911 How Could Al-Qaeda Have Known?

reply to post by Jenna


WoW! I guess no one in the Bush Admin knew about it then!!!

"No one could imagine that planes would be used to crash into buildings"

www.huffingtonpost.com...

So I guess playing dumb is a legitimate defense in your mind?

Of course this is from a ""liberal"" website, but if you're not too lazy you can find Bush and Condi stating this for all the world to see.

Get your head out of your ......

Edit to add:

So in your logic, everybody in the world could find out about the exercises(by doing a google search probably. lol) going on that day, except the US government??? You are too brilliant my dear!!



[edit on 18-6-2009 by truthtothemasses]

Reply to impressme :
''Bring caronfox and swampfox, pteridine, exponent, Reheat, GenRadek.''

This is not your private site. Who do you think you are to choose who you want to discuss with ?
If you want to do that, start your own site.

Fallacy is a very nice word.
Though not everything that is wrong is a fallacy.
yours, impressme, however is.

Non Sequitur, to be exact.

How could alqueida have known that visibility would be good on 9/11? (as important to the success of the attack as the exercises)
We are left with 2 possibilities: They are able to predict the weather with 100% accuracy, wich is rather unlikely. Or: Divine intervention. Now if it was divine intervention we can assume that god himself approved of the attack. In that case radical muslims were right all along, everybody else is going to go to hell and the highjackers are at this very moment enjoying their virigins.

If you accept your own argument you must accept this one too. Ready to convert and enlist?



[edit on 18-6-2009 by debunky]

Al-Qeada did not care. First, it is prejudice and ignorant to look at AQ as a bunch of cave dwellers. These same people fought the Soviets in Afghanistan and cut their teeth and grew their jihad mentality.

In 93, they attempted to bring down the WTC. It did not work. A plan was then created to crash planes into buildings and it was not just the East Coast that would be attacked. However, that is the only plan that came to fruition. Ever heard of Bojinka? Look it up. These were Khalid Sheik Mohammed.

KSM planned 9/11 and I find it funny how suddenly people are quoting him on this site as saying he had nothing to do with 9/11. It was because of him that other attacks were prevented. He is linked to dozens of attacks over the last 15 years and dozens more prevented. He is also linked to the death and Daniel Pearl.

Bottom line is AQ could care less even if they had the information, which,is basically public knowledge because most exercises of that type make at least a local paper. Military exercises are not always TOP SECRET.

Originally posted by impressme
dailydoseofterror.blogspot.com...

So, this site and www.oilempire.us are your sources? Wow, you're kidding me? They sure are mainstream, non-partisian sites, huh?

They look mainly to be opinions of someone. You know, what you seem to get your rocks off busting peoples chops over.

Originally posted by impressme
Nice try, how about a source for this ridiculous statement?

Jenna is right. Just do a google search on any military exercise name and something is going to come up, especially if it's near city so that the civilians will know what's going on. Also, if it's near an airport so that it doesn't affect air travel.

Originally posted by impressme
Nice try, how about a source for this ridiculous statement?

Sure, here you go.

LAPD Supports Urban Military Training Exercises
Soldiers, Civilians Come Together to Combat 'Red Dragon' Crisis
Explosion coming June 23 at Fort Campbell

Want me to go back beyond this year? Here you go:

Major Military Training Exercise Planned in Indiana
US Military to Conduct Joint Training Exercise

Want more? Go do some research before trying to claim my statement was ridiculous.

Is that so, how about telling that to the, DTHC workers at the pentagon

Oh, you mean the ones who were expecting a drill?

From the source of what you quoted:

Curiously, several DTHC workers have indicated that, when they were ordered to evacuate after the Pentagon was hit, they initially thought this was a drill. Admittedly, the clinic is located in the basement and on the east of the building--the opposite side to where it was impacted--and so people there had not heard or felt the crash. [3] Yet, considering that the two crashes occurring in New York made it obvious the U.S. was under attack, this reaction seems surprising. An examination of the accounts of these workers and other evidence raises the possibility that their confusion was because a drill was scheduled to take place there that day. Remarkably, there is evidence that such a drill might have been based around a plane hitting the Pentagon.

How nice of you to leave off that part. They were expecting a drill, because one was scheduled. So yeah, I can see some of them being a bit confused in the beginning. Care to try again? Or would you rather just continue your failed attempts at ridicule?

Good. When you find the link to the evidence that lists every maneuver planned for the war games on 911 please post it. Remember, the link has to be well before 911 not something looking back.

As I said in my original post, there are so many pages of junk out there that it is practically impossible to find anything about September 2001 without being buried under irrelevant pages. Personally, I don't care enough to waste anymore of my time searching through the millions of pages on 9/11 to find the ones that are relevant. If you care enough to find them, knock yourself out.

reply to post by truthtothemasses


Oh please. Did you expect it to happen? Did anyone you know expect a plane to be flown into a building on purpose? No one did. The military trains for possibilities all the time, that doesn't mean they expect any or all of them to happen.

Am I saying that the official story is 100% correct? Nope. Am I saying it is 100% false? Nope. I don't know what parts of it are true, or even if any of it is. Nice of you to assume I believe all of it though with nothing to base your opinion on.

A question was asked, "How could Al-Qaeda have known?" I provided an answer to how they could have known that there were training exercises planned for that day. You don't have to like the answer, but there's no need to get rude and tell me to take my head out of my rear-end. It does nothing to help your case or prove me wrong.

posted by Boone 870
reply to post by impressme

 

Our military was engaged in war games that simulated aircraft crashing into skyscrapers on 9/11?

Do you have a source?

Yes they were Boone. Where have you been; offplanet?

You can cease your phony pretense.

This is not the first time this has been brought to your attention is it?

Hoping the sources had been successfully destroyed by now Boone?

On 9/11, CIA Was Running Simulation of a Plane Crashing into a Building

The National Law Enforcement and Security Institute will be holding a conference called "Homeland Security: America's Leadership Challenge" in Chicago on 6 Sept 2002. The star speaker is Rudolph Giuliani. One of the other speakers is CIA man John Fulton. Here is the crucial sentence from the promotional literature for the conference:

On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team at the CIA were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building.

Agency planned drill for plane crash last Sept. 11
Associated Press
August 22, 2002

WASHINGTON -- In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft crashed into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet crashed into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. To simulate the damage from the plane, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

Terrorism was to play no role in the exercise, which had been planned for several months, he said.

Adding to the coincidence, American Airlines Flight 77 -- the Boeing 767 that was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon -- took off from Dulles at 8:10 a.m. on Sept. 11, 50 minutes before the exercise was to begin. It struck the Pentagon around 9:40 a.m., killing 64 aboard the plane and 125 on the ground.

The National Reconnaissance Office operates many of the nation's spy satellites. It draws its personnel from the military and the CIA.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the 3,000 people who work at agency headquarters were sent home, save for some essential personnel, Haubold said.

An announcement for an upcoming homeland security conference in Chicago first noted the exercise.

In a promotion for speaker John Fulton, a CIA officer assigned as chief of NRO's strategic gaming division, the announcement says, "On the morning of September 11th 2001, Mr. Fulton and his team ... were running a pre-planned simulation to explore the emergency response issues that would be created if a plane were to strike a building. Little did they know that the scenario would come true in a dramatic way that day."

The conference is being run by the National Law Enforcement and Security Institute.

www.thememoryhole.org...

Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
By John J. Lumpkin, Associated Press
Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company

WASHINGTON — In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft would crash into one of its buildings. But the cause wasn't terrorism -- it was to be a simulated accident.

Officials at the Chantilly, Va.-based National Reconnaissance Office had scheduled an exercise that morning in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the agency's headquarters building after experiencing a mechanical failure.

The agency is about four miles from the runways of Washington Dulles International Airport.

Agency chiefs came up with the scenario to test employees' ability to respond to a disaster, said spokesman Art Haubold. No actual plane was to be involved -- to simulate the damage from the crash, some stairwells and exits were to be closed off, forcing employees to find other ways to evacuate the building.

"It was just an incredible coincidence that this happened to involve an aircraft crashing into our facility," Haubold said. "As soon as the real world events began, we canceled the exercise."

www.boston.com...

Here's Barbara Honegger:

...the main pilot of the 9-11 Pentagon plane, former Navy and then Navy Reservist pilot Charles Burlingame, had recently, in a Reserve assignment at the Pentagon, been part of a Task Force that drafted the Pentagon's emergency response plan on what to do in case a plane hit the building - which his own plane then did.

It is therefore very possible - in fact extremely likely, if not certain - that this 'task force' that Flight 77 pilot "Chick" Burlingame was part of was the Cheney counterterrorism preparedness task force, and that the Pentagon plane pilot, therefore, directly knew and even worked with/for Cheney. and
Burlingame's 9-11 Pentagon plane not only hit the Pentagon that morning, it struck a Command and Control center for that morning's counterterrorism "game" exercise, killing most, if not all, of the "players".

We know this because [b]Army personnel from Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey were on special duty assignment at the Pentagon that morning for an emergency response exercise and were killed when Burlingame's plane hit. Ft. Monmouth, New Jersey also happens to be the headquarters for White House/Presidential communications, including therefore probably also for Air Force One (this is discoverable) -- and recall the warning "Air Force One is next" and the 'secret code' which was called into the White House that morning which WH press secretary Ari Fleischer revealed as a means of explaining why Pres. Bush left Florida for a military base and did not return to the White House. This "warning" was probably called into the White House, if true, by either the Ft. Monmouth White House communications headquarters and/or the Ft. Monmouth counterterrorism exercise "game" players temporarily at the Pentagon that morning.

www.democraticunderground.com...

reply to post by Jenna


Come on Jenna. Don't be so disengenuous. 2004, 2007, 2009? The internet was not so useful way back in 2001 was it? In fact it was mostly useless wasn't it? All this Google searching expertise has really taken place over the past 6 years hasn't it?

An examination of the accounts of these workers and other evidence raises the possibility that their confusion was because a drill was scheduled to take place there that day. Remarkably, there is evidence that such a drill might have been based around a plane hitting the Pentagon.

How nice of you to leave off that part. They were expecting a drill, because one was scheduled. So yeah, I can see some of them being a bit confused in the beginning.

Why would the Pentagon be scheduling a drill of an aircraft crashing into the Pentagon on a day when an aircraft allegedly crashed into the Pentagon? That does not bother you?

Do you think that drill works well with the alleged aircraft crashing into an almost impossible 1st floor area which had just been reinforced and was mostly empty except for people who were conducting a CIA counterterrorism exercise of aircraft crashing into buildings, and allegedly killing most of the players of that drill?

So was Hani Hanjour part of that exercise too, and just cooperating by not diving the aircraft into Rumsfeld's offices, and instead flying the aircraft with superhuman abilities at 530 mph inches above the lawn?

Oh I forgot; the actual aircraft has been PROVEN flying Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and high above the 1st floor, and could not have possibly been flying inches above the lawn, and Hani Hanjour wasn't even there was he?

Originally posted by Jenna

As I said in my original post, there are so many pages of junk out there that it is practically impossible to find anything about September 2001 without being buried under irrelevant pages. Personally, I don't care enough to waste anymore of my time searching through the millions of pages on 9/11 to find the ones that are relevant. If you care enough to find them, knock yourself out.

Whenever I see a comment like this (and I see them quite often), I have resolved myself to assume that the person who wrote it actually has no clue as to whether this information exists and is scared to find out if it doesn't (or does - depending on the argument) - therefore they attempt to fob the "work" of looking for the information onto the opposing party then sit back and wait for them to fail to find it so that they can call them out on it and seemingly reinforce their own argument.

Quite an underhanded and dirty tactic really, but then what else should we expect from people who can be so easily deluded by propaganda.

Originally posted by Kryties
Whenever I see a comment like this (and I see them quite often), I have resolved myself to assume that the person who wrote it actually has no clue as to whether this information exists and is scared to find out if it doesn't (or does - depending on the argument) - therefore they attempt to fob the "work" of looking for the information onto the opposing party then sit back and wait for them to fail to find it so that they can call them out on it and seemingly reinforce their own argument.

Thanks to the hundreds of "9/11 truthers" or whatever they liked to be called, it is impossible to find a lot of documentation from an original source. Most of it's been quoted or linked to by one website or another.

Originally posted by Kryties
Quite an underhanded and dirty tactic really, but then what else should we expect from people who can be so easily deluded by propaganda.

You know, since I started posting on this thread, I've seen alot of attitude and smart ass remarks to people that have honest questions about sources or just want to express their own opinions.

Looks like it's time for me to dial up the obnoxious knob to Medium once again.

Jenna, how long in advance could Al Qaeda have known the exact date and time of the scheduled war games/excersises that would match perfectly with their plan? It's not like they could have planned and trained for it overnight, right? How long was the terrorist plot planned, and how many days before 9/11 was the date of the war games public?
I don't expect you to give a real reply, because that would destroy your comments...

Here, I'll give you help on half of the equation:

April 30-Early September 1996: Hani Hanjour Studies English in Northern California; Enrolls at Aeronautics Academy

source: www.historycommons.org...

posted by Kryties
Whenever I see a comment like this (and I see them quite often), I have resolved myself to assume that the person who wrote it actually has no clue as to whether this information exists and is scared to find out if it doesn't (or does - depending on the argument) - therefore they attempt to fob the "work" of looking for the information onto the opposing party then sit back and wait for them to fail to find it so that they can call them out on it and seemingly reinforce their own argument.

posted by jerico65
Thanks to the hundreds of "9/11 truthers" or whatever they liked to be called, it is impossible to find a lot of documentation from an original source. Most of it's been quoted or linked to by one website or another.

No, most of the original material and photos have been successfully removed from public access by the 9-11 perps. Unfortunately for the bad guys, a lot of evidence got stored on home computers right away, and their 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY nonsense is self-destructing faster than they and their minions can prop it up.

Then also we must thank the insider 'leakers' for their help. Some day after the 9-11 perps have been tried and publicly executed, I would hope that these 'leakers' might be recognized for their patriotism and publicly awarded medals.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by truthtothemasses

 

Oh please. Did you expect it to happen? Did anyone you know expect a plane to be flown into a building on purpose? No one did. The military trains for possibilities all the time, that doesn't mean they expect any or all of them to happen.

I don't work in the field of gathering intelligence to prevent terror attacks, so no I did not expect it to happen. But yeah you're right, they just do those exercises for fun and games and never ever imagine it happening in real life.

The U.S. government warned Saudi Arabia more than three years before the Sept. 11 attacks that Osama bin Laden might use civilian airplanes in terror attacks, according to a memo released Friday by the National Security Archive, NBC News reported.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

The report specifically warned that civil aviation, Washington landmarks such as the White House and Capitol and buildings on Wall Street were at the greatest risk of a domestic terror attack by Muslim extremists, the official said.

www.cbsnews.com...

You can find numerous article here 911proof.com...on the subject.

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
Here, I'll give you help on half of the equation:

April 30-Early September 1996: Hani Hanjour Studies English in Northern California; Enrolls at Aeronautics Academy

source: www.historycommons.org...

So what you are saying that al quaeda knew 5 years in advance what the weather would be like on 9/11?

Face it, this argument breaks apart at this point:
"The wargames were a critical and crucial part to the plan"
No, they were not.
Did they help? propably a little
Did the good weather help? propably a little
Did bad security on US internal flights prior to 2001 help? propably a little

Where any of these crucial break points of the plan? nope.

Also @ Spreston: Rest assured that the internet was around in 2001. Actually organizations back then were *more* willing to give information away over the net, because it was still taken serious (not bubble economy serious, but more serious than today)

Originally posted by SPreston
Come on Jenna. Don't be so disengenuous.

I'm not. I was asked, rudely demanded actually, to find proof that military training exercise dates are released frequently to the public, and I have done so.

The internet was not so useful way back in 2001 was it? In fact it was mostly useless wasn't it?

Way back in 2001? Are you serious? It was much easier to find things back then. Not as many junk sites clogging up the internet searches. And google has been around since the late 90's, it's not a recent invention.

Why would the Pentagon be scheduling a drill of an aircraft crashing into the Pentagon on a day when an aircraft allegedly crashed into the Pentagon? That does not bother you?

It is a bit of a coincidence, I'll give you that. But it's not proof of anything. It only explains why people there thought that they were experiencing a drill in the beginning. If you were at work and there was supposed to be a fire drill, would you believe you it was the scheduled drill at first if the fire alarm went off or there was an announcement to evacuate the building? This isn't much different. They were expecting a drill. It makes perfect sense that they would believe that's what was going on at first.

Do you think that drill works well with the alleged aircraft crashing into an almost impossible 1st floor area which had just been reinforced and was mostly empty except for people who were conducting a CIA counterterrorism exercise of aircraft crashing into buildings, and allegedly killing most of the players of that drill?

So did you go read the source article for what I quoted? Or did you not bother since I didn't link it myself? The people who believed it was a drill were on the opposite side of the building and likely didn't even feel the impact. They weren't right there where the plane hit. Here, I'll quote it again for you.

Pentagon Medics Thought Attack was Part of Drill
Curiously, several DTHC workers have indicated that, when they were ordered to evacuate after the Pentagon was hit, they initially thought this was a drill. Admittedly, the clinic is located in the basement and on the east of the building--the opposite side to where it was impacted--and so people there had not heard or felt the crash.

So was Hani Hanjour part of that exercise too, and just cooperating by not diving the aircraft into Rumsfeld's offices, and instead flying the aircraft with superhuman abilities at 530 mph inches above the lawn?

I don't know, was he?

Oh I forgot; the actual aircraft has been PROVEN flying Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and high above the 1st floor, and could not have possibly been flying inches above the lawn, and Hani Hanjour wasn't even there was he?

Again, I don't know, was he?

Originally posted by Kryties
Whenever I see a comment like this (and I see them quite often), I have resolved myself to assume that the person who wrote it actually has no clue as to whether this information exists and is scared to find out if it doesn't (or does - depending on the argument) - therefore they attempt to fob the "work" of looking for the information onto the opposing party then sit back and wait for them to fail to find it so that they can call them out on it and seemingly reinforce their own argument.

Quite an underhanded and dirty tactic really, but then what else should we expect from people who can be so easily deluded by propaganda.

If you disagree with what I have posted, then prove me wrong. Posts such as this that are nothing more than thinly veiled character attacks do nothing to help you, and don't hurt my feelings in the least.

I love how people in this section of the forum assume they know what others think and believe with no proof whatsoever that their assumptions are correct. You know what assuming does.

reply to post by Jenna


Well then prove me wrong and search the information for yourself rather than fob it off onto the opposing person(s) because you "couldn't be bothered". I have seen that argument play out many times and the person who makes the "I just can't be bothered" comment usually ends up exceptionally embarrassed. Please, prove this wrong if you can

And you are doing a little assuming about the type of person I am also. Pot calling Kettle black?

Originally posted by PplVSNWO
Jenna, how long in advance could Al Qaeda have known the exact date and time of the scheduled war games/excersises that would match perfectly with their plan?

As the other poster said, you're assuming that the scheduled training was an important part of their plan with no proof whatsoever that it was. And to answer your question, it depends. Some training exercises are annual so the dates are easily findable, others aren't annual but the dates can be found once they are scheduled. If this particular training exercise was as important as you believe it was, it is entirely possible that the attacks were originally planned for October when the training exercise was originally scheduled for. When it was rescheduled for September, maybe they moved up the date for the attacks. But again, that's assuming that the training exercise was an integral part of the attack plan and not merely a coincidence.

It's not like they could have planned and trained for it overnight, right?

I don't know, I've never planned or trained for a terrorist attack. But no I would imagine it wasn't an overnight thing.

How long was the terrorist plot planned, and how many days before 9/11 was the date of the war games public?

The training exercise was an annual exercise from what I've read, but the date was moved up to September instead of October when it was normally scheduled for. So the information would have been available to anyone who cared enough at the time to find it. I didn't plan the attacks so I have no way of knowing how long they were planning it.

I don't expect you to give a real reply, because that would destroy your comments...

And I don't expect civility, because that would destroy the foundation of hatefulness that you are so carefully standing upon while posting in this thread.

Here, I'll give you help on half of the equation:

April 30-Early September 1996: Hani Hanjour Studies English in Northern California; Enrolls at Aeronautics Academy

source: www.historycommons.org...

And that proves what other than that he was learning English and how to fly a plane?

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
But yeah you're right, they just do those exercises for fun and games and never ever imagine it happening in real life.

I have several handguns in my home and learned how to operate them in case someone ever breaks in, but I don't expect it to happen. I have fire alarms in case my house ever catches on fire, but I don't expect it to happen. I have insurance on my vehicle, but I don't expect to be in an accident. I have life insurance on myself and my children, but I don't expect any of us to die any time soon.

People plan for the worst all the time, that doesn't mean they necessarily expect the worst to happen. It just means they want to be prepared if the worst does happen.