It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

You're Going To Die. Beg to Differ?

page: 1
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:24 AM
link   
As far as we know it so far, we are introduced in the womb of your mother (excluding all test tube babies out there, no harm Whisper67).

We are created, and birthed out of this canal, into the world with a quick slap on the arse and then we go on our way.

We grow up, we are indoctrinated into religious groups such as islam, hinduism, or christianity.

My middle name is Joseph, named after Jesus' father as i'm told, which makes me wonder why my middle name isn't Yahweh if we get technical.

My First name is Michael, for the Archangel Michael, or John travolta, for you know Michael. lol.

Last name Wood, for well fathers side last name passing on.


Look the name up it doesn't matter it's an extremely common name 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of em!

To the point though, indoctrination as a child was an extreme thing for me, which I still have to cope with, because i've had my whole beginning of life told to me by my mother as "A gift from god, from a prayer". When as horrid a picture acquires somewhere before exterminated, my parents did it, and got me here. Simple, two people had sex and I became, who I am here.

My mother had to get nutrients and hormones caused this, to be a want, and she took them in so I could be a healthy baby, and eventually an end result adult.

Now, this is pretty rational thinking in my opinion.

But, I find myself thinking in my 'atheistic' ways, that "No, no, no I don't want to die, this isn't 'just' it! I want to live forever, I can't imagine not being!''

Yet, besides a philosophical or theological well worded text can say, I am born from atoms and will eventually turn back to atoms, and that there was no before, and eventually I will see no after, after my death that is.

When you die, it's very simplistic, you will die, you're brain will shut down, you're heart will stop beating, you will mangle your body in a horrific car wreck having your heart pieced by a pole hanging off a pickup truck.

You will decompose, or (be cremated). You're atoms will fall apart, and everything will go back into the earth.

Now a nice, happy, optimist, delusional person, will say to you. No no no, this isn't so, your atoms may die, your cells may dissassemble, but in the midst of that, your soul will (that which makes you who you are) will rise up, and go into a mystical place called the heavens, and a deity will judge you on your: sexual acts, whether you believed jesus was your savior *or whomever*, such as and so on.

But, if we look at it simply as it is, it's quite frightening!

I find myself fighting for atheism, and thinking, well Michael, why not just believe in christianity, and feel good knowing you'll live forever.

Well, that's choosing to be delusional, as nice as it sounds to believe in it, i'm quite envious myself of the thought of it, I do find myself upset that people believe in it. Why, that they for some reason believe that, life is a mere 0.0000000000to infinite 1 of what is eternity.

Well thats an atrocity to the gift you've really received! If you're goin to take this life for granted to such an extreme, even of thought, you don't deserve it!

I do know though, that those on ATS, find comfort, and refuge, in saying, 'well i'm agnostic, prove either evolution to me, or prove a certain religion, and be sure I will follow, till then I am neither!"

Well if you go with christianity, and your right, you'll go to hell!, If you go with anything else you'll go to hell for sure.

Why? Because you don't believe it 100% *Requirement*

Or they believe here on ATS, that the soul is one with the universe, and that "well i've had an OBE, explain that to me, haha you can't! Ergo there is a divine connection between myself and the universe itself or god himself!"

That's foolish, it's a like saying a cat ripped a hole in my couch means it's on a level with the universe because black holes ripes space/time. lol.

Or, someone is most likely hiding the phrase "your OBE was a dream, lucid dreamin at that" or "You may need psychiatric help".

But say neither because proving you've left your body, is impossible, and must go solely on a second hand word. Which is poor as that.



Now I've covered quite a bit, aggravatingly on here, but here's the main point of this thread.

YOU ARE GOING TO DIE, AND THAT IS THAT.

Now accept this fact, breathe in, breathe out. Repeat.

What do you fear of death, Pain? Your families loss? Helplessness? The sense of feeling that this is it?

Feel what death is to you, Imagine, that you found out you have 2 days left to live, how would you feel, i'm sure most if not all, would cling to their religion! It's their last strand, it promises them (falsely) that they will not die, and it's a comfort, but a lie at that!

Breaking this off, it leaves us with 2 roads, we either commit horrific acts, or we become the most altruistic people that have ever lived.

This seperates us at a whole.

The point being though, is morality, is what drives religion.

Knowing that, your dog has died, or cat, you assume that well, it hasn't gone on to heaven it's not worth. lol.

But you think you are, or even if aliens genetically made you, still you die, and that is that.

Give up on religion, quit the hold that it has on you, that your morality is cause for your to be so fearful that you should believe in the religion presented to you because it promises you things that aren't proveable, nor reasonable!

When I die, hopefully of a long disease, so I can have a death bed, i'd like my goodbyes forever, and philosophical thoughts, instead of a sudden death.

I know when I die, that's it, game over, the tv turns off, never to be turned on again, no metaphor can describe it.

I live my days much more usefully then I ever have before.

**** If you'd like to add anything on how religion persuades people to believe by scaring them through mortality please add
****




posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:55 AM
link   
Wow, thats some deep stuff. I kind of know how you feel, but probably not to the same extent as you. Over the last few years I've gone from christian to atheist, but to question a persons morality based on their religion is unnecessary. I give you props man.


[edit on 7/30/2009 by TheAntiHero420]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:10 AM
link   
Yep. Last time I checked, the ratio of death to life is still the same; 1:1.
And the way I look at it, any day you wake up on this side of the dirt, it's a good day.
But you asked about beleif in God. I happen to believe in God, for the simple reason that I have thought long and hard, and I can't get around one thing. And that thing is The First Cause. I can deal with the Big Bang, and I can deal with the expanding universe, that will one day, "billyons, and billyons" of years from now, start shrinking back on itself. (Sorry, but I had a Carl Sagan moment.) I need to know what was going on one second before the Big Bang!
The religion I have chosen to follow is Christianity, although I have studied other religions and find many things that I believe are quite useful in a spiritual life. I am not a traditional christian. I read the Bible on occaision. I don't attend services. And I don't believe because of fear. I do believe that something of us survives death, a consciousness that joins with others, whether it is in heaven, or merging with the Consciousness that some of us choose to call God. I could be wrong, but if I am, I have lost nothing.
Hope this gives you a little insight.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:17 AM
link   
reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Well I hope you believe jesus lived and died for your sins, otherwise, you're damned to hell in your own opinion.

Although, you wish to know what happened one sec before the big bang.

I wish to know what caused the big bang, and even more what caused that!?

I cannot accept the absurd idea, a human like tyrannical, bipolar, vindicative, deity just did it.

I think there is much more then we have learned, the universe is huge.

The outside of the universe must be much bigger, and have much more answers, why stop so short... why. We could've stopped long ago, and think the sun revolved around us, but curiousity gets one of us sooner or later, and we expand our knowledge.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:19 AM
link   
How can one truly imagine " not being". Just gone, its almost impossible for me to comprehend.

Guess I've just seen to much to say we simply cease to exist. I've been there man, ... there ain't no goin back.

And yes, you are rational in your thought process, .. however, when scientists laughed at the idea of invisible agents causing infection and disease, ... these men too, were rational.
And once the earth was thought to be flat, ... by all rational accounts.

I guess what I'm saying is, .... The universe is still a mystery in itself, and as our role in it is still intangible, .... at least the possibility of an afterlife exists.

Perhaps one day it will be to all, what it is to me, .... common knowledge.

I did want to add, perhaps if we live with the concept of our own mortality, ... our days would truly be better spent, ... and no matter what happens, there would be no regrets.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by IntastellaBurst]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:24 AM
link   

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Well I hope you believe jesus lived and died for your sins, otherwise, you're damned to hell in your own opinion.

Although, you wish to know what happened one sec before the big bang.

I wish to know what caused the big bang, and even more what caused that!?

I cannot accept the absurd idea, a human like tyrannical, bipolar, vindicative, deity just did it.

I think there is much more then we have learned, the universe is huge.

The outside of the universe must be much bigger, and have much more answers, why stop so short... why. We could've stopped long ago, and think the sun revolved around us, but curiousity gets one of us sooner or later, and we expand our knowledge.


you do realize that there are other belief systems besides atheism and christianity right?

before worrying about what happened before the big bang, ask yourself this . . . Are you so sure the "big bang" happened???

[edit on 7/30/2009 by JPhish]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:25 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


I would like to know how you came up with the presumption that when we die there isn't a heaven?

As far as I can tell the only way of knowing that information is that you actually die.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


Yes, we are all going to die.

The question is how?

And I do believe in Jesus, but a lot of people don't.

You know what I wish?

I wish that people who do not believe in Jesus would look at the world as it is now, and then look at the world as it would be if everyone followed what Jesus said.

It is simple. He said - love others, forgive others, do not judge others, and look after your brother (meaning everyone).

That is so simple, and yet the powers that be choose to ignore it.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Republican08
 


I would like to know how you came up with the presumption that when we die there isn't a heaven?

As far as I can tell the only way of knowing that information is that you actually die.


I would like to know why you presume or, assume it's possible that there is a heaven, made of gold bricks in the ground, a crap load of virgins or whatever when you die? such humanistic ideas of what we'd like heaven to be.

Why is that what most believe is when you die?

I believe when you die, you suffer the same fate as when you have Mononucleosis, then you don't you killed it off. Does it go to heaven too? Probably not, because you dont.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:29 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


Yes, we are all going to die.

The question is how?

And I do believe in Jesus, but a lot of people don't.

You know what I wish?

I wish that people who do not believe in Jesus would look at the world as it is now, and then look at the world as it would be if everyone followed what Jesus said.

It is simple. He said - love others, forgive others, do not judge others, and look after your brother (meaning everyone).

That is so simple, and yet the powers that be choose to ignore it.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


I hate it when people answer a question with another question.

As you know I don't presume there is or isn't a heaven.

Could there be? Yes

Could there not be? Yes

I live my life as a decent person who does there best not to wrong others. When I die and there is a heaven I hope I am accepted, if there isn't then I still lived a decent life that I hope my friends and loved ones will remember me by.

So I direct you back to my question in my previous post.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:33 AM
link   
I don't know about Heaven. I think that when I die, I will go and live with the fictional characters of Northern Exposure. I plan on marrying Maggie, waking up to 'Chris in the Morning' on the radio and drinking bourbon at the Brick everyday!

IRM



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Republican08
 


Yes, we are all going to die.

The question is how?

And I do believe in Jesus, but a lot of people don't.

You know what I wish?

I wish that people who do not believe in Jesus would look at the world as it is now, and then look at the world as it would be if everyone followed what Jesus said.

It is simple. He said - love others, forgive others, do not judge others, and look after your brother (meaning everyone).

That is so simple, and yet the powers that be choose to ignore it.



I quoted your whole thing because.

You base Jesus off morals. He wasn't ultimately about that, by that case Confucious would be equal or better then jesus.

Jesus was a scapegoat for our sins, nothing more.

You cannot change people, we can live good, I love certain parts of the bible, yet despise others.

Contradictions are all over the bible.

Yet some ring true, love thy brother, and *the, they thee allalala* whatever. I will love my neighbor, but he molests my child, the love is gone.

Hate doesn't fill, but disregard for his existence fills in.

Jesus can be easily replaced with other religious figures easily so.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:42 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


All I said is that if the world lived by what He taught, we would be OK.

I didn't say believe in Him.

Just that what He said makes sense.

And He deserves a capital H.

And if I was Jesus, I would have said "Stuff these idiots" a long time ago, but He hasn't.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by jd140
reply to post by Republican08
 


I would like to know how you came up with the presumption that when we die there isn't a heaven?

As far as I can tell the only way of knowing that information is that you actually die.


I apologize for retorting with another question. I should've known you hated that, by your numerous posts about it.

Seriously.

I presume there is no heaven, by there being no evidence of heaven.

Ghosts are still not proven, as much as we'd like to open our minds up till we believe in santa claus, and believe in ghosts we have no evidence.

Well maybe the dead are hidden, well why? Wouldn't they want to help? Maybe by psychics? Well their all cold readers and making money off emotions sickenly!

Living a good life is not bad, living it only by means of fearing a eternity (eternity bein a never ending, and forever amount of buring and never stop feeling the sensation of burning) of hell, is obviously not a very nice way of putting free will into our lives.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:49 AM
link   
I'm not scared of death in the slightest, never have been.

I mean, it happens to everyone so why be scared of something so inevitable?


As for God, I definitely don't believe in religion. Not in the slightest.
Kids have to be taught religion... if God had a message for us, it wouldn't be passed down over generations, it'd be built in to us.

We'd be born with the natural desire to praise God, same as we have to breathe or eat.

I know about the 'free will' argument... God wants us to choose to praise him and all that... but I can't choose not to breathe.
I can hold my breath for as long as possible, but I can't hold it until I die... my body just starts breathing again.

Hence free will isn't complete, and if Jesus was as important to our salvation as Christianity says, then we'd accept him and praise God, just the same as we breathe.


I can't rule out the possibilty of a God, but I completely denounce religions. They are man made, and false.. .every single one of them.

In my humble opinion, of course.


So I don't fear death at all.... if there's a God, I'm sure I'll be going to him regardless of religion.
If there's no God, I'll be completely dead, unaware, and so it won't matter.

Nothing to fear whatsoever!



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by spellbound
And if I was Jesus, I would have said "Stuff these idiots" a long time ago, but He hasn't.


Jesus, if he existed, died a looooong time ago.

You speak as though he's still around and caring about us....



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:55 AM
link   
reply to post by axehappy
 


Depending on religions, you'll most likely be in hell


lol

I fear death to the part, that I miss the most traumatic and inspirational moments in time!

Imagine the slave being beat by their master who never saw or heard of Martin Luther King Jr.

Or well you can make up your own situations in the future!

But we will never see it, that's what upsets me, and religions upsets me because it poses a answer which says, you will see it looking down.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:55 AM
link   
reply to post by Republican08
 


Okay you believe there is not a heaven because there isn't any evidence to support it.

The problem is that there can never be evidence of a heaven because you must die first to get your evidence.

It would be like me asking for proof that you are really a human and not an ET or that there isn't an ending to numbers.

There is no way for you to prove it.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:03 AM
link   
You and I think alike it seems to a degree.

Me and my friend were talking the other day, and I asked him, why do us as humans continue on when we know we just die, what does it matter if I die the next second or 90 years from now? the result is still the same, The love I feel now will be the same as if I had never loved at all, The time I have on this rock, will be no more. So why do we continue on, is it the fear of not being here, but ultimately knowing your going to die, but the prolonging of the inevitable some how makes us wait it out?


It is this very question, that has got me thinking that there is something far beyond my comprehension that stops me from just offing myself and has me riding this life out until my body just says, yep, we will no longer be.

to believe is unbelievable, to not is believable.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join