Netanyahu says will accept demilitarized Palestinian state

Yeah, whatever you say. I just feel sorry for the American taxpayer who is busting his ass and doesn't even know that he is supporting this "cycle of recycled revenge". By the way, the quote is courtesy of Chris Martin of Coldplay.

reply to post by Sky watcher


Please, don't add fuel to the flames. Advocate a peaceful consensus.
To me, both sides have failed. Both sides are equally responsible for this situation, they have done everything possible NOT to make peace.

I am sorry I am going to correct you to show your facts are wrong and one-sided. I will not go through all your post because there are far too many mistakes. If you are well-intentionned, you will, maybe, think about it.

There has never been a nation of Palestine, this land was a part of the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire and then under British Mandate. But the land is called Palestine and the people living in this land called Palestinians for centuries. I think the Greeks already used the term Palestine. So I think it's fair to use Palestine and Palestinians to refer to the land and the people.
The Palestinians are not so called Palestinians and they mainly don't come from Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan. Or do you think that before 1948, Palestine was a no man's land ? The Palestinians are living there for centuries. The nowadays Israelian Jews ancestors have never lived in Israel.
Israel cannot give Gaza because Gaza is not a part of Israel and never was. Gaza was occupied by Israel. No country owns any right on Gaza. It's an unattached territory. That Gaza is a part of Israel is an exclusive Zionist view because of the settlements that were established after the 6-Day War. No country has recognised Israelian rights over Gaza.

May I ask you if you are american ? I have always found funny americans using the argument that the land was in the first place stolen. Do americans understand how this argument can seriously fire back at them ?

I want to be a pragmatic. Israel exists. So be it. There is room for everyone to live in peace if the extremists on both sides are put aside.
I still believe it can happen.

reply to post by Sky watcher


I'll respect your biased Christian opinion on the matter so long as you can learn to respect the fact that the Jews lost their land a long time ago fair and square according to the same rules they claim now (specifically that land aquired through war is ok to keep). It doesn't matter if what the Palestinians had was a "state" or not. The fact that the UN came in and forcibly removed them from land that they had been on for hundreds of years is enough to be pissed off about. Would you be happy and willing to give your house to a native american (assuming, of course, you live in the americas) because their tribe lived there a couple hundred years ago?

JERUSALEM – Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu endorsed a Palestinian state beside Israel for the first time on Sunday, reversing himself under U.S. pressure but attaching conditions such as having no army that the Palestinians swiftly rejected.



"I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions,"


This is Netanyahu double-speak...

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Oatmeal]

reply to post by Oatmeal


Aye, definately classic double speak. "we'll agree to a two state solution with a helpless, armyless pakistani state if they'll agree to meet with us with no conditions". Honestly, they should accept. Meet with Isreal and agree to no formal army. Then they can issue complimentary firearms to every citizen of Palestine and claim they are for neighborhood watch use only. *smirk*

I really don't believe asking Palestine to be demilitarized is too much to ask for and I will explain why. Israel does not want rockets flying over it's boarders and a demilitarized Palestine would accomplish this.

Palestine being demilitarized is not going to effect them much at all with their biggest threat being Israel. Lets face the facts, it has been proven that if Israel wants to they could roll into Gaza whenever they feel like it. Israel has no need to weaken Palestine to the point whey they can go in and take over, Palestine is already weak enough for them to do that.

reply to post by Manouche


Stop spreading your Islamic/anti-Israel propaganda. Ashkenazi Jew literally means German Jew. Geneticists have been able to use DNA and genetic markers to trace Ashkenazi lineage back to the Middle East and Israel.

This BS you spread is nothing more than an attempt to de-legitimize Israel's existence.

Dr. Hammer said the new study "moves us forward in trying to understand Jewish population history." His own recent research, he said, suggests that the Ashkenazi population expanded through a series of bottlenecks - events that squeeze a population down to small numbers - perhaps as it migrated from the Middle East after the destruction of the Second Temple in A.D. 70 to Italy, reaching the Rhine Valley in the 10th century.

www.nytimes.com...

[edit on 14-6-2009 by finemanm]

I have to agree with the many on the thread, that Mr. Netanyahu is offering up a hard bargain. It would be great that the two warring factions the Israelis and Palestinians could live in two states with relative peace but that is naive.

However, giving up your arms for statehood? I don't know if that is in the best interests of the Palestinians. It is an empty offer and no nation in their right mind would agree to that proposal. I'm not condoning the Palestinians and their assaults on Israel but to give up your right to defense for peace and statehood? It is just an empty proposal on the part of the Prime Minister and I think it is a political ploy on his part to show the international community that he is not as stubborn and hard line as everyone thinks.

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Jakes51]

[edit on 14-6-2009 by Jakes51]

This is the thing that utterly amazes me. It amazes me because even Israel’s detractors are so conditioned to accept portions of flawed logic that no one even thinks to say or ask…

Fair enough…

The Palestinians have no arms, the Israelis have no arms.

How is it possible acceptable for the Israelis who have broken every treaty they have ever had with the United Nations that aided the founding Zionists with lawful immigration into a land that they have stolen, murdered, tortured, degraded and inhumanely treated the very hosts that originally bestowed them the legal right to even possibly be considered as having some virtue the infers that they as a State can safely and sanely be armed, which clearly they cannot and that the Palestinians cannot be safely and sanely armed?

This is not an apple to apple comparison the Israelis are asking for, or even an oranges to oranges comparison.

This is simply another attempt by the aggressor to seek ultimate reward, control and power at the pitiful and abhorrent effort of trying to further slander, defame, humiliate and degrade the Palestinians for not wanting something that Israel and the Zionists would never want for themselves.

When is the world going to wake up and realize that’s an insane, uneven, hypocritical and insultingly offensive double standard and cease tolerating this inane arrogance on the part of an Israeli State that functions as a drain on every nation and people’s resources and provides not one anything of any intrinsic or tangible value?

This is just plain wrong, what is wrong with people that they don’t see that?

reply to post by finemanm


I don't want to delegitimize Israel's existence. I am full for it. Did you bother to read my post until the end ?

You know very well there are other researches about the Ashkenazis origins and they are supported by many Israelian Jews scholars. They are called anti-Israelian propagandists and Nazis. So I am not surprised by your first sentence.
I fully support an Israelian state and where Ashkenazis come from is not very relevant to me. They can live there. I am not using it to deny their right to live in Israel.

For Zionists, it's a crucial matter that the modern Jews are the sons of the ancient Jews, it is the base of their ideology. They can't let it be disproved or everything falls down.
It's a Zionist problem, not a Jew or an Israelian one.

Peace, friend.

reply to post by finemanm


Odd, I didn't see any Islamic/Anti-Isreal bias in his statement. In fact, I see him addressing both sides fairly. Maybe you just missed that in his post.

[edit to clafiry my language after re-reading the post]

What I don't understand (in general, not just regarding this post) is why people are allowed to say all kinds of hateful arrogant things about Arabs, Mulsims, Palestinians, etc. and get away with it, but the moment they say even one thing critical of Isreal, they are Anti-Isreal or Anti-Semetic? Seems a little off base and out of balance to me.

[edit on 6-14-2009 by rogerstigers]

What an absurd world we live in...

Anti-Semites complain about the blatant Jewish racism...

Yet NO ONE bats an eyelash when the Arab countries INSIST the JEWS must be removed from THEIR land...

The Israeli premier FINALLY agreees to a separate state for the Arabs...

Yet the Arabs do nothing but pummel him with criticism.

Is there anyone here that sees the UNENDING LUDICROUSNESS of the entire fiasco?

Despite the USA messiah's best efforts our grandkids will still be striving for 'Middle East Peace'.

An oxymoron, if there ever was one.

reply to post by golemina


Indeed what an absurd world.

People who are against the militant opression by Isreal against its neighbors are labeled anti-semite by people who don't even know what the word means.

Palestinians are forced off of land that their family has been on for hundreds of years and told they have no right to live there anymore because the Isreali nation of 1000s of years ago that was defeated in perfectly legal (at the time) warfare was there first. (Does this mean the Native Americans have the right to make all of us Americans live in the desert while they take over our houses?)

Isreal has nuclear weapons and a state of the art advanced military (courtesy of US taxpayers) but they will only allow Palestinians to live in a state where they can have the rights and privileges of a full citizen if they choose not to have any army at all.

Isreal claims to be a victim of endless terrorism and attacks, yet they feel it is ok to kill power to an entire population, block their food and fresh water resources, and prevent any other supplies from entering the region.

See, I can make one sided hand picked generalizations too. That doesn't make me any more right than you are. And I am not anti-semite or anti-jew (they are differant, you know). I don't actually care at all about the fate of some biblical Jewish state. If they can live in peace with their neighbors without oppressing them, more power to them.



[edit on 6-15-2009 by rogerstigers]

reply to post by rogerstigers


I've only got one phrase for you brother...

Get real. Get a clue.

If the Arabs REALLY wanted peace they would be throwing flowers instead of rocks and firing rockets.

The Arabs have ABSOLUTELY no interest in Peace.

And pretty much all the yakking in the world will NEVER change that fact and pretty much NEVER hide the ugliness that are their intentions.

Dude, you dig where I'm coming from?

reply to post by golemina


I know you weren't talking to me but I don't think you know where anyone is coming from.

Do you even know how the gazans are being treated?

What do you expect oppressed people to do?
Just take it?

I guess you would probably call blacks terroists during the slave era too.

reply to post by golemina


Actually, I *DO* know where you are coming from. It is a standard pacifist doctrine that only works in situations where both sides are viewed as equals and the fighting is about something stupid and meaningless, like a fued between families. In cases like that, then yes, a unilateral and sincere peace offering can be the starting point to peace.

This is not the case in Gaza. These people are, at the very root, fighting for the recovery of the homes they were kicked out of. In addition, they are rebelling against being forced into a life of being 2nd rate citizens. They have no equal rights with Jews in Isreal. They want to be their own people, but Isreal wants to be a Jewish state. Actually, what stuns me is how many Christians support Isreal. They aren't saying they want a Judeo-Christian state.

*shrug* I wish it was as easy as Hammas walking forward and saying, "OK, we'll cease fire and lock away our weapons for 12 months to give you a chance to open our borders, restore normal services, and leave us completely autonomous". If Isreal actually accepted that and truely did all of that without waiting until Month 11 Day 28, then, it *might* work. Course that would also assume that Hammas was willing to give up the core part of their fight which is to return the land known as Isreal to the people that have been there for 500+ years.

The only real solution to all of this that I can see is:
1) All Palestinian groups recognize Isreal as a country accoridng to the pre-1962 borders.
2) Isreal De-Annexes all settlements outside the 1962 borders.. Those cities will become part of Palestine or Gaza and the residents will be citizens of Palestine or Gaza.
3) The West Bank will be officially endorsed as a sovereign state known as Palestine
4) The Gaza Strip will be officially endorsed as a sovereign state known as Gaza

5 relatively simple things in principle... Course, it will never happen.


[edit on 6-15-2009 by rogerstigers]

Its about time Occupied Palestin showed it a bit more respect.

reply to post by Sky watcher


Sky watcher got it pretty much right with their post. Unfortunately, the people here that hate Israel for anti-semitic (admitted or not) or other reasons, will never allow themselves to see that.



[edit on 6/15/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by rogerstigers


Dude... I'd like you to meet my friend...

Arab Mendacity.



All your 'reasoning' can not mask the fact that this is a war of extermination.

The Arab rhetoric can't hide that little tidbit which is the Arab approach in words and deeds.

The only REAL fact in dispute is why the West doesn't acknowledge it.

It is so bizarre the way 'settlements' MUST be removed.

Can't hide that that is CLEANSING.

ALL the Arab claims are pure nonsense.

Tough to swallow, eh?

reply to post by golemina


Yeah very tough to swallow how anyone can condone driving people off of land they have been on for hundreds of years just to put other people in their place who have absolutely no respect for the original inhabitants.