The Requirement to pay income taxes is ILLEGAL!

The reason the 16th Amendment is illegal is because we have a right in the Constitution not to be taxed for are labor by Capitation.

This means a direct, progressive income tax. A flat tax would be legal but not a progressive income tax. A progressive income tax was pushed by people like Karl Marx.

He said:
"In the most advanced countries the following will be pretty generally applicable: a heavy progressive or graduated income tax."

Our Constitution specifically prohibits a progressive income tax. This means Congress has no power to take away this right.

The Constitution says:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Capitation means:

cap·i·ta·tion (kp-tshn)
n.
1. A poll tax.
2. A payment or fee of a fixed amount per person

They then say unless in PROPORTION TO THE CENSUS.

This means, if your going to tax something like income it has to be at the same rate. It can't be a Progressive tax.

THIS IS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY THE CONSTITUTION.

This means the 16th Amendment is illegal. The 16th Amendment takes away our rights not to be taxed on our incomes.

A fair tax or national sales tax would be legal but a progressive tax on income is illegal.

The 16th Amendment says this:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

This Amendment specifically takes away our Constitutional right not to be directly taxed unless that tax was proptionate to the census. In other words, no progressive tax.

The Government can Amend the Constitution to give rights like the right to vote. They can't take away rights.

The 16th Amendment doesn't say anything about the Government having the right to force you to pay this income tax. It just says they have the right to lay and collect taxes. It doesn't say they have the power to force you to pay this tax.

The income tax has to be a voluntary tax.

The 16 Amendment also doesn't give the Government the right to set Capitation or a certain tax to be collected based on income. So there's nothing in the 16th Amendment that says they can collect a certain fee or tax.

They try to get around this by saying, you volunteer to file your taxes and you determine the taxes you pay.

This is a lie.

You have no choice, if you don't volunteer then you will go to jail.

Secondly, they set income tax brackets and this is Capitation and this is illegal. Here's the 2009 tax brackets for filing as a single person. This is Capitation and this is illegal.

10% on income between $0 and $8,350

15% on the income between $8,350 and $33,950; plus $835

25% on the income between $33,950 and $82,250; plus $4,675

28% on the income between $82,250 and $171,550; plus $16,750

33% on the income between $171,550 and $372,950; plus $41,754

35% on the income over $372,950; plus $108,216

taxes.about.com...

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Matrix Rising]

[edit on 27-7-2009 by Matrix Rising]

If only you could convince the federal judges who depend on part of that tax as their paycheck. We already know Congress isn't going to agree with you.

How can it be illegal if its in the Constitution?
The Constitution is what determines these sort of issues.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Perhaps the shortest of all the amendments, here it is.
Amendment XVI
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

TRY reading this:

U.S. Constitution, Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
E N D

Foot Note. The 16th Amendment was offered to the states by Congress on July 12, 1909, and was declared RATIFIED on February 25, 1913. New Mexico was the "over the top" state ratifying on February 3, 1913.

LEARN TO LOVE IT!

[edit on 7/27/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


The 16th Amendment says nothing about Capitation.

It says nothing about a requirement to pay the income tax.

It says the Government can lay and collect income tax. It doesn't say that you are required to pay the income tax.

If the Government reqired you to pay an income tax then that would be Capitation.

The 16th Amendment says:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

So this means they have the power to tax income but they don't have the power to require you to pay income taxes. Nowhere in this Amendment does it say you are required to pay this tax. They can't say this because they know it would be Capitation.

So it has to be voluntary.

The Constitution says:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

No Capitation means they can't require you to pay. They can ask you to pay but they can't require it.

Tell me where it says that you are required to pay this tax in the 16th Amendment? If they require it then it's Capitation.

Just as our rights in America were given to us, they can be taken from us. So do not be surprised in what they are doing because they make, break, and take the laws, and then make new ones that we never know about. Unless we read and find out for ourselves..

Maybe this will help the debate one way or the other.

Income Tax................................................ 1953
History and Purpose of the Amendment...................... 1953
Income Subject to Taxation................................ 1954
Corporate Dividends: When Taxable................. 1955
Corporate Earnings: When Taxable.................. 1958
Gains: When Taxable............................... 1960
Income from Illicit Transactions.................. 1962
Deductions and Exemptions......................... 1962
Diminution of Loss................................ 1963

www.gpoaccess.gov...

I should have worded it differently.

They can collect income taxes and the 16th Amendment is legal they just don't have the power to require you to pay this tax.

If it was required then it would be Capitation.

If I buy a suit, then a tax is required for me to purchase the suit.

They can't require you to pay an income tax or that's Capitation.

The only way an income tax can be required is if it's a Flat Tax. This means they have to take a census and then tax us all at the same rate.

If your doing a Progressive tax it can't be a tax that you are required to pay or that's Capitation.

reply to post by donwhite


Try doing some more research. First there is the 9th amendment. You can't just pass whatever you want and add it to the constitution, there are limits.

2nd, there were numerous supreme court rulings on this issue, and it was determined that the 16th amendment gave no further taxing powers to congress.

3rd. "income" only refers to profits, labor is not profit, it is an equal exchange - your time has value - also ruled on by the supreme court.

4th, the income tax was considered voluntary when introduced for these reasons.

On a side note, those judges do not receive anything from income tax, nor does your income tax go towards paying for any service. As established in the 1980's, in a government report prepared for Reagan(ordered before he was shot), 100% of all income taxes go to the federal reserve as interest payment on the national debt.

Grace Commision Report

Directly from that report.

Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:

* One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.
* Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy-a vicious cycle that must be broken.
* With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.

For some reason, your name is familiar, and not in a good way.

[edit on 7/27/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


Very, Very Good post.

This is why Bernanke and the Fed loves printing money because we are forced illegaly to pay the income tax.

So the bankers at the Fed print up money for nothing. It doesn't cost them anything and then they collect billions in income tax which this Government can't require you to pay.

This is why America is always in the hole. It's because the Fed prints money and then charges us to print the money.

reply to post by Matrix Rising

The 16th Amendment says nothing about Capitation.

Yes and no.

It does not use the word “capitation” but it does say “ . . without regard to any census or enumeration.” Capitation means “people by count” which is what a census or enumeration does. People who update the laws have struck this Section 9, Clause 4; “No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.” from the Constitution.

It says nothing about a requirement to pay the income tax. It doesn't say that you are required to pay the income tax. The 16th Amendment says: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

I think you are blocking something here Mr M/R. You are on quicksand when you say “. . power to lay and collect taxes on incomes . . ” does not give Congress power to lay and collect taxes on incomes. That won’t fly.

The 16th Amendment’s reference to “apportionment” repealed Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3, which was a repeat of the Articles of Confederation where the Continental Congress could only tax STATES and not PEOPLE directly. The tax on states was to be based on the census or capitation of the state. Example: Say Virginia had 2 million people and Maryland 1 million. Then the tax on Virginia could be $10 million but if so, then it had to be $5 million on Maryland. That is both “apportionment” and “capitation.” Both of which have been repealed.

So this means they have the power to tax income but they don't have the power to require you to pay income taxes. Nowhere in this Amendment does it say you are required to pay this tax. They can ask you to pay but they can't require it. Tell me where it says that you are required to pay this tax in the 16th Amendment?

That statement Is not consistent with Standard English Usage. You should know from real life that statement is WRONG and FALSE. You should know the Internal Revenue Code is law and the Internal Revenue Service can put you in jail for not paying your taxes. It cannot be made plainer than that.

Now look at this: Article 1, Section 8. “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”

This provision was written in 1787. It was and is the law of the land. The first income tax was laid on in 1864 by Abraham Lincoln to support the Civil War. It was a graduated tax. The more you made, the more you paid. It was modified from time to time until 1887 when the Supreme Court held ONE part of the statute unconstitutional. Congress then failed to re-write the income tax law. By the 20th century, it was apparent America needed an income tax to support the kind of government modern times required. Hence the 16th Amendment.

reply to post by donwhite


You have to be joking.

Show me where Capitation has been repealed? It has never been repealed.

Nowhere does it say that payment of the income tax is required. Where does it say this?

I want you to show me where it say it's required in the Constitution or in the 16th Amendment.

The Government can't require you to pay a Progressive income tax. They can ask you to pay the income tax but nothing you have said has shown that this is a requirement.

Your own statement sums it up.

Yes and no.

It does not use the word “capitation” but it does say “ . . without regard to any census or enumeration.” Capitation means “people by count” which is what a census or enumeration does. People who update the laws have struck this Section 9, Clause 4; “No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.” from the Constitution.

It doesn't use the word Capitation because the Government knew they couldn't use the word Capitation because of this:

The Constitution says:

No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

So a Progressive Tax has to be voluntary or it's Capitation.

They can tax people without regard to any census but they can't require that you pay that tax or it's Capitation.



[edit on 27-7-2009 by Matrix Rising]

Originally posted by donwhite
By the 20th century, it was apparent America needed an income tax to support the kind of government modern times required. Hence the 16th Amendment.

This is a flat out lie. All the things that government does in "modern times" is against the constitution. IT has been taken from a document of limited government, into a document of limited rights. The 10th amendment has been ignored in all of these things.

The 10th amendment specifically states that anything not specifically listed in the constitution is by default passed down to the states and on to local communites and to the individual. All these "modern times" things you mention are done through a loophole in Article 1, Section 8.

That article has been manipulated into being justification for the government doing whatever it wants, so long as they can say "it's for the good of the people". However, the constitution does mention the "general welfare" in 1 other place, the preamble - which lays out the purpose of the constitution. In the preamble, it states that part of the constitution is to "promote the general welfare". Article 1 Section 8, it says to "provide the general welfare".

It is the amendments themselves that Article 1, Section 8 is referring to, and that is the place where congress is given the permission it needs to in order to uphold the amendments, as is required by the 10th amendment.

So all these services you mention these things being needed for are unconstitutional in themselves. They allow for special rights to certain people and is not inline with the constitution.

For example, universal health care. If we were to follow the constitution correctly, then it would simply be a matter of adding an amendment "The right to health care shall be provided" or whatever. Because it is following the constitution, it is automatically applied to every equally, rather than allowing welfare programs and other programs to special groups like we have now.

Furthermore, I already established the fact that none of the income tax money is even spent on such services. That is another lie/myth. It is all paid on to the national debt.

A national debt which is bogus in itself. When the fed prints up this new money and loans it out, it is getting it's value from the existing currency in circulation. As such, it is a theft in itself. Why is the fed allowed to do this, and then loan out the money at interest(which is never created)? If the US is the richest nation in the world, then to whom is so rich as to have trillions of dollars owed to it by this nation? The fact is, they stole it all from the people to being with, and it's all a scam.

The income tax has nothing to do with services. It is all about paying the false debt and interest to the federal reserve. First came the fed, then came income taxes.

As the people had to actually pay for the wars out of their pockets, it made the people less likely to want to do that. The federal reserve allowed them to bypass the people, and to get the money directly from them, all the while the people have no clue what is being done to their existing purchasing power(inflation, prices go up).

Which is why we have basically been in a constant state of war since the fed was started. 1913, by 1919 ww1. When we weren't in war, we were in a depression. No money for the people, what ends the depression? War - plenty of money for that.

The criminals haven't followed the Constitution for many years. They have forced our hand, we can become slaves by obeying their illegal laws or we can be free by ignoring their illegal laws. I chose to ignore them. I don't pay money to people who are criminal or who kill people. They do both of those and therefore I don't give them any of my money wherever it can be avoided.

reply to post by Matrix Rising


Amendment 16. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

You have to be joking. Show me where Capitation has been repealed? It has never been repealed. Nowhere does it say that payment of the income tax is required. Where does it say this? I want you to show me where it say it's required in the Constitution or in the 16th Amendment.

The Government can't require you to pay a Progressive income tax. They can ask you to pay the income tax but nothing you have said has shown that this is a requirement.

So this means they have the power to tax income but they don't have the power to require you to pay income taxes. Nowhere in this Amendment does it say you are required to pay this tax. They can ask you to pay but they can't require it. Tell me where it says that you are required to pay this tax in the 16th Amendment?

Duh? So POWER has no meaning to you? Nor does COLLECT?

You are not reading my response. The statements you made above are not consistent with Standard English Usage. You should know from real life those statements are both WRONG and FALSE.

You should know the Internal Revenue Code’s progressive income tax is the law of the land! The Internal Revenue Service can put you in prison for not paying your taxes. That is POWER! I do not know how to make in plainer than that.

ASIDE: US Con. Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1. “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;” Emphasis is my own.

This provision was written in the 1787 US Con. It was then and is today the law of the land. The first income tax was laid on in 1864 by Abraham Lincoln to support the Civil War. It was a graduated tax you call “progressive.” The more money you made, the more tax you paid. Just as it is today. The tax code was modified from time to time until 1887 when the Supreme Court held ONE part of the tax statute unconstitutional. Congress failed to re-write the income tax law and so the tax was dropped.

By the 20th century, it was apparent to all that America needed an income tax to support the kind of government modern times required. Hence the 16th Amendment. Income means “money coming in” to you. ALL the money coming in to you!


[edit on 7/28/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by Matrix Rising


so when did op fall off the turnip truck? when did you get you're first clue?

Other things that are illegal

extortion
One entry found.

Main Entry:
ex·tor·tion Listen to the pronunciation of extortion
Pronunciation:
\ik-ˈstȯr-shən\
Function:
noun
Date:
14th century

1: the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property ; especially : the offense committed by an official engaging in such practice2: something extorted ; especially : a gross overcharge

extorting
One entry found.

Main Entry:
ex·tort Listen to the pronunciation of extort
Pronunciation:
\ik-ˈstȯrt\
Function:
transitive verb
Etymology:
Latin extortus, past participle of extorquēre to wrench out, extort, from ex- + torquēre to twist — more at torture
Date:
15th century

: to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power : wring ; also : to gain especially by ingenuity or compelling argument

I guess the 16th is their "compelling argument" and all those federal troopers armed with SMG's and machine guns backed by immunity to do whatever they want to us is their "force and intimidation."

If it's legal for the gov why isnt it legal for the mob or the neighborhood bully?

Accountants with guns at Queens College

IRS trains with ATF/DHS

This segment of training includes new agents from the Department of Homeland Security, the Department Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Bureau, the Secret Service and other federal law enforcement agencies. After CITP is completed, candidates continue on to CI's 16-week specialized training, which includes instruction in tax law, criminal tax fraud, money laundering and a variety of financial fraud schemes. They are also introduced to agency-specific undercover operations, electronic surveillance techniques, forensic sciences, court procedures, interviewing techniques and trial preparation and testifying.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by thisguyrighthere]

I just want to know which president sold us into economic slavery...
thats the SOB I want to piss on his grave....

reply to post by BornPatriot

I just want to know which president sold us into economic slavery... thats the SOB I want to pee on his grave....

I would suggesst that would be George Washington. You will find his grave at Mt. Vernon, VA.

reply to post by BornPatriot


it was L B J, he even admitted it.
some pretty interesting posts and point of views on here, thanks all for the information.