Perhaps we could give it a try.. ?
So if you could allow me to facilitate..
May I please speak to the voice of deep caring?
When you answer, you are not the self, to whom you would refer to in the third party either by name or as he/she, but, as the voice of caring, you do
speak as "I".
First you announce who you are, so I'll just offer this by way of example.
Facilitator:
To whom am I speaking?
I am the voice of, deep caring.
Facilitator:
Hello. Tell me about yourself, what do you do?
I care deeply.
Facilitator: Tell me about that, about why you care deeply and what it is you care deeply about..
[this would be addressed to someone for whom deep caring does not come easily, to the person who likes to remain calm cool and collected, and who
generally pretends that they do NOT care ie: they've disowned the voice of deep caring to a degree, or, they suffer from too MUCH caring, which can
be addressed once we allow this voice to have it's full say regarding it's purpose as the voice of deep caring]
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
Big Mind - Big Heart, Voice Dialogue Therapy, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 1-7-2009 @ 02:12 AM by OmegaPoint
I just finished attending a two day seminar for the Big Mind process with Genpo Roshi
www.bigmind.org...
The Book
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246431472&sr=8-1
In a nutshell, he invites people to speak from the viewpoint of disowned voices, by simply asking them - could I please speak to the voice of "fear", etc. referring the self in the third person, and then making an inquiry into what that the purpose is of that otherwise disowned voice, how it wants to serve the self, and how it feels about being disowned, and what it would do if allowed to come out and be part of the person. Then an inquiry is made regarding the nature of that voice once it has matured to it's highest expression.
We explored the voice of the assshole, the voice of the sexual pervert, the voice of I don't give a shiit, the voice of the fool, the controller, the seeking grasping mind, etc.
There would also be an exploration of the voice of two dual aspects, and then we looked at the voice from the apex in a symbolic triangle, which contains and integrates both sides.
This process then serves to loosen the attachments to self, while integrating disowned parts, until at the end of the process, the invitation is extended to "Big Mind" and "Big Heart", to "non-seeking, non-grasping mind", at which point many people starting speaking as if they're Zen Masters.
It seemed to be to constitute a very effective and powerful form of therapy, combined the best of Jungian and Gestalt Western Psychology, with Eastern Buddhist traditions.
They have now removed any Facilitator Certification, so anyone can do it, provided they do not advertise what they're doing as "Big Mind - Big Heart" while adding a reference to it, as in "utilizing the Big Mind, Big Heart process".
I've done NLP programs, Landmark, and have devoted a LOT of time and effort to seeking out a methodology, to help myself, and others, break free of the bondage of attachment to outmoded viewpoints and negative patterns, and this was by far the simplest and the most powerful and profound process I've yet run across in my twelve plus years of active seeking.
It was quite breathtaking in it's utter simplicity, speed (it's really instantaneous) and effectiveness (via shifting viewpoints and frames of reference, relative to the 'self'), and produced significant and sudden experiencial insights of the type which would otherwise take many years, of therapy, or meditation practice.
I highly recommend it.
Regards,
OP
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
www.bigmind.org...
The Book
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246431472&sr=8-1
In a nutshell, he invites people to speak from the viewpoint of disowned voices, by simply asking them - could I please speak to the voice of "fear", etc. referring the self in the third person, and then making an inquiry into what that the purpose is of that otherwise disowned voice, how it wants to serve the self, and how it feels about being disowned, and what it would do if allowed to come out and be part of the person. Then an inquiry is made regarding the nature of that voice once it has matured to it's highest expression.
We explored the voice of the assshole, the voice of the sexual pervert, the voice of I don't give a shiit, the voice of the fool, the controller, the seeking grasping mind, etc.
There would also be an exploration of the voice of two dual aspects, and then we looked at the voice from the apex in a symbolic triangle, which contains and integrates both sides.
This process then serves to loosen the attachments to self, while integrating disowned parts, until at the end of the process, the invitation is extended to "Big Mind" and "Big Heart", to "non-seeking, non-grasping mind", at which point many people starting speaking as if they're Zen Masters.
It seemed to be to constitute a very effective and powerful form of therapy, combined the best of Jungian and Gestalt Western Psychology, with Eastern Buddhist traditions.
They have now removed any Facilitator Certification, so anyone can do it, provided they do not advertise what they're doing as "Big Mind - Big Heart" while adding a reference to it, as in "utilizing the Big Mind, Big Heart process".
I've done NLP programs, Landmark, and have devoted a LOT of time and effort to seeking out a methodology, to help myself, and others, break free of the bondage of attachment to outmoded viewpoints and negative patterns, and this was by far the simplest and the most powerful and profound process I've yet run across in my twelve plus years of active seeking.
It was quite breathtaking in it's utter simplicity, speed (it's really instantaneous) and effectiveness (via shifting viewpoints and frames of reference, relative to the 'self'), and produced significant and sudden experiencial insights of the type which would otherwise take many years, of therapy, or meditation practice.
I highly recommend it.
Regards,
OP
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 02:33 AM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
What things do you mean, and who are you referring to as "them"? (spoken with the gentle, unconditionally supportive and understanding voice of the facilitator)
Have some of these "things" been disowned, and locked away in the basement?
Can you tell me which part is the most upset about being shunned like that?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
What things do you mean, and who are you referring to as "them"? (spoken with the gentle, unconditionally supportive and understanding voice of the facilitator)
Have some of these "things" been disowned, and locked away in the basement?
Can you tell me which part is the most upset about being shunned like that?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 02:39 AM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
Can I please ask to whom (which part) it is that I am speaking?
(please play along with me here, and let me try facilitating..)
Sounds to me like I'm already speaking to Big Mind, or is it Big Heart?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
Can I please ask to whom (which part) it is that I am speaking?
(please play along with me here, and let me try facilitating..)
Sounds to me like I'm already speaking to Big Mind, or is it Big Heart?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 02:47 AM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
Ahh, so you are Big Heart then. Tell me, when you look within, is there anything missing? And do you have any concerns at all?
P.S.: Your response just evoked, instantly, Big Heart in me! Thank you!
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
Ahh, so you are Big Heart then. Tell me, when you look within, is there anything missing? And do you have any concerns at all?
P.S.: Your response just evoked, instantly, Big Heart in me! Thank you!
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 12:44 PM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
May I please speak now to the disowned voice of the fear of abandonment and separation?
If allowed to come out of the basement and fully mature, what do you think you could offer and contribute to Big Heart?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
May I please speak now to the disowned voice of the fear of abandonment and separation?
If allowed to come out of the basement and fully mature, what do you think you could offer and contribute to Big Heart?
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 11:31 PM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
So you're saying that everything is still one then, and that all separation is an illusion born of what may have begun as nothing more than mere contrast between what is and what is not, or is not yet, and between who and what 'I am' and who and what 'I am not', but that in truth, there is no duality..?
That IS what the apex of Big Mind WOULD say..!
What then would be the implication of this for any part that has been disowned, or which doesn't think of itself as a part of or as separated from?
And what, precisely, in your opinion, as the apex of Big Mind, must be reconciled, such that Big Heart need no longer suffer, or fear or be concerned for? (please don't try to think here from your 'self' by try as much as possible to keep flowing with this, as if you really are speaking from Big Mind and Big Heart, or even the apex of one, the other, and both).
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
So you're saying that everything is still one then, and that all separation is an illusion born of what may have begun as nothing more than mere contrast between what is and what is not, or is not yet, and between who and what 'I am' and who and what 'I am not', but that in truth, there is no duality..?
That IS what the apex of Big Mind WOULD say..!
What then would be the implication of this for any part that has been disowned, or which doesn't think of itself as a part of or as separated from?
And what, precisely, in your opinion, as the apex of Big Mind, must be reconciled, such that Big Heart need no longer suffer, or fear or be concerned for? (please don't try to think here from your 'self' by try as much as possible to keep flowing with this, as if you really are speaking from Big Mind and Big Heart, or even the apex of one, the other, and both).
[edit on 1-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 11:40 PM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by tribewilder
Is it just me, or did you notice the slight shift in tone from Ansiroth's projection of Big Heart (feeling) to Big Mind (metaphysics and philosophy).
And both appear to be expressing a certain angst or existential concern, of the most profound nature.
I do hope this Dialogue may continue..
Is it just me, or did you notice the slight shift in tone from Ansiroth's projection of Big Heart (feeling) to Big Mind (metaphysics and philosophy).
And both appear to be expressing a certain angst or existential concern, of the most profound nature.
I do hope this Dialogue may continue..
reply posted on 1-7-2009 @ 11:58 PM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
But if it continues endlessly within you, how can it continue without you? Surely, as the all in all, you are the ONE THING it must always include..? Can any part be left out, including the whole of all the parts that you are as Big Mind?
And if I might, I would like to ask you this, as the voice of BOTH Big Mind AND Big Heart - why is there something and not nothing? Why are we here? What is the purpose, the value and the meaning of life?
But if it continues endlessly within you, how can it continue without you? Surely, as the all in all, you are the ONE THING it must always include..? Can any part be left out, including the whole of all the parts that you are as Big Mind?
And if I might, I would like to ask you this, as the voice of BOTH Big Mind AND Big Heart - why is there something and not nothing? Why are we here? What is the purpose, the value and the meaning of life?
reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 12:05 AM by Ansiroth
reply to post by OmegaPoint
Here lies an important question. Meaning signifies conclusion, the meaning of something is the essence of its conclusion, its closure, its point, its purpose. Life is not a purpose not a conclusion, the ultimate goal of life and existence is to continue. It to say in sorts that life is meaningless, because life and existence-wich are not seperate, do not seek to conclude and therefor take meaning. They are ment to continue and change into infinite.
And if I might, I would like to ask you this, as the voice of BOTH Big Mind AND Big Heart - why is there something and not nothing? Why are we here? What is the purpose, the value and the meaning of life?
Here lies an important question. Meaning signifies conclusion, the meaning of something is the essence of its conclusion, its closure, its point, its purpose. Life is not a purpose not a conclusion, the ultimate goal of life and existence is to continue. It to say in sorts that life is meaningless, because life and existence-wich are not seperate, do not seek to conclude and therefor take meaning. They are ment to continue and change into infinite.
reply posted on 2-7-2009 @ 12:21 AM by OmegaPoint
reply to post by Ansiroth
Hmm, so while it is said that all things must begin with the end in mind, you're saying that the beginning of everything began with endlessness in mind, so that the continuation of Godself-conscious-awareness may continue to explore every facet of itself, unto infinity..?
But if something has no end, then neighther can it have any beginning, and therefore, since we are here now, we are emersed, as an integral part, every part of us, and all parts are there (although some may be disowned or locked up down in the basement of our conscious/unconsciousness), of something aka life-existence, which is by it's very nature and intentionality, infinite, and so at the most fundamental level then, we always were, always will be, and are eternally now, in this eternally unfolding present moment, right here now, the end of time..
That is "omegapoint", the end of the end of all beginnings, and the beginning of a new one, forever - the realization of that truth, in the present moment of now aka entrypoint into the kingdom of heaven, or the realm or domain, of eternal life, realized, actualized, and the birth of God-consciousness also, which we are just beginning to grasp/accept, as some sort of endlessly recurrent and self-referencial transcendent awareness, and one which has reached the end of it's seeking ie: the non-seeking, non-grasping, non-effortful Buddha-mind/Christ-mind aka the Big Mind, and have entered into the experience and the knowing of simple beingness, with absolute compassion for one and all.
From what you just said, perhaps the Landmark Forum people are correct to say that "Life is empty and meaningless - and it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless"
in other words, that the greatest gift of creation, is the freedom to assign whatever meaning we like as we go, or, to avoid distinction, differentiation and therefore separation, assigning it no meaning at all! (Zen Buddhism)
Right View - Buddha (second of the four noble truths)
= No View.
It is best to be open to everything, and closed to nothing, since it is entirely in the realm of conceivable, that we contain it all and are in truth, everything as part of everything, in the sense that a drop of water taken from an endless sea, is not separate from the sea.
Language therefore, may be both man's greatest tool, and his greatest curse.. like a knife which cuts us and everyone else and the world around us, into pieces, and therefore separation - but that said, what is differentiated, is again, reintegrated at a higher level - this may be considered imho, the "logos" or "the word" of all creation - a continual process of differentiation and reintegration, at this stage in the game of evolutionary growth, involving none other than the next phase in the evolution of our conscious awareness, from individual and separate, to whole, and God-like, rejecting nothing, and rendering love and compassion as the highest healing principal.
[edit on 2-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
Hmm, so while it is said that all things must begin with the end in mind, you're saying that the beginning of everything began with endlessness in mind, so that the continuation of Godself-conscious-awareness may continue to explore every facet of itself, unto infinity..?
But if something has no end, then neighther can it have any beginning, and therefore, since we are here now, we are emersed, as an integral part, every part of us, and all parts are there (although some may be disowned or locked up down in the basement of our conscious/unconsciousness), of something aka life-existence, which is by it's very nature and intentionality, infinite, and so at the most fundamental level then, we always were, always will be, and are eternally now, in this eternally unfolding present moment, right here now, the end of time..
That is "omegapoint", the end of the end of all beginnings, and the beginning of a new one, forever - the realization of that truth, in the present moment of now aka entrypoint into the kingdom of heaven, or the realm or domain, of eternal life, realized, actualized, and the birth of God-consciousness also, which we are just beginning to grasp/accept, as some sort of endlessly recurrent and self-referencial transcendent awareness, and one which has reached the end of it's seeking ie: the non-seeking, non-grasping, non-effortful Buddha-mind/Christ-mind aka the Big Mind, and have entered into the experience and the knowing of simple beingness, with absolute compassion for one and all.
From what you just said, perhaps the Landmark Forum people are correct to say that "Life is empty and meaningless - and it's empty and meaningless that it's empty and meaningless"
in other words, that the greatest gift of creation, is the freedom to assign whatever meaning we like as we go, or, to avoid distinction, differentiation and therefore separation, assigning it no meaning at all! (Zen Buddhism)
Right View - Buddha (second of the four noble truths)
= No View.
It is best to be open to everything, and closed to nothing, since it is entirely in the realm of conceivable, that we contain it all and are in truth, everything as part of everything, in the sense that a drop of water taken from an endless sea, is not separate from the sea.
Language therefore, may be both man's greatest tool, and his greatest curse.. like a knife which cuts us and everyone else and the world around us, into pieces, and therefore separation - but that said, what is differentiated, is again, reintegrated at a higher level - this may be considered imho, the "logos" or "the word" of all creation - a continual process of differentiation and reintegration, at this stage in the game of evolutionary growth, involving none other than the next phase in the evolution of our conscious awareness, from individual and separate, to whole, and God-like, rejecting nothing, and rendering love and compassion as the highest healing principal.
[edit on 2-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]
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