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Telling Israel No: Obama's Bold Move

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posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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if we want peace in the Middle east, which i believe we all do? There has to be a peaceful solution between Palestine and Israel , the US is in a way is responsible for Israel and must reign them in and try and establish a workable solution to the problem. This conflict is at the crux of modern disputes, from afghanistan to Iraq.

The US would do it's self no harm finally reigning in the Israelis and getting the talks moving.

There is no such thing as a chosen people because there is no such thing as God, and Any god that choses one people over another is obviously not a very nice God




posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by xoxo stacie
 

You are right. There was a diaspora that spread the jews through out the world. But God promised that the Jews would once again return Israel(as they are doing at this moment), that the temple would be rebuilt and sacrifices would resume.
Better take a look at the country we are discussing sweetie. The implements needed for sacrifice and decorating the Temple are being made.
Gershom Solomon is leading the way in rebuilding the Temple. In fact, the cornerstone has already been cut.
And lineages have been traced, and young men chosen for the priesthood.
Don't have to believe me, look it up.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:15 AM
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How many Arabs live, own property, vote and work in Israel?

How many Jews will be allowed to live in the proposed "Palestinian State"?

Hint: The P.A. reserves the death penalty for any Palestinian who sells land to a Jew.

The way things are going Israel will tell Obama to keep his "guaranteed loans", shove them where the sun doesn't shine, and in future mind his own bloody business. Quite honestly with friends like that Israel doesn't need enemies.

I also wonder how long George Mitchell will put up with being summoned to Ramallah for every planning application submitted in East Jerusalem. Utterly ridiculous.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith

 
I believe Israel has the right to exist.


Do you believe Palestine does?
Do you believe that Israel are incapable of wrong doings?
Do you believe that all of Israels actions are rubber stamped by god?
Do you believe the rest of the world should agree with Israel on everything?


IRM



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by mattpryor
How many Arabs live, own property, vote and work in Israel?

How many Jews will be allowed to live in the proposed "Palestinian State"?

Hint: The P.A. reserves the death penalty for any Palestinian who sells land to a Jew.

The way things are going Israel will tell Obama to keep his "guaranteed loans", shove them where the sun doesn't shine, and in future mind his own bloody business. Quite honestly with friends like that Israel doesn't need enemies.

I also wonder how long George Mitchell will put up with being summoned to Ramallah for every planning application submitted in East Jerusalem. Utterly ridiculous.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by mattpryor]


Well the ideal solution would be a one state solution, where all arabs and jews can live in the same state, without one group being treated different to the other.
This would seem an imposiblity, with the animosity each hold against each other, so a 2 state solution must be reached, where the Palestinians are entitled to their own state.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by woodwardjnr
 


The point I was trying to make is that Israel has no problem with non-Jews living within Israel. They all have the same rights under law.

~23% of the population of Israel is Muslim. They are also represented in the Knesset with the Ra'am-Ta'al party (Israel has proportional representation to ensure that minorities are represented).

Does nobody think it's outrageous that the proposed Palestinian state has to be "Jew free", and that is the reason that the P.A. (and by proxy, Obama) are kicking up such a stink about "settlements"?



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:05 AM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


The behaviour of Israel over recent years has been disgraceful. I cannot support them based on that alone.

Obama should go as far as to take military action again them if the EVER try and do what they did in Lebanon and Gaza in the future.

Israel needs to remember some lessons from the past. Its coming across as a nasty, bitter, evil place these days.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
God stated..


Sure. Whatever.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by Beach Bum
Wow is seems like Obama gets dumber every day. Trying to tell the chosen people what to do doesn't go well very long maybe he should bone up on his history or at least fix the cranial rectum insertion problem he seems to have.
When will people learn no one here can force peace in the middle east it just doen't happen. the best part is him telling them they can't build on their own land I'd be telling him to piss off.

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]


I thin you're serious, aren't you? Obama Dumb?! Chosen People?! Ridiculous! Hang your head in shame.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Israel needs to remember some lessons from the past. Its coming across as a nasty, bitter, evil place these days.


You hit the nail on the head there. Maybe you should go there and find out yourself instead of relying on the (compromised, corrupt, out of touch) media.

reply to post by breakingdradles
 


Your signature is utterly disgusting.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by mattpryor]



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Would it have been ok if it had been decided that where you live right now was going to be used to form a state and that you'd be leaving, like it or not?

I suspect not.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 


I think any man acting against another on behalf of his so called religion is scum.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by mattpryor
 


Actions speak louder than words.

I will never go to Israel. I like Israeli's i've met but their government is a disgrace and the actions of their soldiers against civillians is no better than that of the Nazis. Now i know "godwins law" but you'd have thought they'd have learned a lesson from that awful event, not taken a leaf out of their book.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 





Israel will not be invaded and defeated. Even if you remove the God factor, Israel has something people tend to forget. Israel has nuclear weapons, if the destruction of Israel seems likely, they well excercise the "Samson Option" which will effectively destroy the middle ease, including the state of Israel. You see, the Jews take the slogan "Never again" quite seriously.


And you think that is in any way normal and Godly do you? God's chosen people...well yes, you chose to believe that is what the Bible says, choose to believe that is what was actually meant and choose to believe it is the word of God, not a deeply flawed man or men. Although having broken these commandments that qualify you as the 'chosen' people, the whole 'contract' seems null and void to me.
It is like someone who has been bullied reacting and becoming ten times worse a bully because they learnt nothing from the experience and rather than walking the path of light and good (God) are walking the path of ignorance and darkness (evil).



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by kettlebellysmith
 


Would it have been ok if it had been decided that where you live right now was going to be used to form a state and that you'd be leaving, like it or not?

I suspect not.



Thanks for the reply, but I have to politely disagree with your analogy.

What you say is not only false reductionism, but it is a gross distortion of the truth. I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume not. You may wish to educate yourself on the complicated history of the place, starting from 1890ish and up to modern day. Then tell me:

- When did Arab violence against Jewish immigrants start, and what were the reasons?
- When did the Israelis declare independence from Britain and form their own state?
- When did Israel "occupy" Gaza and Judea/Samaria?

If Israel had indeed stolen land from Arabs then formed their own state and then suffered violence and terrorism as a result then I'd agree with you. But that wasn't the case, and what you are stating is a reversal of causality. Don't worry, you're not alone - it's the oldest trick in the book and the revisionist propaganda machine, funded by Western oil money and aided by nice well-intentioned people such as yourself, has been doing it since 1967.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
reply to post by breakingdradles
 
It won't be the end of Israel. But it will be the end of those who turn their backs on Israel.



You have got to be kidding me.

How does that make sense?

God will strike all of Man down because we are condemning the Israelites or something?

ARE YOU FOR REAL?

Please, start watching the news and reading up on fact rather than reading the Bible day and night such that you become confused between politics and religion.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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Interesting reading these reviews of this book by Schlomo Zand…maybe the truth is that you have no real claim to the land and no real claim to be chosen or otherwise and that the people of Palestine are the more pure descendants.


azvsas.blogspot.com...




"No population remains pure over a period of thousands of years. But the chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I are its descendents. The first Zionists, up until the Arab Revolt [1936-9], knew that there had been no exiling, and that the Palestinians were descended from the inhabitants of the land. They knew that farmers don't leave until they are expelled. Even Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, the second president of the State of Israel, wrote in 1929 that, 'the vast majority of the peasant farmers do not have their origins in the Arab conquerors, but rather, before then, in the Jewish farmers who were numerous and a majority in the building of the land.'"#




What if the entire tale of the Jewish Diaspora -- the story recounted at Passover tables by Jews around the world every year detailing the ancient Jews` exile from Judea, the years spent wandering through the desert, their escape from the Pharaoh`s clutches -- is all wrong?




`Although the myth of an exile from the Jewish homeland (Palestine) does exist in popular Israeli culture, it is negligible in serious Jewish historical discussions.` Bartal added: `no historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically `pure.` ` He noted that `mportant groups in the [Zionist] movement expressed reservations regarding this myth or denied it completely.`



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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You people are amazing. If some other country came and told your country who can live there and where you'd be INCENSED! You'd riot, rebel, and plead to other countries "please don't let this happen". Just like Israel is doing with THEIR country.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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Sanctions,freeze israeli assets in the EU and America,no arms shipping.Israel will buckle faster than you can blink....course that won't happen as a i believe this whole ordeal is nothing but a dog and pony show.



posted on Jul, 30 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Israel will not lose American support IMO.

But they can no longer afford a business as usual stance. They like the rest of the world will have to learn to get along with their neighbors. It's not just the Israelis but also their Muslim neighbors who will have to make adjustments and concessions.

PA, Israeli ministers meet in Tel Aviv

The first ministerial level meeting between Israel and the Palestinian authority since the establishment of the Netanyahu government took place yesterday in Tel Aviv. Vice Prime Minister Silvan Shalom and Palestinian Minister of National Economy, Dr. Bassim Khoury, both attended a conference on economic peace organized by the Peres Center for Peace, Tel Aviv University and the German Friedrich Ebert Stiftung fund.



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