Why I'm Tired of People Opposed to Health Care Reform

Originally posted by Demetre
I'm thinkin some of us are gonna fall awful short, cuz Kharma, She's a bitch.

Absolutely. Karma won't be too kind to those who scream moral superiority while supporting the opposite.

You support the administration that has given hundreds of billions to banks that have stolen the wealth of a nation so that they can stay solvent to do it again but somehow you expect those that are being responsible for themselves to take care of you too.

If your precious administration actually cared about the poor and downtrodden who can't provide for themselves, then they would be taking care of them instead of throwing what will eventually be trillions in taxes to criminals masquerading as bankers. Meanwhile they want to tax the very dollars that responsible people pay for their own healthcare.

Giant steaming piles of sheer hypocricy.

I hope Karma brought a lunch because she's got a lot of work to do.



[edit on 8-8-2009 by badgerprints]

reply to post by Demetre


What guarantee do you have if this healthcare bill goes through that she'd even be approved by Obama's board to receive treatment in a timely manner? Would they see saving her life be an asset to Obama's plans? These are the questions you have to ask yourself concerning this.

No, unversal health care will never be "universal."

It's all very misleading, because government health care = lower quality.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 8/8/2009 by die_another_day]

u mean as opposed to the health care shes getting now?? U have no idea if there's going to be a wait or gap in any care she gets if this goes thru. U have no evidence to substantiate that statement what so ever. I dont have to question anything to know my sister deserves to live, to know others deserve to live. If u have to question whether a human being deserves basic medical treatment, much less life saving treatment' then that is ur shortcoming, not mine.

Health care should be a basic right. No one should be hungry, or turned away from medical care. I'm not saying give them a mansion, new car and a trip to Tahiti. Just the bare necessities to sustain life.

Uh...it already IS. Ever seen an illegal alien in the emergency room? Anyone can get treated in this country. Anyone. Yeah, sometimes people die WAITING for it in the ER, but that's crappy hospitals and nurses, not the lack of access to healthcare. Different thing. Everyone IN this country can already have access to healthcare, and access to foodstamps and welfare.

An addition 1.3 TRILLION dollars in taxes is not the answer.

It's really easy to post a 'note' that 'your friend' wrote to you and call other people idiots and push the rest of the same crap Obama and his goons are trying to so that you label anyone who doesn't agree an idiot, or a tinfoil hat freak or anything else.

get some nuts and tell us what YOU think about it. I don't give a rat's BUTT what 'your friend' thinks. That's a cop out. If he, she, or it has such a strong opinion, tell THEM to grab some nuts, get on here, make an account and let us know how they are going to change the freakin' world by sucking up everything the 'administration' wants to cram down our throats and take out of our wallets.

What's another trillion, huh? When you look at Tarp and the Bailouts for the banks and investors, ask yourself ONE QUESTION. 'Hey Self, WHO BENEFITED FROM THAT? WAS IT ME? MY MOM? ANYONE I KNOW?' When you realize that it was people and 'institutions' that already HAVE billions of dollars anyway, put two and two together. Do you think this 'NEW' plan is going to benefit 'regular' people any more? That's pretty trusting of you.

it won't do a thing for 99.9% of Americans. It will benefit fat, rich, elitist scum that need to be strung up for the theft they've perpetrated ALREADY. But instead, maybe we should just give them some more.

The bailouts are NOT for us. The reform is NOT for us. The Adminsitration is NOT for us. It's for the other .01 percent.

reply to post by js331975


I have a friend who is opposed to health care reform. I'm all for a national care, especially since I've been with without healthcare for nearly 3 years and have been turned away from the emergency room once.
He says the reason he works is so that he has health care and shouldn't have to pay for others without jobs to have healthcare. I said no, the reason you work is to have food on the table and nicer things. Hopefully you work because you enjoy your job.
What kind of people think they are entitled to better health?
Should we not want our fellow humans to live?

I agree completely with your posting! Ty for offering the only real sense I've seen.

E

Originally posted by eightonefive
Healthcare wouldn't cost as much if you removed most of the litigation aspect from it. Currently Doctors in this country are so scared of malpractice that they prescribe every test imaginable just to protect their collective asses, and their malpractice insurance is EXPENSIVE. take out the greedy lawyers and you will find medical care rates will drop. Manage the costs of drugs set by th big pharm comanies, and you've hlped a little bit more, but taking insurance away from those that have it already, collecting cerain insurance groups in a circle and giving them all the business of the american taxpayer is the same as the bailouts, it's politicians, helping out lobbyists, who scratched their backs during the elections. gvernment needs to regulate medical prices, and improve upon the medical assistance to the poor and uninsured. Not take away insurance from those that already have it, and raise taxes. How about this, make sure everyone in the country that is receiving medical care be a confirmed taxpaying citizen? hmmm? Obama's plan sucks, and you arent convincing me of anything. go back to the drawing board before you make a presentation like this if you expect to gain followers.

How about cash for clunkers? which was originially drafted to help the american auto worker? The original draft of that bill stated that it only apllied to american autos. Well that got scrapped, and now 90% of the autos being purchased are japanese. Don't even say that the japs have facories over here, of course they do, but they are all in the south, and non union factories which are paying poor bubba 13 bucks an hour after 15 years of service. compare that wage to what the unionized auto workers in detroit make and it seems hardly fair.

The stimulus package? I haven't seen ANY change in unemployment in my area, and in fact, the numbers have only gone up less than 1% since it was implemented.

Obama and his czars should take paycuts, give all the americans the same insurance that they are offered, otherwise leave well enough alone. he's already managed to screw up the country worse than any president since Kennedy.

Originally posted by Demetre
u mean as opposed to the health care shes getting now?? U have no idea if there's going to be a wait or gap in any care she gets if this goes thru. U have no evidence to substantiate that statement what so ever. I dont have to question anything to know my sister deserves to live, to know others deserve to live. If u have to question whether a human being deserves basic medical treatment, much less life saving treatment' then that is ur shortcoming, not mine.

And if you read the proposal, you could argue that she might not get the care she needs anyway--THAT is determined by 3rd parties, or might have to wait so long for treatment that it wouldn't matter anyway, as only emergencies are treated immediately, all others require review and approval.
And the treatment is mandated, no options except to appeal and wait some more.
And if she waited too long in the process, there IS a cost vs benefit mandate and she just might be put on the "end of life planning" (yes, it's in the bill) phase of "death care".

this is all I have to say about your statements and just how well your precious MassHealth program works.

A state commission recommended yesterday that Massachusetts dramatically change how doctors and hospitals are paid, essentially putting providers on a budget as a way to control exploding healthcare costs and improve the quality of care.

Commission members stressed that failing to control medical spending - which is growing by more than 8 percent annually in Massachusetts, driven largely by the high price and heavy use of hospitals - could threaten the state’s model health insurance law and bankrupt employers and patients.

Patients could find it harder to get procedures they want but are of questionable benefit if doctors are operating within a budget. And they might find it more difficult to get care wherever they want, if primary doctors push to keep patients within their accountable care organization

All from this article in the Boston Globe

www.boston.com...

from just a few weeks ago.

apparently, you aren't even aware of just what kind of trouble that wonderful program is in.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by Xtinguish

 

Not Obama...that is congress. Congress makes the laws not the President.

Oh! Is that why the executive branch bullies Congress into certain decisions?

If all Doctors that treat Congress Officals would go on strike, that would stop this health care plan.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Anyone who supports profitting from health-care IS an idiot.

I forgot to mention -- immoral too.

Originally posted by km1550
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Anyone who supports profitting from health-care IS an idiot.

I forgot to mention -- immoral too.

How intelligent!

Why don't you enlighten us idiot's and explain why? Please keep it simple though as my capitalist mind can only take so much thought in one sitting.

reply to post by Demetre


I can guarantee that your views will not be theirs. Their main determining factor is going to be "What will this person be able to contribute to our plans if we do provide medical treatment." Nothing else. The state comes first, the individual last.

[edit on 8/8/09 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

Originally posted by Xtinguish

Originally posted by km1550
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Anyone who supports profitting from health-care IS an idiot.

I forgot to mention -- immoral too.

How intelligent!

Why don't you enlighten us idiot's and explain why? Please keep it simple though as my capitalist mind can only take so much thought in one sitting.

+2

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by ExPostFacto

 

My healthcare insurance costs me $19.17 / month. I'm retired US military, and have my healthcare insurance through TriWest Healthcare. This is a privilege I earned by serving 20 years in the US military. Through your own decisions and actions you can earn privileges others do not have a right to. This is supposed to give people incentives to perform certain actions in their life to gain privileges. If full healthcare for life is deemed a right, then what's next? Should a fully funded 401k also be declared a right? Should fully funded vacations be a right? Or are those things you should have to earn, like good affordable healthcare insurance?

I agree that your healthcare should be cheap for life. You earned it. To be fair though, you recieved this benefit from day one of your service. In that aspect you hadn't really earned that privilege yet. The fact that you do get it for life reflects your service. You deserve that to a degree.

The problem remains that your healthcare setup is basically only available to goverment employees. Some large corporations as well, but even most now require payments higher than medicaire to stay enrolled, as well as longer terms of service than 20 years of service. Should we just let the goverment employ everyone? Is that your solution to universal healthcare?

I value your service but I think that all Americans should be entitled to the same rewards no matter who their employer is or whatever may be their occupation. Why should you get $19 per month healthcare when Joe the plumber gets $300 per month healthcare if he's lucky after 40 years? Im not saying you shouldn't, but if you do, Joe the Plumber who work just as hard, should get it as well.

Your stance is very hypocritical. You don't want for other Americans what you get for yourself. You can argue against indigent care, but you can't argue aganst the fact that most Americans spend 40 plus years working without anywhere near the benfits that you recieve. If everyone was treated as you are, there would be no healthcare debate.

There is nothing more idiotic than arguing against something which you are already taking advantage of. Your healthcare is no more socialist than what Obama is proposing. The taxpayers already pay for it. Obama just wants what you have for everyone, although everyone else is still going to have to pay much more than what you pay, even after much longer working service. We are the ones that are subsidizing the goverment healthcare that you already recieve. Open your eyes.

The OP is obviously a shill - Go back to the HuffonThis Post, you're speaking to intelligent people here.

Call me an idiot if you want. Why not open your mind to the thoughts of a surgeon whose is a noted health care reform advocate?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by js331975


Most are not opposed to reform. In fact I've heard many give their own examples.

Most are opposed to bureaucracy which is what the bill is. And a single payer system is not right unless it is based off of having a selective amount of money for the whole country and doctors can take whatever they need for their mission to save people. This eliminates the threat to initiative, it makes it so that only doctors interested in saving lives want to work, and with some checks and balance from a very small position in congress, it can remove any dangers of corruption.

Does Healthcare need fixing? YES. Do you tear down your entire house to remodel your bathroon? NO.

Bottom line. Medicare is bankrupt, Medicaid is bankrupt, Social Security is bankrupt. What makes you think the Government can do Healthcare better than it is being done now?

I dont think so.