You're Going To Die. Beg to Differ?

Originally posted by Zenagain
reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

 

I said quite literally why I grieve for them. In reality, I'm grieving for MYSELF, as most do. I am neither God, nor Angel nor anything other than Human, so whilst I am here, I can only approach events as who I AM. And I grieve. NOT for them, but for myself extent in the LACK of their company. Infinity is exactly that, infinite, but my corporeal persona here on good old Earth is NOT. You either get it or you don't, and my pity is with you since you don't.

Wow, very good. Most people are unable to admit that they are grieving only for themselves and their loss.

I personally do not go to funerals and such.

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by paranoiaFTW

 

I'd actually prefer to not exist.

Burn in eternity, or not exist, i'd go for not exist.

God is a bipolar and self objective almost person.

He is in no way just, or in no way godly.

Correction, what people say about him is in no way godly. Which should be what clues you into the fact that what they say is not true. However, I suspect you know that and purposely ignore it, as you seem to care more about "looking right", than "being right".

There is the death of the flesh, and there is the death of the soul/consciousness. Some people such as yourself just happen to believe they happen at the same time. And that is possible and an option.

But the death of the soul is different than the death of the flesh. When people talk about being conscious after death - in anyway, then they are saying the soul is still alive.

When someone says - we will know when we die what happens - That is only true if the soul lives beyond death of the flesh. If the soul dies when the flesh dies, then you will not know what happens after death at all. Because you will not be there to know. That is what death of the soul means, you no longer exist.

So by someone saying they will find out after death, they are in fact saying there is an afterlife.

The death of the soul is about the worse that will happen to you, and thats not really a bad thing. It will happen to all eventually, it simply means you will be absorbed back into the consciousness(void) of the father, and you as an individual cease to exist. Not a big deal at all, nothing to really be "afraid" of, unless you just really want to exist as an individual and experience more things(I do).

Seriously, you have got to start realizing that Christians do not equal Christ, they do not equal god. If the understanding is false, then they are wrong. But you are only debunking the claims of Christians. Which hey, in itself is fine and dandy with me, but then you go putting those characteristics as if they really are of god, and then you go to far.

You cross the boundary of being smart enough to realize what they say and how they present is ridiculous, and then enter into the ridiculous yourself with your own claims. Stop it, you are surely smarter than that if you are able to understand the false claims.

Knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Proverbs 9

4Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

5Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled.

6Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

7He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame: and he that rebuketh a wicked man getteth himself a blot.

8Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.

10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

You are able to see the foolish, so why do you follow them in their claims? Why do you continue to spread their foolishness yourself by holding them up as that which is of god? They are NOT. And you know they are NOT. So you also know their claims are NOT about god. But then you turn around and use those same claims as to be why god does not exist. And in doing so, you are perpetrating the same lie they do.

You already know, and you deny it. Why? It is disappointing.



[edit on 7/31/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Badmedia you are a CHERRY PICKER! I would never have thought that you would be one, but you certainly are.

I am not saying that it is BAD just that I did not realize it until now.

Thomas Jefferson was a Cherry Picker and a darn good one at that!

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Nah, understanding is king. I don't accept the bible as the word of god, and I don't think just because people put books in the bible it means they are automatically true. Furthermore, I don't think the bible is something you gotta take all of, or nothing of just because some crazy fanatic says it so.

You might liken that to Cherry Picking, however that term itself would mean that I only accepted what I liked. And that isn't exactly true. What I "pick" is based only on understanding.

Lets say there was a book that contained a bunch of "true" math equations.

Book says:

1+1=2
4-0=4
90+1=33
3+9=39
8+2=10

Now, how would you know which of those were true or false? Only by your understanding. Would you be cherry picking by pointing out the ones that are true and the ones that are false?

So that is how I "Cherry Pick" the bible.

One of the things that drives me crazy about Christians is they believe it's the word of god. But then if it is written by men, then what word did they hear? And if those men could have heard that word, doesn't it mean he could also speak to them personally? And so they go on about a personal relationship with the father, but then when I ask questions and such, they show me no understanding, and their so called personal relationship with god is apparently someone repeating the bible, or even just John3:16 to them over and over.

Those who truly find the father will be given wisdom and understanding. And I can show you were the bible says it, but I don't say it is true because the bible says it. I say it is true because I did it myself.

5O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

So, if they believe the bible is the word of god, then why doesn't this happen to them? Jesus also talks about it in John 14.

If they don't understand, and they don't have understanding, then they don't know the father. And it's just the blind leading the blind.

It's not a big deal to not know the father, but when they fake it, then they only deny it of themselves because they no longer seek.

The problem is that the average human fears death. What better way to conquer the fear of death then to give it a nice story and some roses to make it pretty?

Originally posted by TheAntiHero420
The problem is that the average human fears death. What better way to conquer the fear of death then to give it a nice story and some roses to make it pretty?

I don't fear death, I'm in agreement with Mark Twain - I just don't want to be there when it happens. And sadly, what happens after death doesn't really affect the part I'm worried about.

Even if I died and that was it, it wouldn't have any real effect on what I understand, or what is right/wrong.

Generally, the fear of death is used and pushed as a means of control. Make someone fear for their life, and that it is the end, and they will go to much greater lengths to save themselves. Including, becoming just as evil as that they fear.

Was it not the fear of their lives that got people to support what they did after 9/11? Yep, and that had nothing at all to do with religion.



[edit on 7/31/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


BadMedia I am a cherry picker to man! There are some great things said in the Bible that I take to heart. I am not willing to throw away the bible just because the majority of it sounds like it is a horror novel. There are some very good lessons about life in there. It is just SO UTTERLY difficult to sift through hundreds of pages of horror to get to the good stuff.

I do not use it as a means to base an argument about a belief in a afterlife or a god or a soul though.

I just think of it as a book. No hidden information secretly given to man by a God. No hidden message about an afterlife. Just a few good messages buried among thousands of terrible ones.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


It is human nature to deny in others what we ourselves lack.

As you lack a personal relationship with the father, you deny it of others as well. Just the way it is. And it's not in itself bad or unhealthy exactly, as you should not settle for anything less than knowing for yourself.

I understand and don't really blame you. Only because of my own experience do I know it's true. I denied it in others as well before that point. But at the end of the day, I know better is all.

[edit on 7/31/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


I sure hope that I can find The Father without using the Bible.

If I am supposed to find the Father in the Bible it is gonna be a long haul before I do that. I found the master, the destroyer, the torturer, the sadist, the tester and the punisher. I have not yet found The Father. No Father that I would recognize would be written about like The God of the Bible is written about.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


Church, the bible and such things were far from my mind when I found the father. The bible isn't going to reveal the father to you at all. If it did, you'd have 2 billion Christians with understanding rather than dogma.

People will tell you "Jesus" is the only way. What they don't mention is what he is symbolism when he says that.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

It is by seeking those things that you can find the father. I was looking for those things when I found him, not for "Jesus" or any church and so forth. i wanted to know the truth, I looked to see how men could get along peacefully without wars and infringing on other people etc. That is what I was looking for.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

See, so much for "Jesus" being the only way. And on the day it happens, you will know the father is within and much more(John 14:20), and that is followed by a period where understanding is gained(John 14:26).

But when you gain that understanding, then your perspective of the world and what things mean will change. What you see with your 2 eyes remains the same, but you see things in a different way. I found the bible like 3 months later and I couldn't believe what I was reading. But I had read those same pages before when I was younger and such, and they didn't really make sense to me. Seemed like a bunch of control stuff.

I have never meet Jesus or anyone claiming to be Jesus or any of his names. But I know when I read his words that the father is inside him, because I know where his understanding comes from. But Christians throw all that away into a "he did it, so I don't have too" false religion of dogma rather than understanding etc.

And that is not to say no Christians have understanding. But the ones that do have it in spite of, not because of the religion.



[edit on 7/31/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers
Elvis is part of a vampire community living in Louisana, according to Charlotte Harris, author of the Sookie Stackhouse novels. Only don't call him Elvis. It upsets him. He goes by "Bubba." Hell, it makes as much sense as anything else I've heard about Elvis sitings. How long before we start having MJ sitings. Hell's bells, he looked like a vampire before he died.

reply to post by kettlebellysmith


Elvis was too fat to look like a vampire.

Michael Jackson looked like a vampire before he died.

It is best to understand that death has no meaning in the context of what is. All is one, and it just is. Nothing is missing, nothing can be added or taken away. It would be nice to maintain awareness in one form or another however, and I think that option is available.

But if you could enter the Akashic Field of all knowledge and all information, an eternal realm - would you want to remain there, or take another dive to a lower order in order to experience and learn and maybe add some new info to the collective?

I'd want to take another dive after an eternity in eternity, and that's why we and everything is here I think, so that God can have fun pretending he doesn't know himself, and rediscover all the different facets from various points of view.

Death ought to be fun actually because it will mean entering into something totally novel, and that's exciting.

It's all for fun, all for love.

I think that when we die then thats the end. And I suppose its slightly depressing.. but hey, I wont be there to feel crap about it once Im dead, and if there is an afterlife then it'll be a nice little suprise! Even if I go to hell I'll just whack out my free reincarnation card so I can go back to earth and 'learn from my mistakes'. Or maybe become a ghost and spend my days knocking books off shelves and tapping people on the shoulder.
There's one thing thats always got me about the whole having a soul thing though - where the hell did they all come from? It started out as 2 souls, and now there's a few billion. Does God have some sort of soul producing factory? And what the hell are we supposed to do once we've learnt everything.. spend our days laying on clouds talking about how wise and fabulous we all are, and then go off to play a game of tennis with God?

I think that the idea of creation is it's always creating something new, which never existed before, some new configuration. I suspect that some of us may even become Gods of newly created universes, and our own consciousness will form it's singularity, unwilling or unable to remain in a state of eternal bliss and oneness - we'll divide, to rediscover our identity through another manifestation, of something else something new.

"Well done my good and faitful servant. I see that you can be trusted in little things. Therefore now, I will give you even greater things to do."

Well first I thought I'd just say, Im going to live forever, so far so good
aand second, how are you so sure that there is no afterlife? You seem just as certain in your assumption as are deeply religious people. But the truth is you dont know, and I think that is what scares you.

There is no religion that makes believing every aspect of it a requirement. That is why there are different sects of every faith. The Protestant movement, Eastern tradition, shiite vs Sunni islam, Jews against zionism, zen buddhists, nasala(?) Hindus...


reply to post by Bluebelle

And what the hell are we supposed to do once we've learnt everything.. spend our days laying on clouds talking about how wise and fabulous we all are, and then go off to play a game of tennis with God?

Maybe everyones heaven is unique and you get to do what you want? Or maybe you can play tennis versus Anna Kornikova. Then Im in!

1: Our Body forms an electrical matrix.

2: all energy that exists in Third dimensional space is a wave form within 4th dimensional space

3: The energy of what we are Has to have a higher dimensional form it would be impossible for it not to.

4: The rest we leave to our imaginations and intellect to speculate, but that we are greater than the 3rd dimension placenta our senses tell us is life is a fact.

Though I will take atheism over organized religion any day, the OP demonstrates what has been pointed out time and again - atheism is too sure of itself, just like adhering to a specific religion. For all its claims of rationality and invocation of scientific principles, atheism cannot account for all of experience, human or otherwise. Yes, physical matter breaks down over time, and when you die, your body decomposes. But unless you are conscious of that process and have experienced it, it is impossible for you to know what happens to a lifeform after it dies a physical death. You cannot prove or disprove the existence of a soul.

I am not a member of any religion, and am in fact very critical of religion in general, but no matter what you do, you cannot escape from a belief system of some sort. You need one in order to operate. Whether it is an organized religion, or atheism, or some conglomeration of disparate beliefs acquired here and there, you believe in something, but you cannot prove or disprove your own beliefs. It is impossible, insofar as humans are able to conceive. Reality is subjective, and you can only ultimately go by your own experience. If you experience nonexistence after you die, then so be it. But if you do not, then you will see that your previous convictions are due for revision. That is being rational.

For most of my life, I did not believe or disbelieve in the soul, for example. As an agnostic, I needed more evidence. My evidence (which confirmed my belief in what can be termed a soul) came through my own subjective experience. It is only intellectually communicable to others. If you haven't had a comparable experience, I would not expect you to believe. I do not think it is fair to pass judgment on another person's experience. That doesn't mean you have to agree with that person, their beliefs, or their actions, but you should understand that their reality is just as real and relevant to them as yours is to you. It is a waste of time to try to convince others of your beliefs. If you believe you have just a limited time in which to exist, I wonder why you would choose to spend some of it on a message board postulating that death is the end of an individual's existence.

But then, far be it for me to judge what you choose to spend your life doing. Case in point.

reply to post by spellbound

Vampires look like they looked when they were brought over. Besides, Bubba likes cats, and they seem to keep him quite plump!

Originally posted by Republican08


Or they believe here on ATS, that the soul is one with the universe, and that "well i've had an OBE, explain that to me, haha you can't! Ergo there is a divine connection between myself and the universe itself or god himself!"

That's foolish, it's a like saying a cat ripped a hole in my couch means it's on a level with the universe because black holes ripes space/time. lol.

LOL i wont even continue to read this further, try to disprove OBE's then? bet you cant. Even funnier is that you can prove astral projection, its quite simple really. all you do is before you project tape a random card from a deck of cards to a window and when you look keep a clear mind and look at the card and reintegrate with your body with a firm idea of what you saw, trial and error it. eventually you'll get better. but i cant prove AP for you, you need to learn yourself. LOL and when you die and have the strongest form of OBE you will see and become dumbfounded. either way, live your life to the fullest and when you die you will see. idc if you believe me or not dont expect me to reply back in this thread, people will believe what they want, but when truth hits you in the face you cant ignore it. upon death you wont be able to ignore, your not dead. never will be.