NYC to gas 2,000 geese

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I agree. The only thing is that it would take awhile. A thousand years is a short time in evolutionary terms, but a LONG time for us. Unfortunately, us humans have changed the world in a way such that natural balances aren't working the way they normally would.

Take New York, since this seems to be the area of the issue. In a natural forest with many predators and prey, it would work out fine. In a concrete forest where the biggest predators are airplanes and the birds have adapted to feed off of the little vegetation in the area by uprooting grasses, I don't know if it would happen. If geese were not flock birds, and were more solitary, I would say to leave it alone. But the flocks function as single organisms and they are difficult to control.

The way these birds are adapting is only making them more destructive. Say, they put up lights or structures to ward away birds. We know that they do this by airports. The birds adapt to get used to these things. They get used to the noise. They're evolving great, really. But they're damaging the flora and other birds in the area are competing for resources. In theory it could cause to extinction of other species. According to Darwin, this would actually be a good thing. I kind of agree, except that these birds can carry diseases and cause problems for other species in the meantime. In small numbers or even normal numbers, this is fine. But in tens of thousands, um, it's excessive.

And we want to study the other species around and we want them to survive. That's why we support other endangered organisms, even if they've been proven to just not be evolving or adapting quickly enough.

But that is my perspective. The true reason is probably because of the planes, and that's stupid. I think they should develop a way to keep the geese safely away from airports, that's all.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I'm going to clarify one more time:

I don't know politics or the motives behind this plan. If it's for birdstrikes, that's not right and there are many better ways to deal with that issue. I do know that Canadian Geese are classified by many environmental organizations and ecological protection organizations as Invasive Species.

Ok let me clarify one more time....

They are not wanting to kill these birds because they are invasive. They want to kill them because they get in the way of rich men trying to make more money. End of story. Or can you correct me and show me where they say they are doing it because they are invasive? Because I cant seem to find that anywhere in the news article.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I agree with everything you said. They are adapting and destroying what little natural resources remain for them to consume, and by doing so, are killing off the birds and other animal species that actually live in the area. Due to that fact, I do see how population control would be necessary.

However, since we are the reason there are so few resources left in the area because of our need to pave over the natural landscape everywhere we turn, I see it as very hypocritical of us to kill these geese or any other animal that "destroys" a habitat when we are doing the same thing.

No matter what the true reason for gassing these geese - whether it be for the airplanes or because they are invasive - I think humans just need to stay out of it and let nature do what it always has done and always will do. Our obsession with playing God has gone too far.

[edit on 6/11/09 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I'm sure that the true reason is because of the planes. I'm positive. Just because other areas are affected more by the invasive issue and ecologists don't usually get as much support as fear-mongers (such as "A bird will fly into your engine and you will crash and die, so gas them" versus "This isn't the best for the environment to have these birds adapting to everything, their population is exploding, let's reduce it to a normal level.")

I think it's too late to let nature take over on some things. We've messed up things by relocating species, polluting, destroying habitats... what nature is left to take over? We can't just leave things alone without helping to fix what we've done.

NYC is just a joke, honestly. It's like I said, a concrete city. Everyone revels in that park, but the natural environment is so reduced... It's because our population and influence as a species has exploded more than I think it should have. So we destroyed the habitats and ecosystems in order to accommodate us.

But you agree with me? I'm half-amazed, haha.

Novus, it is nice when someone else sees it too.
I agree with both of you.
Theres got to be a better way is all.
Once again, killin stuff aint always the best answer.
Thank you for your thoughts!

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
We can't just leave things alone without helping to fix what we've done.

The problem is, when humans try to fix things we end up destroying it more. Just look at the economy.

I say we just stop now and see if nature can work it out. I know that will never happen, but what ever nature would do to fix it certainly couldn't be any worse than what we do.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
But you agree with me? I'm half-amazed, haha.

Yeah, it's surprising, I know.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I just have one more comment.

I think that if nature could fix itself, it would need to do so without us here. Or with less of us. Because we're all not going to be like "Oops, we messed up, let's stop polluting and stop cutting down rainforest and see if it heals itself."

We're going to keep making mistakes. So we need to just not be here. Or, people need to stand up to one another and say "I know it costs extra but you're hurting the planet, so stop doing this or that."

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
So we need to just not be here.

I'm all for it! Lets go!

If nature can't fix it with us here, then I'm not sure why we think we can fix it.

Sooo...lets go! Asteroid, cataclysmic supervolcanic eruption, incurable airborne disease with a 100% mortality rate that is resistant to even the private stash of vaccines the elitists have, SOMETHING!

Gotta love us humans eh? Just Kill it! Yeah, that'll sort it out! That's our answer to everything.

And we still think we've got more than two brain cells to rub together. Poor geese

How's about we actually use the grey matter we've been gifted with to work a solution?

It's like some kind of geese holocaust they're proposing here!

Why don't they catch the geese and slaughter them properly and cook them?
More waste of resources.
Imagine having a roast goose day for homeless people?
Plastic brain dead moronic drones.

I thought these birds were Federally protected!? My office complex in Florida has to shut down several of the entrances, because the geese move in and get defensive of their nests in winter. It is illegal to disturb the nests, or harrass the geese, so we have to use alternate entrances.

I once got called in the office, because somebody thought I was chasing one on my motorcycle. I didn't even see one, but it must have been flying near me after work and someone saw it.

So: Are they endangered or not? I work for the state, they should know, but if New York can kill them, and they are an invasive species, then they can't be endangered?

This is very sad. Canadian geese are highly emotional creatures that bond very tightly with their lifelong mates and their extended family members.

I am surprised they are not protected by the migratory bird act. Human's are such disgustingly callous animals. Humans are threatened once and they go on a mass killing spree.

reply to post by Sonya610


They are protected! According to everyone in my office complex. I am searching now to verify. We have signs near the nesting areas that say it is a Federal Offense to disturb or harrass the geese.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I guess if it's the Feds doing the disturbing though, then they'll break they're own rules.

What gets me is that no one even died in that Hudson river plane. So we make up for it by taking lives? Birdstrike can be bad, but it's not hugely common. Surely they can come up with a way to protect the engines from birds better?

Canadian Geese have been a major problem in the town where my parents live for years. They were going to hire people to shoot them, then gas them, then the Schenectady County Airport/Stratton ANG Base killed some. Now they just hire a Border Collie to chase them away. This site pretty much covers the saga up until 2007, though it does not seem to be updated any more.

More info on that whole situation can be found with a quick Google.

reply to post by Sonya610


Yes yes well maybe you should go feed your veggie food to the starving people who have no food?

www.wildgoosechasers.com...

Here is a link that says they are protected. I read on another site by Ohio State University that they do issue special permits for trapping or shooting them during fall and winter months.

It says they eat 3 lbs of grass per day, and deposit 1-2 lbs of waste per goose per day. We have about 2 dozen that stay here for several months. That is a couple of hundred pounds of goose s*it on our cars, sidewalks, and parking lots!

I think they are beautiful, but we are surrounded by wetlands, surely they could move out of the city!

Originally posted by getreadyalreadyThey are protected! According to everyone in my office complex. I am searching now to verify. We have signs near the nesting areas that say it is a Federal Offense to disturb or harrass the geese.

I believe that primarily applies to nesting. It is legal to hunt them if they are not nesting. Plus they molt in the summer and lose their ability to fly for a while.

We had some at our office complex too and I became very attached and did a lot of research on them. They are so fascinating, their daughters from years past come back to nest and raise their babies with their mothers, they truly have very deep bonds.

Originally posted by CaptainCaveMan
Yes yes well maybe you should go feed your veggie food to the starving people who have no food?

You can give your food to them if you like. I will give it to the geese.

Originally posted by Sonya610
This is very sad. Canadian geese are highly emotional creatures that bond very tightly with their lifelong mates and their extended family members.

Fascinating, if what you say is true, then monogamy would be much more successful among these birds than it is in humans.

I'm not entirely sure what that should tell us, but it is very interesting.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
Fascinating, if what you say is true, then monogamy would be much more successful among these birds than it is in humans.

I'm not entirely sure what that should tell us, but it is very interesting.

Oh yes, 100% monogamous. They court for a while before officially pairing, and will try out different partners until they find a good match. When they are ready they "officially" become mates via a ritual (not just sex) and they stay partnered for life.

Emotions are primarily hormones, and many other animals are much better at lifelong bonding. Rats are promiscuous, Prarie Voles are extremely monogamous, thanks to oxytocin receptors. If you modify rats so they are as susceptable to oxytocin they become monogamous too. Same thing works in humans, and humans have never been truly monogamous.