Originally posted by Divinorumus
Is it any wonder why there are so many (so-called) terrorists that want to kill us all? Our own government is going to get us all killed if they continue all this interference within all these other nations. I'm surprised we haven't been nuked yet, but I suppose it's just a matter of time. Who would have believed our greatest threat would be our own government!

If you mean by our government the American government, destroying America will not stop what is happening. America is a puppet of other countries.

To be honest, I would HOPE that the CIA is somewhat involved in these matters, especially if worse comes to worse, and the opposition ends up needing arms in order to continue their movement.

The CIA does not generally begin or create entire movements such as what we are currently witnessing in Iran (Look at their History), but they have been known to take full advantage of such opportunities. It serves the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad right as well, seeing as they initiated/took part in the first "Revolution" which overthrew the Shah (An American/Western ally), so they have most certainly had a scenario such as this coming right back at them for quite some time now.

I would hope that for once, some here on ATS would finally agree that if the CIA assists those seeking the furtherance of their liberties in Iran, that it is a good thing rather than a bad thing.

Originally posted by heyo

awww, the poor heroin manufacturers. I mean it's sad, cause we all know that the poor ignorant Afghanistanis have no idea what they do. How could they, they're.....from the middle east, which means....what?

I don't for one second believe these guys don't know what heroin does. The taliban would kill these guys for not selling to them? Sounds like the cia should be ashamed!! How dare they cut heroin production AND cut into the taliban's finances!!!

The day they can grow heroin to feed their families is the day we can steal or sell drugs to feed ours. It's the same morally....the thing about dirt is it doesn't care what plants are grown on it, yet somehow it HAS to be heroin and it's not their fault? right.

Opium growing and Heroin production are a multi-billion dollar industry where profits are enormous. But don't mistakenly believe that everyone involved is getting rich on it at all levels.

There is a long chain through many countries, and many middle men, before the finished product reaches the end user. Those benefiting least are the people actually growing the plants at source.

Thousands of Afghanis probably receive, let's say, $5 a day for working the fields, planting, harvesting, etc. Their alternative might be growing a staple food crop. Given the primitiveness of tools, the inhospitable environment,
the unreliability of climate, one might only be able to eke out, say, $2 a day. And that's with ideal conditions.

And maybe it costs $4 a day to survive and feed a family. So should the uneducated disadvantaged rural Afghanis opt out and grow millets to appease a Western sensibility of correctness?

Lack of education and dire poverty give most of the world fewer options.

Mike

Originally posted by eradown

Originally posted by Divinorumus
Is it any wonder why there are so many (so-called) terrorists that want to kill us all? Our own government is going to get us all killed if they continue all this interference within all these other nations. I'm surprised we haven't been nuked yet, but I suppose it's just a matter of time. Who would have believed our greatest threat would be our own government!

If you mean by our government the American government, destroying America will not stop what is happening. America is a puppet of other countries.

I find it laughable at best that someone can believe by the United States adopting a policy of Isolationism, that somehow there will no longer be "Terroristic" feelings propagating towards us. We attempted Isolationism for a VERY long time, and in the end, it bit us in the rear 68 years ago.

We need to help the reformists in Iran, because if we truly believe in Liberty, and the people there are calling for it, then we owe it to the very principle of such that we in fact aide them in achieving it.

Who else is gonna do the dirty work? The liberals would see us limp into the woods to die a slow death than do what needs to be done. Christians and conservatives whether you believe it or not have too many moral hangups about "sinning" and what not. I believe the CIA knows what they are doing when they do things like interrupting drug trafficking in the Middle East and so what if they influence democracy in a land where human rights are pissed on by Muslim xenophobes. You ignorant whiners have no idea what you got, you wouldn't be able to have this kind of neutrality and tolerance over there, over there your either a xenophobe or an outcast, they need a revolution, they need a lesson on tolerance.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
I find it laughable at best that someone can believe by the United States adopting a policy of Isolationism, that somehow there will no longer be "Terroristic" feelings propagating towards us.

My neighbor doesn't want to kill me, because I'm not offering $400 million dollars to their kids to trash their home. Proof that minding ones own business works!

And the neocons would have us break ourselves trying to police and control the whole world, until our whole economy bursts and we have an elite minority here which controls 90% of the worlds capital lording it over the rest of the serfs on whose backs the capital was made.

What i cant understand is how the people on here advocating us getting involved in Iran completely fail to see that they have been led to the cause of the PTB's choice. They could be just as incensed at the massacres in djibouti, or rwanda, or any other choice of places, saudi arabia, what have you. But no, the news and the lords say "these are the ones you must hate because they have something we want" and all the people just fall in line. If you want to have a cause, PICK YOUR OWN, dont let the news spell it out for you, for then you are not serving a cause, you're serving your Corporate dictators.

Originally posted by Sheeper
Seriously!!! And that analogy is retarded, is your neighbor a threat to the well being of the neighborhood, do they want to nuke that Jewish family across the street, do they force their daughter to show complete submission to the men, do they use an iron fist to force religion on their children and cause havoc around the neighborhood if you don't also submit? Oh but there xenophobia is all your fault to begin with, right, their ignorance is all the neighbors faults as well. Lets all be tolerant of their intolerance.

Careful with the generalizations there my friend. Divi was only trying to point out that when you get involved and stick your nose into almost every matter then things only get worse, for everybody. Look I'm pro America as much as the next person, but in my opinion America has become and is now one of the most xenophobic nations in history, if not the most. Of course this certainly does not apply to everybody there, but from my personal experience and having many relatives who still live in the U.S; this is a fact. Also, here on ATS Ive become familiar with some of the more extreme American mindsets, the fact that almost everyday you get a thread about impending doom or enemies plotting against America or the next "attack", etc; is proof of my point.

Regards,

Originally posted by Blaine91555
If the CIA is helping a people free themselves; good for them. Where do I send a check.

Say, maybe they can help free us from our socialist dictator(s), lol. I don't want to be told I must worship capitalism that depends upon the rape of the Earth. I don't even want to worship the IRS (and hey, when are they going to apologize for enslaving us?).

There is just too darn much meddling and manipulation of our lives going on in this world. Imagine a world without government dictating social agendas to us, a government that does nothing on their own but take their marching orders from US, WE the PEOPLE.

If the Iranian people have decided they have had enough with their overlords, they will rise up and deal with their situation all on their own. The same here. Or, would you like China or Russia to come in and start stirring up trouble inside our borders and fences? I know I would appreciate LESS government intrusion into MY life. Should I welcome help from the Russians to overthrow our government? They sure know about the pitfalls of socialism and could be of great help right now, ha. And, suppose the CIA fails in their meddling, what sort of repercussions can we expect from the Iranian dictators? And, how will our government respond? More homeland security, tracking every persons actions and questioning your every word?

I feel like this is disinformation for the purpose of discrediting the protesters. But this is just a "feeling."

Originally posted by Blaine91555
If the CIA is helping a people free themselves; good for them. Where do I send a check.

If you paid taxes, you've already contributed. For those who don't pay taxes, you could try to write a check to the CIA, but they probably would return it along with a nice thank you note.

Mousavi is to the left of Ahmadinejad. Mousavi has already worked with/helped out the US in the 1980's. Mousavi would be more open to US and corporate relationships. I applaud the young Iranians who voted for change in their country and take to the streets with their heartfelt expressions of democracy.

what i really dont understand about this is who gets the money?

srsly who?

i doubt a single person standing on the street got paid to be there, i've been on a few protests which were later claimed to be 'paid for' rent a mob - i never saw a penny, nor for the looks of it did anyone else it was the same old crowd as ever.

when you're buying guns for people its easy, the money goes to get them into the country in the first place then the cia double agents make loads selling them to insurgents - for a standing on the roof tops screaming protest its totally different, you would need to pay people and ensure the actually did what they said - after all i would take money to protest, anyone courrupt enough to be paying for a protest deserves their money being wasted, i doubt i would actually go though lol unless i was already planning too.....

next time im in town ill nip to the job center plus and look for 'agent provocatur' in the list but im not holding up any hopes maybe i should send a CV to dinerjad - he could get his own back by paying me to protest about mp exspences or with the CND mob at the next stop the war protest lol.

Well, frankly, I wished they'd have spent 800 million.