You're Going To Die. Beg to Differ?

reply to post by axehappy


Funny you should say that, because He is.

But even if you don't believe that, wouldn't you rather have peace, love, enough of everything for everyone, no more hatred and killing?

Or maybe you would like to wage war, kill everything around, wreck the planet - I don't know.

If you believe in Biblical Scripture, Enoch and a certain King were two that never died.

If you believe in higher consciousness, all of this is not real, and when we obtain our higher self, anything is possible and we can create, without limitations, reality and instantaniously be anywhere at any moment, past, present and future, as we wish.

My father was one like you. He considered death to be it. -The end, Done.

Funny that, as a child, he had an apparition of Mary appear to him, yet he would not attend mass, church functions or even give up well placed explatives, while my mother is very much a religious person and has saintly qualities.

What caused him to be this way,? Some, believe, (I think woul, that a personal appearance by Mary to you would be a life changing religious experience that would further you in your faith.

What could cause a lack of participation after such an event?

For my father it was that a parish priest was not available for his fathers memmorial.
It pissed him off so bad, he never went back, and for awhile, chastised my mother for continuing there.

On his deathbed, he couldn't believe how easy it is to "go to heaven" as my sisters worried about his eternal life for years, convinced him that all he had to do was ask Jesus and believe, or such.

I wasn't there during the, evidently successful attempts to redeem his soul, and found out later from my sister who convinced him, alone at the hospital.

When we gathered around, keeping is non-blinking eyes moist and attempting to offer comfort, but his heavily medicated state was somewhat depressing as helpless as we are in these situations.

As he was struggling to breath, but stubbornly made sure all of us had arrived so he could have a last goodbye.

While gathered there, my sisters began letting him know that he will be in heaven soon and he doesn't have to fight the pain anymore, and citing prayers, one by one, then in chorus.

I could tell this was not what he wanted to hear, even though he never moved, and only the watery eyes and shallow breathing wer e the only signs of life, and since a long talk alone the day before, I hadn't spoke but to let him know I was there, but at this moment I knew he was patronising them, I don't know how, but I just knew, and I cut in on my sisters efforts and with purpose, I spoke to him.

I said..."Hey dad..remember that time we were all at the river and all the kids were swimming in that fishing hole and you let me try your brand new pole?"

(I was fishing with a hook, sinker and salmon egg in the same hole my 5 siblings were thrashing about in, and I pulled out a nice 13" rainbow)
I continued;

"You were so amazed that I caught that fish while everyone was splashing about in that hole, you gave me your pole and said "if you can catch a fish with that pole while 5 kids are playing in the same hole, you deserve to keep it. Remember?"

"I sure was proud of that pole boy. I loved that pole."

For the first time since his condition worstened, I could feel his pleasure in hearing those words and remembering a time when, as kids we were happily playing in the river and fishing.
At that moment, he did somehow smile, and then departed.

My Father never told me about the apparition, but he told my mother, and She told me years ago.

I do sometimes feel that that is it. The end, Done.
But, I feel better believing there is more, that death is but a birth to a place where there is no pain, suffering, crime, war, death....

Even if it isn't so, it feels better and in a sense allows me to feel purpose.

Isn't that alone worthy of some form of faith?

I feel that because of the good feeling it gives to think there is an afterlife as contrarily, the dark emotions when thinking that there is no more and when you die, game over.

Why live a life that has no purpose and nothing to look forward to?

If it feels better, it must be better and somehow, my spirit lets me know, and that may be the proof to convince me there is more.

Right or wrong, It is healthier, IMHO.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by axehappy

 

Funny you should say that, because He is.

But even if you don't believe that, wouldn't you rather have peace, love, enough of everything for everyone, no more hatred and killing?

Or maybe you would like to wage war, kill everything around, wreck the planet - I don't know.

I totally agree with the message. I'd much rather have all the things you mentioned in the world than hatred and killing.

I just don't see that ever being the normal way of things unfortunately.

In fact, if Jesus came back right now to try and spread his message again, he'd probably be laughed out, and most likely beaten up too.

reply to post by axehappy


Yes, He is around and caring for us.

Even you.

reply to post by imd12c4funn


You're entitled to believe in whatever you like to help you through life.

I personally believe that life has no 'great purpose' and we're just animals that have the unusual ability to think about existence. I won't rule out the possibility of a god, but I certainly won't live my life in expectance of being received by him/her/it.

But I don't feel bad because of that, you know?
I'm pretty comfortable with that thought.

Just remember, if it IS final, and you just die and that's it well... you won't know anything about it.
It'll just be like switching off the TV... end, finished.
So its hardly anything to be scared of.

Just live now, try not to worry about things that are out of your control... you WILL die, and only then will you find out if there's an afterlife.

reply to post by axehappy


Yes, just like He was last time. Because we are so stupid.

I have to repeat that in a second line - because we are stupid and we abuse our own fellowman and animals and the planet earth.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by axehappy

 

Yes, He is around and caring for us.

Even you.

If that's true, then that's brilliant, and I'm really happy about that.

But you're stating it like its a fact. Belief in something doesn't make it real unfortunately. But you might be right, one day we'll find out for sure!

Just, right now... I don't believe that. Its a nice thought though.

reply to post by axehappy


You are right.

It is nice having this exchange of ideas.

I repeat, I am not forcing Jesus on anyone, only asking you to think what his clues to live by mean - I reiterate - no more wars, love and peace.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by axehappy

 

Yes, just like He was last time. Because we are so stupid.

I have to repeat that in a second line - because we are stupid and we abuse our own fellowman and animals and the planet earth.

Yes, I completely agree. We are stupid.
We've accomplished a lot as a species, but there's been a cost.

A lot of other species have been made extinct because of us, and the planet as a whole is suffering.

But we are, by nature, a selfish and greedy animal. We have the mental capacity to realise that and attempt to override it.

Unfortunately, most people don't care enough and are happy to be selfish and greedy because it benefits them, they get what they want. Its this that causes most wars, and most of the problems in the world.

"First you have to give up, first you have to *know*... not fear... *know*... that someday you're gonna die." -Fight Club

"This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time." -Fight Club

I think I read someone write on ATS that I was not alive for the last 13.4 Billion years that the Universe existed and I didn't seem to mind so it will probably not be so bad to be dead.

So a person without a religion is moraly corrupt and cares nothing for anything or anyone? Are you implying that if everyone in the world was atheist or another religion there wouldn't be peace and love for each other? Christians are notorious for not caring; go to a church and ask the people inside if they believe that homosexuals have the right to get married. You'll probably get an answer somewhere along the lines of marriage is between a man, a woman and god.

reply to post by JPhish
I don't know there was a big bang. I am accepting the theory of the Big Bang and the expanding universe is probably accurate based on the measurements astronomers have made over the years.
Regardless, the question was about belief in God. Regardless of the way I look at it, I still am unable to get past the First Cause. Something or Someone initiated the whole thing. I am honest enough to admit my ignorance, and say I don't know. I choose to call the First Cause God.

reply to post by TheAntiHero420
I think you assume to much. The "christians" you refer too are posers. The real Christians are out there in the trenches, doing what needs to be done, whether it is handing out blankets to the homeless in the winter, along with a hot meal, or helping families in financial difficulties get over the rough times, or running free medical clinics. Perhaps they volunteer at nursing homes or hospitals. And not only do they give their time, but their money to various organizations.
Don't equate true Christianity with "christians."

I am not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens - Mark Twain.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. I will not die, the reality I am in that gives the illusion of life is all that will die.

So...let me get this straight.
You basically wrote all of that to convince me that I'm delusional and thus I should accept your belief system?

That sounds like what I hear from some religious folks.

I beg to differ. Because life as we know it is not what it seems. At least not to the human perspective. I think life as we know it is nothing more than an illusion and that human life was dead before it existed. Because it never really existed. It is all an illusion.

Originally posted by Geladinhu
So...let me get this straight.
You basically wrote all of that to convince me that I'm delusional and thus I should accept your belief system?

That sounds like what I hear from some religious folks.

It was actually a tiny, itty bitty bit, of a rant.

By all means I didn't write it just for you you egomaniac! lol

I think it'd be fantastic if you accepted my belief system.

Religion, gotta fight fire with fire.

reply to post by Republican08


I would think that you would fight fire with water...
I don't know, thats just me.

Tell me, why would it be fantastic if I accepted your belief system?
How would that have any significance to you?

I don't think that what really matters is the belief system that each of us have. I think what really matters is how we behave based on our beliefs.

And many different people, with different belief systems intriguingly behave exactly the same. So what about shifting our attention to behavior instead of belief? Belief may help us understand the behavior, but I believe there is no efficiency in attacking beliefs.

I would rather burn in hell forever then not exist. I just don't want everything to be over forever. Feeling pain and suffering is better then not existing in my opinion. Also if god is all forgiving, all loving, and all caring then wouldn't everyone go to heaven? So if their is a god no one has anything to worry about.

reply to post by Geladinhu


Ramachandran look him up, Vilrayusu First name

And check out my threads: On the Basis of Morality, Case for Evolution, etc etc etc.