Perverts

Facefirst,
Nudity should never be a problem. All we are seeing are people in their native form (no clothes). When a person see's enough nude people, they all start to look alike (at least in my eyes).

Its funny though. I've noticed that people get more aroused seeing someone in clothing then when they see that person in the nude. You see, when people are in clothing, there is that curiosity. When the clothing is off, what do you see? A bunch of meat, a nude body - there is nothing else really to see anymore, you're seeing that person in their natural state.

Once you get rid of the clothes, there is no mystery to a person's body anymore. People who don't grow up with nudity are very uncomfortable with it. There is only a problem, because people make a problem out of it, just like anything.

I suppose what I said could be applied to alcohol and drugs Europeans seem to be very comfortable with alcohol as well. As far as drugs go, most types of drugs are being made out to be far worse than they really are.

Most prescription drugs (especially anti-depressents) are every bit as bad as street drugs. One drug, Ritalin, is mostly used for "hyper-active" children and children that can't "focus" on one thing for too long. Whats funny about Ritalin? Ritalin is a stimulant and a type of amphetamine (closely related to Speed).

So, "Psychiatrists" prescribe the drug to essentially make the inside of their brain and body so active that it wears them down, quickly. It also causes them to get extremely focused (just like someone on Speed). Every "legal" drug has it's origins in "illegal" drugs.

We are being conditioned to be uncomfortable with "illegal" drugs but comfortable with "legal" drugs. You know what I say? A drug is a drug, is a drug. Legal, illegal, it makes no difference. They all effect your body in some way. And there is money to be made with legal and illegal drugs. I see both legal and illegal drugs to be a problem. People become dependant on any of them, and thats what the drug companies and drug cartels want to happen (especially our friend, the CIA).

Still, drugs, alcohol (which can be lumped into drugs), and sex, are all choices. You either choose to do them, or you do not choose to do them. The more you see of them, the more you get accustomed to them.

As far as death on TV goes, I'm comfortable with it. Do you want to know something interesting though? I may be comfortable with it on TV, but when I see it in real life, I'm never comfortable with it (the same goes for many other people) - because it is there, in front of me, its tangible. You are never truly prepared for it in real life. So as far as people complaining about death on TV, it shouldn't be a problem, nor should it be censored. It won't desensitize a child (especially if a parent explains to their child what they are seeing), because when that child really does see it, it won't just be a picture moving on a screen. And the same could go for porn.

I said earlier that many people would rather just watch porn and pleasure themselves instead of pleasuring another, as well as themselves. Is it desensitizing them to the needs of others? Some people maybe, but most, no. It doesn't prepare them for anything. They still act just as awkward when they have sex for the first time as anyone does - because this time, what they are seeing is right there in front of them. But, I'm sure if that person grew up with nudity (tangible nudity, not just static and moving pictures), they'd probably be more comfortable being in the nude with someone. There might not even be that huge awkwardness (well, not as much at least).

Anyways... :-D

Originally posted by parrhesia
It really doesn't make sense for one to be ok, and the other be a taboo subject. Especially when we all have the the physical form that is apparently questionable to some.

The whole Janet Jackson thing was just ridiculous. We all have nipples; what is the big deal?

I'm starting to think the FCC purposefully made it out to be worse than it really was to allow them to enact new laws to allow them to gain more money from indecency on tv, radio, etc... Where exactly does all that fine money go after the FCC receives it?

Or exactly, what do they do with it (don't particularly care about the "official" line)? It certainly doesn't help the poor and needy, nor does it help build new jobs, nor does it... I wonder.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by EmbryonicEssence]

Good point, Embryonic, and a very good question.
There have been several fines given after the whole Superbowl thing, haven't there? Due to stricter laws, enforcement, etc.

The question I posed in my first response received little attention because a seemingly valid answer was given in the subsequent post. How old can a child be until he passes the age where he is allowed to watch pornography? Answer: 15.

The intent of my post was to make noticable a common misconception that I have seen thoughout the discussion of this subject. While some have said it is maturity and other have said it is simply the body in its natural form, the point that I'm trying to make is that it is wrong regardless of age or maturity or any other factor you can cook up. If the parents are telling their children that it is wrong to watch it, but watch it themselves, on what ground are they standing to make that demand? It's illogical. If you believe in monogomy, as I do, the distinction should be clear that pornography is, in a large sense, the same as adultery, as it is explicitly stated in the bible. For those of you who don't think its wrong, why do you hide from your parents when you do it? Why woulnd't you do it in public? It's because there is a fundamental problem with it that should make its users feel guilty.

These are my opinions in accordance with my religion and beliefs.

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Cenarius]

"Why woulnd't you do it in public?" Not quite sure what you are refering to. If it's viewing porn, then I have done that in public. If you are refering to sex, I haven't, because in my case clothes are a public service.

In Britian, the Jackson incident was ridiculed..
How pathetic is that, let's be honest, massive law suits over an accidental nipple slip?
Heck we have Channel 5 and 4 showing plenty of nudity (softcore) virtually every week day
we arent dirty, just not 10000% uptight about that sorta thing

Originally posted by Cenarius
For those of you who don't think its wrong, why do you hide from your parents when you do it? Why woulnd't you do it in public? It's because there is a fundamental problem with it that should make its users feel guilty.

O'boy! Would you have sex with your girlfriend in front of your parents? Would you have sex with your wife/husband in public? Guilt is just another form of control. I would go on, but I am not interested in turning this into a religious debate.

Sex with your wife happens because you are celebrating a marriage. It is understood to be something that is done in the bedroom - however, it is also talked about shamelessly, and in many cases used as a device to analyze the durability and nature of the marriage.

Viewing pornography is without cause save for a selfless person with a lack of discipline to control his hormones. The act is considered crude, degrading, and pathetic - that is why guilt attaches itself to this degraceful act, quite a different reason then why one doesn't have sex in public.

There was no connection in your rebuttal. "Guilt is just another form of control." Qualify this statement...?

Originally posted by Cenarius
Sex with your wife happens because you are celebrating a marriage. It is understood to be something that is done in the bedroom - however, it is also talked about shamelessly, and in many cases used as a device to analyze the durability and nature of the marriage.

Viewing pornography is without cause save for a selfless person with a lack of discipline to control his hormones. The act is considered crude, degrading, and pathetic - that is why guilt attaches itself to this degraceful act, quite a different reason then why one doesn't have sex in public.

There was no connection in your rebuttal. "Guilt is just another form of control." Qualify this statement...?

Man, if you think sex is only for the bedroom I feel for your significant other. As for porn, we occationally watch it together, and we've been together for 16 years.

Originally posted by Cenarius
It's illogical. If you believe in monogomy, as I do, the distinction should be clear that pornography is, in a large sense, the same as adultery, as it is explicitly stated in the bible. It's because there is a fundamental problem with it that should make its users feel guilty.

These are my opinions in accordance with my religion and beliefs.
[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Cenarius]

Fine. They are your beliefs. Your Biblical based beliefs might be fine for you, but maybe not appropriate for the rest of us. It is your choice if you want to allow yourself to feel guilty about certain aspects of sex. I have alot of experience with that guilt concept as I was raised Catholic.(which probably has the most unrealistic view of sex I have ever be aware of)

If that is what works for you, then all the more power to you.

But I strongly disagree that looking at porn is the same as adultery. That is stretching it. It is possible to pleasure yourself to another's image and still love your mate.

What's the point of 'receiving pleasure' - especially if you're married! - from another women's body if you truly love your wife! That is incomprehensible to me! Would you have no problem if, when you went out to dinner with her, that she examine every male specimen in the surroundings? That woulnd't make you feel anything at all?!

Originally posted by Cenarius
What's the point of 'receiving pleasure' - especially if you're married! - from another women's body if you truly love your wife! That is incomprehensible to me! Would you have no problem if, when you went out to dinner with her, that she examine every male specimen in the surroundings? That woulnd't make you feel anything at all?!

That is your opinion and take on things.

Masturbation is healthy and nothing to be ashamed of.

As far as a woman examining all the male species during dinner, that would just be in bad taste.(IMO)

That being said, I have been out with some women who have remarked on someone's appearance or if they find someone attractive.....doesn't mean they want to sleep with them or that they are insulting you. I have enough self-confidence to not be miffed at something like that if it is honest and serious as opposed to being outright rude.

It is just a different point of view, that's all. It took me a long time to shake alot of the mis-conceptions(LOL!) that the Catholic Church taught me about sex and relationships.

Originally posted by Cenarius
What's the point of 'receiving pleasure' - especially if you're married! - from another women's body if you truly love your wife! That is incomprehensible to me! Would you have no problem if, when you went out to dinner with her, that she examine every male specimen in the surroundings? That woulnd't make you feel anything at all?!

I do not honestly believe that your wife (or you for that matter) has never had a fantasy before. Everyone does. It is not a betrayal, it is not a wish for something better, it is not a dissatisfaction with your current partner, but a sign of an active healthy mind and libido. I appreciate and "examine" most male specimens, but it ends there because I am happy with and loyal to my husband.

I didn't have time to proofread so keep that in mind.

Originally posted by Cenarius

I'm trying to make is that it is wrong regardless of age or maturity or any other factor you can cook up. If the parents are telling their children that it is wrong to watch it, but watch it themselves, on what ground are they standing to make that demand?

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Cenarius]

Here's the ground parents are standing on. They think that kids are to young and easily influenced. The porn the kids watch will give them the idea that sex is a care-free thing that can be used for pleasure. If they think this,the kids will go out and have sex.

I personally think that it is alright for kids to watch porn as long as they understand it and know that it is just porn. However, i do believe it lowers the sanctity of sex and makes kids think it is just okay to have it. This leads to unwanted pregnancies, disease spreads, and a lowering number if virgins.

Originally posted by Cenarius

If you believe in monogomy, as I do, the distinction should be clear that pornography is, in a large sense, the same as adultery, as it is explicitly stated in the bible. For those of you who don't think its wrong, why do you hide from your parents when you do it? Why woulnd't you do it in public? It's because there is a fundamental problem with it that should make its users feel guilty.
[Edited on 4-5-2004 by Cenarius]

Yoiu ask why we don't do it in public. First of all, i don't think people need to watch me jerk my chicken. Also, why do some kids hide from thier parents? Some don't. The only reason they do is if thier parents don't approve (parental approval does not determine what is right and wrong). I know some kids whose parents know and don't care.

You ask why is there guilt. There is "guilt" for some people because of what society has taught them. Namely, thier parents. Sex isn't to open in this society (America) for reasons i don't know of. I know sex became a "sin" during the middle ages when the church was taking power, but i don't know why america is like this.

There are societies that don't call sex a bad thing. Last time i heard prostitutes were legal in Amsterdam (Can someone validate that statement is true) .

Sorry i have been gone from my thread so long. Forgive me?



[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Qraz A.K.A. MIlfort]

Masturbation is healthy and nothing to be ashamed of.

Qualify this statement? Zero substantial evidence.

I appreciate and "examine" most male specimens, but it ends there because I am happy with and loyal to my husband.

The point I was trying to make here was not merely 'checking' somebody out in public - the connection was to somebody in a pornography movie. By lusting after somebody in that movie you are giving part of yourself to them, or in other words, not giving yourself in your entirety, to your wife (or husband).

However, i do believe it lowers the sanctity of sex and makes kids think it is just okay to have it. This leads to unwanted pregnancies, disease spreads, and a lowering number if virgins.

There is "guilt" for some people because of what society has taught them.

Sex isn't to open in this society (America) for reasons i don't know of. I know sex became a "sin" during the middle ages when the church was taking power, but i don't know why america is like this.

Your arguments are fallible and no distinct theory or opinion is stated. You say that a lower number of virgins is undesirable, yet you believe in gratuitous sex, but you also believe in the 'sanctity' of sex...explain yourself?

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

Originally posted by Cenarius

Masturbation is healthy and nothing to be ashamed of.


Qualify this statement? Zero substantial evidence.

Can you provide evidence to the contrary?

Originally posted by Cenarius

Masturbation is healthy and nothing to be ashamed of.

Qualify this statement? Zero substantial evidence.quote]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

There are several excellent studies regarding masturbaton and prostate health. Here's one for you to review. www.newscientist.com...

Originally posted by Cenarius

Masturbation is healthy and nothing to be ashamed of.

Qualify this statement? Zero substantial evidence.

I appreciate and "examine" most male specimens, but it ends there because I am happy with and loyal to my husband.

The point I was trying to make here was not merely 'checking' somebody out in public - the connection was to somebody in a pornography movie. By lusting after somebody in that movie you are giving part of yourself to them, or in other words, not giving yourself in your entirety, to your wife (or husband).

However, i do believe it lowers the sanctity of sex and makes kids think it is just okay to have it. This leads to unwanted pregnancies, disease spreads, and a lowering number if virgins.

There is "guilt" for some people because of what society has taught them.

Sex isn't to open in this society (America) for reasons i don't know of. I know sex became a "sin" during the middle ages when the church was taking power, but i don't know why america is like this.

Your arguments are fallible and no distinct theory or opinion is stated. You say that a lower number of virgins is undesirable, yet you believe in gratuitous sex, but you also believe in the 'sanctity' of sex...explain yourself?

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

1. I do not need to provide any evidence. Shame is something someone allows themselves to feel. Masturbation does not physically hurt anyone, so it is not "unhealthy."

2 I did not write what you quoted, but I think myself and the original author "Bleys" share similar views. By getting aroused by something you see in a porn movie does not make you "unfaithful" to your mate. As long as such subjects between mates are out in the open with honesty, I do not see anything wrong with fantasies. Your definition of giving yourself completely may work for you...but not for everyone else.

3. Not sure what to say. The debate on that subject is not very clear or defined. Please elaborate.

You do as you please on your own time as will I with my time in regards to sexual matters. As long as no one gets hurt.....then everything is fine with me.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Facefirst]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

There are several excellent studies regarding masturbaton and prostate health. Here's one for you to review. www.newscientist.com...

Brilliant link. Thank you!

I should indulge more often for my health!


[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Facefirst]

Originally posted by Cenarius

There is "guilt" for some people because of what society has taught them.

Sex isn't to open in this society (America) for reasons i don't know of. I know sex became a "sin" during the middle ages when the church was taking power, but i don't know why america is like this.

Your arguments are fallible and no distinct theory or opinion is stated. You say that a lower number of virgins is undesirable, yet you believe in gratuitous sex, but you also believe in the 'sanctity' of sex...explain yourself?

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Cenarius]

I said a lower number of virgins just because there probably are a lower number of virgins. Not like that is a bad thing.

Second of all, i think sex isn't some sacred thing that needs to be cherished. It is a physical function that keeps the race alive. My problem is that the way humans are going now the race is fine. We don't need to have babies the second we can.

We could tell people not to have sex unless your married to make sure that if a child is concieved it has two parents. People won't do this though. The only other way t o control people is through religion, tv, or society. We need to tell the young ones sex is only for marriage(Except if you are a homosexual).

My societies design doesn't make it favorable to have a baby at 13 therefore we should tell kids that sex is a sin.