another attendant at a religious store, this one in south Texas, explained that the Mexican Santísima Muerte was an angel assigned by God to guide the dead into the next world.

that's what i've always understood her to be
among others, as i said
although excluding "satan" - which isn't a name, anyway, but a title, like Barrister or Lieutenant or Reverend.

or maybe it's just those two, in various guises under various names, worldwide.

in judeo-christianity, their names ARE Michael and Lilith!
in Islam only the male is named: Azrael but the female is Azazel

i've heard it revealed through many different-minded folks that NO ONE is alone, the moment they die. everyone gets their hand held, with love, for their crossing over.

indeed, many NDE accounts support this!

One image represents a pietà with the Virgin replaced by Santísima Muerte, holding a skeleton: "She is showing him to God to see what the fate of his soul will be."

kind of like Ma'at at the sun-scales, in the underworld of Egypt known as Duat!

in that philosophy, it is Anubis and Ma'at!

many cultures only mention one - no doubt a reflection of social structure - patriarchal societies do not acknowledge the female role.

posted on Sep, 1 2010 @ 01:44 AM
This one is interesting...I can't help but feel that they are conflating the female-Mexican Santa Muerte with the male-Argentinean San La Muerte, maybe...I will (lazy and desultory as ever) try to find the article in El Clarin that they mention, and translate...

The link is to, dated August 31, 2010, no author listed for me to credit...

Man arrested in Argentina after killing 6 people to fulfill a promise made to the Santa Muerte

BUENOS AIRES, ARGENTINA (BNO NEWS) – A young man was arrested on Tuesday in a Buenos Aires neighborhood for allegedly killing six individuals to fulfill a promise made to the Santa Muerte or Saint of Death.
Marcelo Antelo, 22, aka "Marcelito," was detained after a shooting with police officers in the Bajo Flores neighborhood. He promised the Santa Muerte, a sacred figure venerated in Latin America, that he will kill one person per week in exchange of protection and prosperity, the El Clarin newspaper reported.
On April 11, the body of Rodrigo Ezcurra, 27, was found shot dead in a local street. He was a philosophy student. Marcelito has been charged for the murder of Ezcurra but police investigators are trying to link the alleged serial killer with six more killings...

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

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