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Jury Weighs Faith-Healing Death Case Against Girl's Dad

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posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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Jury Weighs Faith-Healing Death Case Against Girl's Dad


www.foxnews.com

A jury in central Wisconsin was deliberating Friday in the case of a father charged with homicide for allegedly praying instead of taking his dying daughter to a doctor.

A prosecutor told jurors in closing arguments that Dale Neumann acted selfishly and killed his daughter in a test of his extreme religious beliefs.

The prosecutor argued that Neumann failed to meet his legal obligations as a parent and should be found guilty of homicide.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.ajc.com
wcco.com




posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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This girl was only 11. She had undiagnosed diabetes and died because her father was convinced if he prayed enough God would heal her. One would think that in this day and age people would be smart enough to understand that medical attention is required when someone is deathly ill.

There's nothing wrong with having faith, but to refuse to take your child to the hospital because it would be "disobeying God" is just ridiculous. I just don't understand how any parent could watch their child die and not even try to get them to the hospital. Whoever it was that convinced this guy that faith-healing works needs to be up on charges too.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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I am a born again Christian and I say this man is deserving the charges against him. God does give divine healing but He also uses doctors and medicine as an avenue to healing. He was correct to pray for his daughter but doing what he did was just plain dumb. If he was in tune to God's voice at all he should have heard the Lord telling him to take his child to the doctor!

God Bless



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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Hmmm, but the constitution says there shall be no law against the free exercise of religion.

Yes, it is stupid. However, it is his daughter and he was doing what he thought was right.

It was not your daughter, so you may have your opinion, but you have no right to tell him what he should do, nor does anyone else and the government should butt out.
Government has no right to charge this man with anything.
It is bad enough that he is greiving over the loss of his child, and now the government comes along to harrass him.
They should leave him alone.
It is his loss, not theirs.
These vultures have no compassion.
They are a vengfull hord of miscreants.

If it continues to interfere in cases like this, then it should pass laws that make religion illegal. Which they cannot do under the present constituion.

Oh, but then they do pass unconstitutional laws don't they?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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The Constitution does not guarantee freedom to practice your religion, if it violates American laws. For instance, human sacrifice would not be allowed. Polygamy isn't allowed. The use of drugs, except for a single Native American tribe, is not allowed. I mean, you can't even have a decent public stoning these days without some meddlesome cop trying to stop you.

I feel if this man's faith is so strong that he is willing to let his daughter die rather than seek medical care, then it should be strong enough for him to accept that doing this will cost him his freedom. Otherwise, among many other questions, how do you distinguish religious faith from neglect or even active abuse? Don't like your kid? Pretend you're religious and let her die of some preventable disease.

He willingly let his daughter suffer the consequences of his faith. It is fitting that he also do the same - that he also face the consequences of his faith. If parents know that, by letting their kids die, the parents themselves will face possible imprisonment, maybe they won't be so brave about their childrens' suffering.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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I guess the thread wouldn't be complete without:

www.ahajokes.com...

God granting miracles


A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by EnlightenUp
 


I have read that before. I always laugh when I read it because it is so true.

Personally I feel this father should be charged. The fact that he was praying that the child would be cured of whatever illness she had is silly. While I understand his faith, God has also made doctors for a reason. A child's health isn't something to fool around with, if you want to fool around with praying for your own health by all means do it. But not for a child. He should be charged and have to deal with what he has done.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


Actually the Constitution says Congress shall make no law establishing a religion. Nowhere does it say that a man can let his daughter die while he prays over her and be protected from being charged with manslaughter or murder because of his religious beliefs. And you're right, she wasn't my daughter. If she were she'd be alive right now and wouldn't have gotten to the point where she couldn't walk, talk or eat because I was too stubborn to take her to a doctor and thought a little prayer was all that was needed. If she were my daughter, this news article wouldn't exist.

There's also the matter of all those pesky laws we have about not killing anyone. This mans actions, lack of actions technically, caused his daughter's death, there's no getting around it. Religion is not an excuse for allowing someone to die instead of taking them to the doctor. He can believe whatever he likes as far as religion is concerned, but by not seeking medical attention for his daughter he infringed upon her right to be alive.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by JesusSaves2008
 





I am a born again Christian and I say this man is deserving the charges against him. God does give divine healing but He also uses doctors and medicine as an avenue to healing.

That's a typical ridiculous xtian excuse for that fact that praying to god doesn't do anything.

If you have a magic wand you eradicate illness, not magically influence (against his will ?) another person to attempt to help the ill.

The charges against this man should be dropped on mental health grounds, as he's clearly suffering xtian delusion.

The opportunity should now be taken to put "Jesus" on trial for breaking his promise to the accused man and allowing the child to die.

Send Jesus to the chair once and for all, let's get this world back on its' reasoning feet again. halleluja



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by moocowman
 


While i think this man should be charged and mentally evaluated.I think its petty and low for you to use this childs death for your anti-xtian crusade.Thats what your post sounded like to me anyway...



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


Well, my religion says that I should get a revolver and play russian roulette with my son.

It's the right thing to do, and it pust your faith in god to stop the bullet, to the test.

But you don't have the right to tell me Im wrong, because it's my son. Right?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by moocowman
 


While i think this man should be charged and mentally evaluated.I think its petty and low for you to use this childs death for your anti-xtian crusade.Thats what your post sounded like to me anyway...


Yup you guessed correctly my friend, but if it were not for the delusion of xtianity the child may be alive, hardly petty my friend.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 





But you don't have the right to tell me Im wrong, because it's my son. Right?


I suppose it's all about how you measure "wrong" or "harm", if the child had the right to be protected from harm by wjat the secular world sees as neglect. Then surely when her father had the same right when he was a child himself to be protected from this way of thinking.

Is not the father as much a victim of this evil cult called christianity, as the child ?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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ok... I’m a Christian and, despite what moocowman and his/her evil cult of nihilists think, I’m proud to be a Christian. However, this man who allowed his daughter to die, is guilty of stupidity, neglect or has a mental illness.

As a good friend of mine (who is also a Christian) once said "Christians who pray for everything but take no action are just stupid and lazy" If you see a starving man and you have a bag of potatoes do you pray for him or give him a potato??? Doesn’t take too much intellect to work that one out.

As for declaring Christianity an "evil cult" because of this... Well... apart from the fact that it is EXTREMELY offensive it’s also stupid. How many Children are abused, neglected, murdered every day by people who don’t believe in God??? Should we start a campaign against the Godless breeder’s moocowman??? Ridiculous and offensive!

OhZone...



Hmmm, but the constitution says there shall be no law against the free exercise of religion.

Yes, it is stupid. However, it is his daughter and he was doing what he thought was right.

It was not your daughter, so you may have your opinion, but you have no right to tell him what he should do, nor does anyone else and the government should butt out.
Government has no right to charge this man with anything.




Well I don’t know much about American law or the Constitution. But I do know the difference between right and wrong. There was a case here in Britain a few years ago where a young girl was tortured over a period of months. When the girls guardians where brought to justice they tried to claim that the girl was Possessed and they were trying to rid her of the demons. The girl had suffered regular beatings and even had chilli rubbed in her eyes. The judge see through their excuses and the jury found them guilty of child abuse.

news.bbc.co.uk...

You cannot use religion as an excuse for abuse/neglect/murder. Simple.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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I do not care what people call Modern Medicine and Doctors. Call them
"God's Will" or "Allah working in mysterious ways" call Doctors "Jesus Emulators" just as long as the little boys and little girls do not die from such an easily prevented illness. It is pure ignorance.

How do we even begin to address this news story without DIRECTLY addressing the capabilities of Prayer?

We do not because religion is the freaking Highlander, it is holy ground and it get's special treatment. Kid gloves are put on any time the subject of religion comes up.

That is what needs to change.

What if the Father said that he did not want to take the child to the Doctor because he was an Atheist and thought that doctors were co-conspirators with Religion?

Answer Honestly.

What if the father did not take the child to the doctor because Obama was trying to push for Government supplied health care and he thinks of all medicine and doctors to be communist?

Do we interpret that as his political freedom?



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Jenna
 


Why not pray to God that he give the doctors the knowledge and skill to heal and help his daughter, pray that they can save her, if you beleive that only God can do so, then only God could give the doctors the capacity to gain the knowledge and skill.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:18 PM
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It's like the saying "God helps those that help themselves." This father should have helped his child by getting her to a doctor. Don't blame the religion for the fact this father was truly blinded and neglectful.

I was brought up Catholic and not once was my family told to pray instead of seeking medical advice or help. We were always taught that prayer and medical help work hand in hand. Usually I pray that someone gets through a surgery or that the outcome of a test is good. But I have never heard a priest tell me to just pray for a miracle and you will get better. So don't blame the religion as a whole for this man's mistake.



posted on Jul, 31 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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For all who say this man should be charged. I hope that you are also in support of mandatory vaccinations. Cases such as these are being used to set a precedent....




posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by Jenna
 


Why not pray to God that he give the doctors the knowledge and skill to heal and help his daughter, pray that they can save her, if you beleive that only God can do so, then only God could give the doctors the capacity to gain the knowledge and skill.


That's what I'd like to know. He's entitled to believe whatever he likes as far as religion goes. I just don't understand why he would risk his daughters life and use prayer alone to save her when she very clearly was in need of medical attention. At the very least he is guilty of neglect.

____________


Originally posted by harvib
For all who say this man should be charged. I hope that you are also in support of mandatory vaccinations. Cases such as these are being used to set a precedent....


I'm afraid you're going to have to explain how thinking that a man who caused his daughters death by not taking her to the doctor deserves being charged translates into supporting mandatory vaccines.



posted on Aug, 1 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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I feel this guy should be charged because even devoted Christians deep down love their family more than their faith (imo).

which shows to me he is just selfish. poor girl, she was so beautiful too (not that that makes it any more tragic of course).

he should get a second or third degree murder charge and 10-20 years in prison. shame on him.



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