Amish: A silent timebomb

Amish, and Hutterites are horrible for allowing and condoning child abuse.

And they seem to get away with it because "outsiders" who romantize them.

They aren't hard working. They aren't sweet and quaint. And child abuse is child abuse no matter how many of you seem to thing that beating children with objects is a God Given Right.

As bad as any abuse is, considering the Amish, the systematic abuse of the NWO in our schools is infinitely worse. From the dumbing down to the extent that an Amish eighth grader can answer many questions that college graduates cannot answer, the current system is meant to distort and disable our independent thought process. The Amish however contend with reality daily, looking at things and taking care of things.

Don't get me wrong, if there are beatings going on at the Amish camp, they need to be informed about a few civilized and basic standards. On the other hand if you want to compare this with the systematic abuse, the soft and even hard tyranny our regular schools are doing to kids, they are far nearer to being angels.

It’s really ironic that I find myself almost defending the Amish after I spent most of this past Sunday cursing them. I feel that the buggies & carriages are a safety hazard on the modern roads. Even though recent state laws require the buggies to have turn signals, many don’t seem to use them (just as many “English”!).

The Amish are a culture that has been in the US for over 300 years. Little difference then any other migrated people, but they pretty much live in the past, little modernization, etc. That pretty much makes them stick out like sore thumbs, even in the sprawling countryside of south eastern Pennsylvania. The many sects or Orders make the variations very tricky to keep track of, so they are often just all grouped together as Amish.

They are no more a “cult” then an ethnic area of any major city (ie. Chinatown, Little Italy, etc.). Their very nature may contribute to “kissin’ cousins” & inbreeding (not enough forks in the family tree!), but rest assured the OP’s accusations of brothers and sisters being expected to breed is just plain ignorant. That statement is intentionally hurtful, so use the least flattering definition for “ignorant” that you can find.

There seems to be a recent campaign that implies that Amish pay all the same taxes as any other person. This is NOT true, though they pay many more taxes now then they did even 10-15 years ago. This is primarily because their numbers are growing beyond what their closed community can employ & control. Many of those farms contain more modern equipment then an English farm or workshop. I used an Amish guy for some mass woodworking years back. In his workshop were computer controlled machines (20-25 years ago it was the nicest shop for 50 miles) and computer terminals, but they were all powered using a diesel generator located behind the shop. Don’t get me wrong, they still used an outhouse & oil lamps, but they seem to embrace technology only when it helps them earn money. They still live like other did 150 years ago. They could out work most any man you might know. You don't see many fat Amish.

While they do not necessarily make the best neighbors, they really are not bad people. Discipline is not Child Abuse. Being hit on the back of a child’s legs is not abuse. Just as any large group of people, I’m certain there are cases of child abuse, but no more then any other group. In fact, I’d almost place money that it was less. Their children are far better behaved then most of the other hoodlums, yuppies & spoiled brats in this area.

To the OP… I’d be curious to know if they wouldn’t watch you anymore or if your parents wouldn’t send you back?

I figure the only reason the NWO lets these people alone is because they grow the super-organic foods the elite consume. On the other hand, the amish school shooting of a couple of years ago was probably a message. Their days are numbered, just like everybody else's.

reply to post by MadDogtheHunter


The non Amish men of the town should band together and teach these good ol boys a lesson. If the cops cannot deal with them then you can. Problem is ya'll non Amish would get locked up. This is sad indeed. I am not racist but I feel the same way about the illegal imigrants. They do not have to abide by our laws, pay our taxes or practice good hygine. Yet they get all the benefits draining our system and leaving AMERICAN'S to do without. The only thing that is going to fix this is AMERICAN'S. Untill we do something we will slowly be turned into a third world country.

that is very interesting. kinda makes you wonder if the reason why they forgave that guy who killed their kids is because they don't care much about their kids?

i have mixed feelings about how "protected" their culture should be. i think they should have to abide by our laws, but i don't think we should force our culture on them either. i mean, it's not like our culture of violent video games and Paris Hilton is so much better.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Donnie you are right we should not force any one into any culture. That being said we should not tollerate abuse (physical or sexual) of children. These Amish need to be punished just like everyone else and they should pay taxes. I do not care what religion, race, culture, sexual orientation ect... ect... should be excused for abuse of children.

reply to post by Melissa101


Right on! Anyone who abuses their kids, whether it be physical, emotional or sexual, is condemned anyway.

Likewise people who practise brainwashing, commit incest, and generally make everyone's lives miserable.

Whether it be Amish or anyone else, I don't care what they believe - they will have to answer for their behaviour.

Originally posted by Melissa101
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Donnie you are right we should not force any one into any culture. That being said we should not tollerate abuse (physical or sexual) of children. These Amish need to be punished just like everyone else and they should pay taxes. I do not care what religion, race, culture, sexual orientation ect... ect... should be excused for abuse of children.

Absolutely! If they were easier on their kids, and didn't cut down trees, I would have great amount of respect for them. The shunning thing too is excessive.

As someone who was physically abused by my older brother and stepfather growing up, I definitely feel strongly they should be held accountable like anyone else for crimes against children. However I do not think that their lifestyle in general (ie, not having electricity) is child abuse in itself, and if we used that as an excuse to destroy their culture and convert them to mindless Hollywood culture, that would be a travesty.

You might not agree with their methods of child rearing, but I know that Amish people on the whole are the hardest working people in this country, and they always will be. Maybe you were a bad child and deserved to be welted, maybe your "days" were really a few minutes of temper tantrum.

Don't insult an entire people's name because YOU couldn't handle a switching.

well, if this is all true ... KILLLL TYHEMM ALLLL1!@$%¨* well, I am just joking but if this is really all true, something should be done ... what? I dont have a clue ...

well, there are people that thinks if he kills a person and die, he will be in a great lan with a lot of woman ...

but hey ... noone does nothing about it

Culture is ALWAYS such a tricky topic.

It wouldn't surprise me that child abuse is more common in Amish culture than in "English" culture, because they are an old world, medieval society.

While OP has some bigoted opinions about them, he does admit he also admires and likes many Amish people. No generalization is 100% true, but some are 50% true, you have to remember that. Political correctness believes that all generalizations are the polar opposite of the truth, and that's a dangerous POV, because you end up overlooking problems that exist in certain cultures.

At the same time though, you have to remember that ALL cultures are plagued with problems rooted in their culture. The Amish might be way too hard on their kids and not take certain crimes seriously, but we have to look at the splinter in our eye too. Is our consumerist, shallow material Hollywood culture any better than theirs? No, and we should try to teach them the good things about our culture (like valuing children) and listen to the things they can teach us (like working the land and the power of forgiveness).

Originally posted by MadDogtheHunter
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I really don't care about those things you listed, as I have no control over any bit of it, and you know what, most of it doesn't affect me or my family. And until it does....poof, I don't care. I'd rather worry about whats going on in my little region of the world, the stuff that DOES affect me, my family and friends, directly and immediately. (perhaps our government should take a little advice from that...stop worrying about BS in other parts of the world, and pay attention to your own backyard for a change).

If anyone wishes to be a little less lazy, spend a whole 10 minutes scouring the web about this subject, you will find many disturbing things that relate to my experience, among other Amish clans. I already know what I need to know, so I have no need to search the web for others similar stories.

[edit on 7/26/2009 by MadDogtheHunter]

So, you do "have control over" the issue of Amish people living on their own land and do what they want, within the bounds of the law, to their property?

How does what an Amish guy does to the wiring of his house have any effect whatsoever on your life and your family's life? Maybe you should worry about why you have an irrational need to dictate what another person does with the inside of their home. Do you have any grievances with the food they eat or the books they read as well? It's none of your business or concern.

I doubt there is anything that these particular Amish people have done that no other group in the US has done. It seems irrational to generalize personal grievances with this one family to all Amish people everywhere.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by andrewh7]

To my knowledge the Amish are just as subject to the laws as everyone else.
However the grievances mentioned in this thread cannot be addressed by the court system unless charges are brought against them. Amish will not take other Amish to court based on a Scriptural principle found here: 1Cor 6:1-8

However if other, Non Amish, file charges against them, whether it be civil or criminal, they will be required to do what the rest of us do.

Amish do not collect Social Security, unemployment, or welfare benefits.
If the concern is over their paying Social Security taxes then the law needs to be changed.

Tucked away in the 1965 Medicare Bill was a clause exempting the "Old Order Amish" and other religious groups that conscientiously objected to paying insurance premiums from Social Security tax. To be exempt, the group or sect must have been established prior to 1950 and maintain reasonable provisions for their elderly.
To my knowledge this still applies.

Separation of Church and State has interesting consequences.

I agree with you on some level. It is _similar_ with Indigenous people in Australia. They get away with much under the law these days (admittedly though, when European settlers first arrived, it was damn near genocide the way they treated them..), refuse social and educational services in some areas and continue to breed alcoholism and violence in many communities (which I understand when I look at what they have had to endure..).

But despite all of this and what my parents would tell me growing up and horrifying personal accounts that my housemate has been directly involved in, all I have left to say is that not all Indigenous people are like this.
There are those however many that have recognised the past and the disgrace that remains like a stain on the history of Australia and rise above it, go beyond it. They refuse to continue the deathly downward spiral of alcoholism that generations before them were sucked into. They see the real richness and beauty of their ancient culture and live through that rather than use it as an excuse to escape their own responsibilities and grab at more material means from the government as a temporary fix.

Went on a bit of a tangent just then, but my point is, not all white people are psychopaths and blonde bimbos with fake breasts who live for reality TV. Not all Indigenous people are violent alcoholics. I have nil experience with Amish people, but I'm thinking maybe not all Amish people are incestuous child abusers.

I realise your experiences are the main, if not only, thing you have to go by and I respect that. But there is always an alternative.


Many will only see what they want to see.

The Romantics think that they win because they are willing to defend even the indefensible. Lovely.

reply to post by MadDogtheHunter


I'd take the Amish around here as neighbors way before most others. The discipline you mention is what this country needs at home and in the schools. Public schools are falling apart if you haven't noticed. I grew up with the same type discipline with no adverse affects. As for the incest..I'd bet there is less than in the non Amish community.

reply to post by Melissa101


You think the Amish are turning us into a third world country? I always thought it was perhaps...oh I dunno...the English using all our resources like crazy and not caring about sustainable farming, never turning our electronics off when we leave...you know...the wasteful way we live

PS...Look up the amount of trees that the English cut down vs the Amish...also look up how many child beatings go on from the English...

Not saying it's right IF the Amish are doing it...but maybe we should look at ourselves

-Kyo

Originally posted by Aeons
The Romantics think that they win because they are willing to defend even the indefensible. Lovely.

And 99.9% of them defend without proper knowledge or "evidence" learned by their own eyes. If their eyes didn't see it, or their ears didn't hear it, or their senses didn't feel it...then it couldn't have happened, can't be happening, and it can't be true.