NYC to gas 2,000 geese, page 3

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

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I agree. The only thing is that it would take awhile. A thousand years is a short time in evolutionary terms, but a LONG time for us. Unfortunately, us humans have changed the world in a way such that natural balances aren't working the way they normally would.

Take New York, since this seems to be the area of the issue. In a natural forest with many predators and prey, it would work out fine. In a concrete forest where the biggest predators are airplanes and the birds have adapted to feed off of the little vegetation in the area by uprooting grasses, I don't know if it would happen. If geese were not flock birds, and were more solitary, I would say to leave it alone. But the flocks function as single organisms and they are difficult to control.

The way these birds are adapting is only making them more destructive. Say, they put up lights or structures to ward away birds. We know that they do this by airports. The birds adapt to get used to these things. They get used to the noise. They're evolving great, really. But they're damaging the flora and other birds in the area are competing for resources. In theory it could cause to extinction of other species. According to Darwin, this would actually be a good thing. I kind of agree, except that these birds can carry diseases and cause problems for other species in the meantime. In small numbers or even normal numbers, this is fine. But in tens of thousands, um, it's excessive.

And we want to study the other species around and we want them to survive. That's why we support other endangered organisms, even if they've been proven to just not be evolving or adapting quickly enough.

But that is my perspective. The true reason is probably because of the planes, and that's stupid. I think they should develop a way to keep the geese safely away from airports, that's all.

reply to post by ravenshadow13

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I agree with everything you said. They are adapting and destroying what little natural resources remain for them to consume, and by doing so, are killing off the birds and other animal species that actually live in the area. Due to that fact, I do see how population control would be necessary.

However, since we are the reason there are so few resources left in the area because of our need to pave over the natural landscape everywhere we turn, I see it as very hypocritical of us to kill these geese or any other animal that "destroys" a habitat when we are doing the same thing.

No matter what the true reason for gassing these geese - whether it be for the airplanes or because they are invasive - I think humans just need to stay out of it and let nature do what it always has done and always will do. Our obsession with playing God has gone too far.

[edit on 6/11/09 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

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I'm sure that the true reason is because of the planes. I'm positive. Just because other areas are affected more by the invasive issue and ecologists don't usually get as much support as fear-mongers (such as "A bird will fly into your engine and you will crash and die, so gas them" versus "This isn't the best for the environment to have these birds adapting to everything, their population is exploding, let's reduce it to a normal level.")

I think it's too late to let nature take over on some things. We've messed up things by relocating species, polluting, destroying habitats... what nature is left to take over? We can't just leave things alone without helping to fix what we've done.

NYC is just a joke, honestly. It's like I said, a concrete city. Everyone revels in that park, but the natural environment is so reduced... It's because our population and influence as a species has exploded more than I think it should have. So we destroyed the habitats and ecosystems in order to accommodate us.

But you agree with me? I'm half-amazed, haha.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

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I just have one more comment.

I think that if nature could fix itself, it would need to do so without us here. Or with less of us. Because we're all not going to be like "Oops, we messed up, let's stop polluting and stop cutting down rainforest and see if it heals itself."

We're going to keep making mistakes. So we need to just not be here. Or, people need to stand up to one another and say "I know it costs extra but you're hurting the planet, so stop doing this or that."

reply to post by Sonya610

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They are protected! According to everyone in my office complex. I am searching now to verify. We have signs near the nesting areas that say it is a Federal Offense to disturb or harrass the geese.

reply to post by getreadyalready

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I guess if it's the Feds doing the disturbing though, then they'll break they're own rules.

What gets me is that no one even died in that Hudson river plane. So we make up for it by taking lives? Birdstrike can be bad, but it's not hugely common. Surely they can come up with a way to protect the engines from birds better?

Canadian Geese have been a major problem in the town where my parents live for years. They were going to hire people to shoot them, then gas them, then the Schenectady County Airport/Stratton ANG Base killed some. Now they just hire a Border Collie to chase them away. This site pretty much covers the saga up until 2007, though it does not seem to be updated any more.

More info on that whole situation can be found with a quick Google.

reply to post by Sonya610

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Yes yes well maybe you should go feed your veggie food to the starving people who have no food?

www.wildgoosechasers.com...

Here is a link that says they are protected. I read on another site by Ohio State University that they do issue special permits for trapping or shooting them during fall and winter months.

It says they eat 3 lbs of grass per day, and deposit 1-2 lbs of waste per goose per day. We have about 2 dozen that stay here for several months. That is a couple of hundred pounds of goose s*it on our cars, sidewalks, and parking lots!

I think they are beautiful, but we are surrounded by wetlands, surely they could move out of the city!

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