I think mutilations are one of the most compelling parts of the question regarding possible aliens. Even if it is just the military doing this, why
and how?
What's the big deal about cows? If it's the military, why don't they just buy some cows from farmers? IMO, it's because it's not the
military.
If it's satanists, where do they get the technology to make such a "clean" and inconspicuous kill? IMO, it's because it's not satanists or
someone using them to make sacrifices.
I don't know if that leaves aliens as the only other possibility but it's quite compelling.
What do skeptics say about mutilations?
Cattle Mutilations Strike In Alabama, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 25-7-2009 @ 05:02 PM by joe82
Colorado is not alone in witnessing the resumption of cattle mutilations. Officials in Alabama say 32 mutilations have occurred since October in two
northeastern counties.
"The cow's udder had been cut off cleaner than you could cut it with a razor. I've been ranching most of my life and I've seen animals that predators hot a hold of. I'd be willing to bet my life it was no predator," said Jimmy Pope, a Geraldine, Ala., rancher whose cow was found in a pasture 500 feet from his house.
"The cow had an oval-shaped cut on her shoulder where skin and hair had been removed, there was no blood nowhere, and the mouth had been cut in an oval shape and the teeth had been removed surgically," he said.
While removal of specific organs in DeKalb and Marshall counties cases is similar to two incidents last November in Costilla and Las Animas counties in southern Colorado, the Alabama cases have produced some new twists.
Tissue samples from one Alabama cow, examined under microscope by Denver pathologist Dr. John Altshuler, showed that the blood around the cut tissue had been "cooked," indicating temperatures of at least 300 degrees had been used to make or cauterize the cuts.
Also, traces of a chemical substance were found at the scene of a mutilation, according to Fyffe, Ala., police Officer Ted Oliphant.
"We found a white substance on a cow's right rib cage and on the ground next to it. I put it into a plastic wrapper, and back at the office, when I touched some of it with the metal tip of my pen, it turned to liquid within one second. I put the rest on a piece of paper. We sent it to a molecular biologist for analysis and found it was composed of aluminum, titanium, oxygen and silicon. This is not a substance that occurs in nature," said Oliphant.
The Alabama mutilations fit the classic patter, officials said.
"It varies from animal to animal, but generally the same things are taken. Sex organs are removed with an oval incision, rectums are cored out, tongues are cut out, jaws stripped to the bone, milk sacs are removed, sometimes a very large incision and internal organs are taken," said Oliphant.
Pope said he was awakened by his barking Labrador retrievers about 3 A.M. but looked outside and saw nothing. His neighbor, 3 miles away, told Pope he had seen a low-flying helicopter late that night. "We've got helicopters in about 90% of these cases, either reported by the farmers themselves on their neighbors," said Oliphant. "They're these light blue with gray bottoms, Bell Jet Rangers with no markings on them.
We don't know whose running these things, but they're pushing their luck. The farmers are driving around with high-powered rifles in their trucks."area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk...
I lived in that part of the state before movining back to east central Al and I have personally seen some very strange things in the sky, even saw a UFO in the daytime.
"The cow's udder had been cut off cleaner than you could cut it with a razor. I've been ranching most of my life and I've seen animals that predators hot a hold of. I'd be willing to bet my life it was no predator," said Jimmy Pope, a Geraldine, Ala., rancher whose cow was found in a pasture 500 feet from his house.
"The cow had an oval-shaped cut on her shoulder where skin and hair had been removed, there was no blood nowhere, and the mouth had been cut in an oval shape and the teeth had been removed surgically," he said.
While removal of specific organs in DeKalb and Marshall counties cases is similar to two incidents last November in Costilla and Las Animas counties in southern Colorado, the Alabama cases have produced some new twists.
Tissue samples from one Alabama cow, examined under microscope by Denver pathologist Dr. John Altshuler, showed that the blood around the cut tissue had been "cooked," indicating temperatures of at least 300 degrees had been used to make or cauterize the cuts.
Also, traces of a chemical substance were found at the scene of a mutilation, according to Fyffe, Ala., police Officer Ted Oliphant.
"We found a white substance on a cow's right rib cage and on the ground next to it. I put it into a plastic wrapper, and back at the office, when I touched some of it with the metal tip of my pen, it turned to liquid within one second. I put the rest on a piece of paper. We sent it to a molecular biologist for analysis and found it was composed of aluminum, titanium, oxygen and silicon. This is not a substance that occurs in nature," said Oliphant.
The Alabama mutilations fit the classic patter, officials said.
"It varies from animal to animal, but generally the same things are taken. Sex organs are removed with an oval incision, rectums are cored out, tongues are cut out, jaws stripped to the bone, milk sacs are removed, sometimes a very large incision and internal organs are taken," said Oliphant.
Pope said he was awakened by his barking Labrador retrievers about 3 A.M. but looked outside and saw nothing. His neighbor, 3 miles away, told Pope he had seen a low-flying helicopter late that night. "We've got helicopters in about 90% of these cases, either reported by the farmers themselves on their neighbors," said Oliphant. "They're these light blue with gray bottoms, Bell Jet Rangers with no markings on them.
We don't know whose running these things, but they're pushing their luck. The farmers are driving around with high-powered rifles in their trucks."area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk...
I lived in that part of the state before movining back to east central Al and I have personally seen some very strange things in the sky, even saw a UFO in the daytime.
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 05:59 PM by Lazyninja
reply to post by nunya13
Cattle mutilations is a really interesting subject for lots of people. The black helicopter element makes people think it's just the military. Though it could be that the black choppers are there investigating ufos, who knows.
Myself I think this is the government doing periodic checkups on the nation's cows, to keep a close eye on how the growth hormones or genetic manipulation are taking, in different parts of the states.
Why not just buy a bunch of cows and test it on them? My guess is that tests on that scale didn't provide sufficient data, and so they just found it easier to "zeta test" this technology. Beta testing being when it's ready, and zeta being the ongoing test period where the public (in this case ranchers) are the unwitting testers.
On the flipside of that, I can't think of why they would still be mutilating cows after all these years. But then I'm not privy to the details of genetic and biological manipulation of cows to increase their size and growing speed. There could be all kinds of unforseen problems, which means that the situation is in need of constant monitoring and fine tuning.
Here's something plausible I hadn't considered, from the wikipedia article on mutilations:
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Lazyninja]
I think mutilations are one of the most compelling parts of the question regarding possible aliens. Even if it is just the military doing this, why and how?
What's the big deal about cows? If it's the military, why don't they just buy some cows from farmers? IMO, it's because it's not the military.
Cattle mutilations is a really interesting subject for lots of people. The black helicopter element makes people think it's just the military. Though it could be that the black choppers are there investigating ufos, who knows.
Myself I think this is the government doing periodic checkups on the nation's cows, to keep a close eye on how the growth hormones or genetic manipulation are taking, in different parts of the states.
Why not just buy a bunch of cows and test it on them? My guess is that tests on that scale didn't provide sufficient data, and so they just found it easier to "zeta test" this technology. Beta testing being when it's ready, and zeta being the ongoing test period where the public (in this case ranchers) are the unwitting testers.
On the flipside of that, I can't think of why they would still be mutilating cows after all these years. But then I'm not privy to the details of genetic and biological manipulation of cows to increase their size and growing speed. There could be all kinds of unforseen problems, which means that the situation is in need of constant monitoring and fine tuning.
Here's something plausible I hadn't considered, from the wikipedia article on mutilations:
Biochemist Colm Kelleher,[29] who has investigated several purported mutilations first-hand, argues that the mutilations are most likely a clandestine U.S. Government effort to track the spread of Bovine spongiform encephalopathy ("mad cow disease") and related diseases, such as scrapie.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Lazyninja]
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 06:01 PM by joe82
reply to post by nunya13
What do skeptics say about mutilations?
They say what typical skeptics say, They never really listen to the facts and say stupid stuff like, it was teenagers or other animals.
What do skeptics say about mutilations?
They say what typical skeptics say, They never really listen to the facts and say stupid stuff like, it was teenagers or other animals.
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 09:14 PM by Sam60
Originally posted by joe82
reply to post by nunya13
What do skeptics say about mutilations?
They say what typical skeptics say, They never really listen to the facts and say stupid stuff like, it was teenagers or other animals.
I guess you could classify me as more skeptical than not.
I don't have a clue what to say about cattle mutilations.
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 09:35 PM by Oscitate
Originally posted by joe82
reply to post by nunya13
What do skeptics say about mutilations?
They say what typical skeptics say, They never really listen to the facts and say stupid stuff like, it was teenagers or other animals.
I suppose I'd fall under the category of a skeptic, simply because I don't feel like jumping to conclusions. I have no wish to make this personal Nunya13, but you claim we do not listen to the "facts", I would be curious to know what these "facts" dictate in this case?
According to the FBI:
The material concerning the Animal Mutilation Project contains accounts of animal mutilations which were reported during the late 1970's. The FBI became involved when fifteen mutilations occurred in New Mexico. Various theories concerning the origins of the mutilations were explored by the FBI, including satanic cults, UFOs, pranksters, and natural predators. The investigation failed to identify any individuals responsible for the mutilations.
source
The results are undecipherable. Which, is about as precise as we can be behind our computers unless you have something in the way of experience and evidence, is about as far as we can go in postulating.
Now, I have nothing against hypothetical discussion, we are in a UFO forum after all, and personally, due to the surgical nature of these events over time, I find interesting. But to make broad statements about a faction which exists only within your own mind is too easy. There is no us and them here. There is only opinion.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Oscitate]
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 09:48 PM by Sam60
reply to post by Oscitate
Just thinking about this subject again....
There seems to be strong suggestion by some that the organs & tissue samples are removed by a medical laser.
Those things aren't cheap. Low powered lasers start at around the $60K mark. It's easy to spend more than $250K on one. You also need different power ratings / wavelengths for different tissue, plus a stable power supply. The curved, "scooping" effect is also not straightforward to achieve with a laser.
I think there are a lot of problems with the laser idea.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sam60]
Just thinking about this subject again....
There seems to be strong suggestion by some that the organs & tissue samples are removed by a medical laser.
Those things aren't cheap. Low powered lasers start at around the $60K mark. It's easy to spend more than $250K on one. You also need different power ratings / wavelengths for different tissue, plus a stable power supply. The curved, "scooping" effect is also not straightforward to achieve with a laser.
I think there are a lot of problems with the laser idea.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sam60]
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 10:46 PM by stanlee
Originally posted by Sam60
reply to post by Oscitate
Just thinking about this subject again....
There seems to be strong suggestion by some that the organs & tissue samples are removed by a medical laser.
Those things aren't cheap. Low powered lasers start at around the $60K mark. It's easy to spend more than $250K on one. You also need different power ratings / wavelengths for different tissue, plus a stable power supply. The curved, "scooping" effect is also not straightforward to achieve with a laser.
I think there are a lot of problems with the laser idea.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sam60]
I have to agree there are alot of problems with that as well considering the size of the apparatus. Everyone thinks its just a pen sized little thing. Nevermind the room its hooked up to. First. They are not exactly mobile. Secondly these doctors would have to master the art of levitation as there are no tracks. then they would have to be in suits to hide their natural scent as dogs dont even pick them up. Then on a tertiary note, where are they putting all the blood? there is not a drop on the ground, nor is there any blood in the remianing beast carcass. Fourth, no struggle. Ok.. perhapse these mystery doctors tranq the beasts first. What of the other cattle, the ones that are around... why do they not make a sound either? fifth, if it were predators.... Predator theory does not work. The predators that attack these tear the flesh apart. what remains is left to other carrion eaters, and flies and what not. Why do no predators even go near the fallen beasts? There are no foot prints of any kind. No sounds.. nothing remotely indicative of struggle or unwelcomed presence. Toxicology states there is no cause of death even. its as if they just keel over dead.
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 10:56 PM by napayshni57
reply to post by TheRedneck
I have a question about the ufo activity in the area. I've only been in Alabama 3 years and have seen some strange things in those 3 years. I found a site that has ufo sightings by people. Not a well known site but one thing I did notice is that the sightings seem to appear more in Alabama around the foothills and mountians.
Do you think the mountain range and foothills have anything to do with the sightings?
Also do you think the sightings have increased in this area in the last few years?
Or could the depot in Anniston have anything to do with it. I believe thats the place where they dispose of chemical weapons and outdated munitions. Anyway thats what I'm told they do out there.
From the limited responses on the link I'll post it seems the sightings are either up in Jacksonville or people from the jacksonville area use the same search engine I do and respond.
myufo.com...
I have a question about the ufo activity in the area. I've only been in Alabama 3 years and have seen some strange things in those 3 years. I found a site that has ufo sightings by people. Not a well known site but one thing I did notice is that the sightings seem to appear more in Alabama around the foothills and mountians.
Do you think the mountain range and foothills have anything to do with the sightings?
Also do you think the sightings have increased in this area in the last few years?
Or could the depot in Anniston have anything to do with it. I believe thats the place where they dispose of chemical weapons and outdated munitions. Anyway thats what I'm told they do out there.
From the limited responses on the link I'll post it seems the sightings are either up in Jacksonville or people from the jacksonville area use the same search engine I do and respond.
myufo.com...
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 11:13 PM by TheRedneck
reply to post by napayshni57
Fyffe sits atop Sand Mountain, not in the foothills area. There are some gorges and such nearby (Buck's Pocket, a local attraction based on rugged terrain is close), but that is actually pretty common in this area. It is definitely not restricted to Fyffe. The town itself is little more than a wide spot in the road between Rainsville and Albertville. The mutilations are in the farms around it.
You're right about the Anniston Depot being used to dispose of chemical/biological weapons (there is a rumor they have a close connection with the CDC in Atlanta), but Anniston is not really that close to Fyffe.
As for the frequency of the sightings, I really don't know. I am of a firm belief that we are not being visited by aliens (if for no other reason than we're the ghetto of the galaxy). So I really don't pay tremendous attention to the number of sightings.
It's just a sleepy little one-horse town with a couple of stores and a small assemblage of homes packed together surrounded by farmland, but it is definitely the weird stuff capital of the area.
TheRedneck
[edit on 7/25/2009 by TheRedneck]
Fyffe sits atop Sand Mountain, not in the foothills area. There are some gorges and such nearby (Buck's Pocket, a local attraction based on rugged terrain is close), but that is actually pretty common in this area. It is definitely not restricted to Fyffe. The town itself is little more than a wide spot in the road between Rainsville and Albertville. The mutilations are in the farms around it.
You're right about the Anniston Depot being used to dispose of chemical/biological weapons (there is a rumor they have a close connection with the CDC in Atlanta), but Anniston is not really that close to Fyffe.
As for the frequency of the sightings, I really don't know. I am of a firm belief that we are not being visited by aliens (if for no other reason than we're the ghetto of the galaxy). So I really don't pay tremendous attention to the number of sightings.
It's just a sleepy little one-horse town with a couple of stores and a small assemblage of homes packed together surrounded by farmland, but it is definitely the weird stuff capital of the area.
TheRedneck
[edit on 7/25/2009 by TheRedneck]
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 11:19 PM by amyfriend
reply to post by azureskys
yes,,that also adds to the mystery,,,
it doesnt appear in the least they try and hide what their doing....
VERY WEIRD...
huggs,,,
yes,,that also adds to the mystery,,,
it doesnt appear in the least they try and hide what their doing....
VERY WEIRD...
huggs,,,
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 11:37 PM by napayshni57
reply to post by TheRedneck
I was just wondering but the parts taken from the cattle would they be parts of the animal where chemicals or something would have the most concentration in the animal?
As you said by road Anniston is a bit aways from Sand Mountain about an hour 20 minutes but by air not that far.
Makes me wonder if there is a connection between the depot and the mutilations. I have to wonder when I'm told it's safe the way they dispose of these chemicals and such because they use special filters. Perhaps they go after animals to see what they are doing to them and just how far away they are effected.
I was just wondering but the parts taken from the cattle would they be parts of the animal where chemicals or something would have the most concentration in the animal?
As you said by road Anniston is a bit aways from Sand Mountain about an hour 20 minutes but by air not that far.
Makes me wonder if there is a connection between the depot and the mutilations. I have to wonder when I'm told it's safe the way they dispose of these chemicals and such because they use special filters. Perhaps they go after animals to see what they are doing to them and just how far away they are effected.
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 11:58 PM by Sam60
Originally posted by stanlee
Originally posted by Sam60
reply to post by Oscitate
Just thinking about this subject again....
There seems to be strong suggestion by some that the organs & tissue samples are removed by a medical laser.
Those things aren't cheap. Low powered lasers start at around the $60K mark. It's easy to spend more than $250K on one. You also need different power ratings / wavelengths for different tissue, plus a stable power supply. The curved, "scooping" effect is also not straightforward to achieve with a laser.
I think there are a lot of problems with the laser idea.
[edit on 25-7-2009 by Sam60]
I have to agree there are alot of problems with that as well considering the size of the apparatus. Everyone thinks its just a pen sized little thing. Nevermind the room its hooked up to. First. They are not exactly mobile. Secondly these doctors would have to master the art of levitation as there are no tracks. then they would have to be in suits to hide their natural scent as dogs dont even pick them up. Then on a tertiary note, where are they putting all the blood? there is not a drop on the ground, nor is there any blood in the remianing beast carcass. Fourth, no struggle. Ok.. perhapse these mystery doctors tranq the beasts first. What of the other cattle, the ones that are around... why do they not make a sound either? fifth, if it were predators.... Predator theory does not work. The predators that attack these tear the flesh apart. what remains is left to other carrion eaters, and flies and what not. Why do no predators even go near the fallen beasts? There are no foot prints of any kind. No sounds.. nothing remotely indicative of struggle or unwelcomed presence. Toxicology states there is no cause of death even. its as if they just keel over dead.
All those things could be achieved with the right equipment.
However the equipment would all be very expensive, complex & difficult to use.
Also, none of that equipment is designed for that sort of field use.
It's a "way out there" topic.
reply posted on 26-7-2009 @ 01:34 AM by Melissa101
reply to post by napayshni57
I think you are on to something. The gov't has the ability to train people to hover over and skimmy down and take samples. They would leave behind the carcase to feed the alien scare IMO. Because the CIA is behind the manifestations and feeding of the alien buzz. It would serve two purposes one to feed the alien theories and second to test to see how the chemicals are affecting the animals (hence the people)and in what radias the effects cover. Also peiodicly testing for mad cow in variouse places across the nation would be more beneficial than just in two contolled areas. I wonder if there are any dump sites in the Colorado area? I am sure the gov't is behind this not aliens...
I think you are on to something. The gov't has the ability to train people to hover over and skimmy down and take samples. They would leave behind the carcase to feed the alien scare IMO. Because the CIA is behind the manifestations and feeding of the alien buzz. It would serve two purposes one to feed the alien theories and second to test to see how the chemicals are affecting the animals (hence the people)and in what radias the effects cover. Also peiodicly testing for mad cow in variouse places across the nation would be more beneficial than just in two contolled areas. I wonder if there are any dump sites in the Colorado area? I am sure the gov't is behind this not aliens...
The Edge of Reality - Updated Report on the Illinois Police UFO case, January 5th, 2000.
Posted 1 days ago with 23 member flags
Posted 1 days ago with 23 member flags
Famous Argentinean painter observed UFO studying parabolic antennas
Posted 16 days ago with 21 member flags
Posted 16 days ago with 21 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
ESA's Mars Express radar gives strong evidence for former Mars ocean
Space Exploration, Posted 11 minutes ago
Space Exploration, Posted 11 minutes ago
Breaking: Obama Invokes NDAA Declaring Threat From Iran A National Emergency
World War Three, Posted 23 minutes ago
World War Three, Posted 23 minutes ago
George Wshington's vision, prophecy and encounter with God.
Religion, Faith, And Theology, Posted 29 minutes ago
Religion, Faith, And Theology, Posted 29 minutes ago
You're cooking your significant other a Valentines Dinner.... Whats on the menu?
Food and Cooking, Posted 37 minutes ago
Food and Cooking, Posted 37 minutes ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
The Girl Killed by Obama: She "never saw it coming"
US Political Madness, Posted 14 hours ago, 29 flags
US Political Madness, Posted 14 hours ago, 29 flags
Dumb As A Rock: You Will Be Absolutely Amazed At The Things That U.S. High School Students Do Not Kn
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 17 hours ago, 26 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 17 hours ago, 26 flags
Ron Paul surging nationally up FIVE pts to 22% in second after Romney
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 25 flags
2012 US Elections, Posted 15 hours ago, 25 flags
FBI Warns That Americans Are Now A Threat To America
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 14 hours ago, 18 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 14 hours ago, 18 flags
Proponents of Gold Standard May Be Violent Extremists; Report ALL Suspicious Activity To the FBI
Global Meltdown, Posted 8 hours ago, 16 flags
Global Meltdown, Posted 8 hours ago, 16 flags
Shouting Cameras Bark Orders At Residents To Leave Their Own Property
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 15 hours ago, 11 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 15 hours ago, 11 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
Dumb As A Rock: You Will Be Absolutely Amazed At The Things That U.S. High School Students Do Not Kn
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 17 hours ago, 223 replies
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 17 hours ago, 223 replies
The Girl Killed by Obama: She "never saw it coming"
US Political Madness, Posted 14 hours ago, 47 replies
US Political Madness, Posted 14 hours ago, 47 replies
Metal Boxes Wash Ashore After UFO Sitings In Oregon
Aliens and UFOs, Posted 15 hours ago, 35 replies
Aliens and UFOs, Posted 15 hours ago, 35 replies
NATO, G8 In Chicago: Adbusters Puts Out Call For 50,000 To Protest Summit
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 12 hours ago, 31 replies
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 12 hours ago, 31 replies
U.S. military beginning review of Syria options
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 14 hours ago, 28 replies
Breaking Alternative News, Posted 14 hours ago, 28 replies
FBI Warns That Americans Are Now A Threat To America
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 14 hours ago, 28 replies
Social Issues and Civil Unrest, Posted 14 hours ago, 28 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.284 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www3.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.284 seconds
