Yep, It's Thermite! So Much for the "Oxygen" Excuse

Ah but to CONFIRM its therm*te, it should have been tested in an oxygen-free environment. I guess Jones doesnt know that adding air to it still doesnt prove its therm*te. Once again, a flawed test which is at best inconclusive. Therm*te should be able to fire up in zero oxygen environment. Then he'd have something. but he didnt. Of course blowing air on the sample with fire will make the flame hotter, but had he used zero-oxygen, he'd have something. So still flawed. Even if he wanted to copy the other test by Tillotson, it still doesnt confirm therm*te because it was done in the presence of oxygen. Logically, when you want to prove something that can be ignited in both oxygen and oxygen-free environments, you should test both. He did not and therefor inconclusive.

Also finding oxygen in the sample doesnt really mean anything. What is being said is if it is therm*te, then it should be able to burn without oxygen present. Jones didnt do it. So no proof.

[edit on 6/3/2009 by GenRadek]

Originally posted by turbofan
reply to post by mmiichael

 

Sorry to tell you but your 'friend' has been pushing the "Oxygen" excuse
which has already been slammed. I think yuo should start reading
information from professional scientists, rather than "pterdine".

If "pterdine" really wants to engage with Jones, I will pay-pal him
$50.00 if he registers on that site with his real info and puts Jones
to rest.

The $50.00 cash incentive is open to anyone that can successfully debate
Jones using their real ID and win their case.

I am not 'pteridine's spokesman. He's just an ATS member with a demonstrably bonafide background in advanced chemistry. And he has shown the many errors in Jones's procedures and unwarranted conclusions.

He'd probably laugh at the $50 incentive. Is that a joke?

Guess even $100 is a lot of money for a professor fired from a Mormon College.


Mike

yes great evidence, except i told a bunch of non believers that this information was out there and being released and they still didnt want to hear anything about 9/11 and how it didnt happen how the government says.

i have an obvious question - for the proponents of this ` nano thermite claim ` - how the heck did the ` nano thermite ` survive the fire , collapse - post coloapse continuted fire - post collapse application of fire fighting water , post collapse rain etc etc

i have personal experience of the use of " thermate " tm the commercial welding product - and its very VERY sensetive to ` sloppy handling / storage degredation `

leaving the lid off a 500gms container for a bank holiday weekend caused marked reduction in preformance

given that the ` nano thermite claim ` specifies grain size far smaller than any in commercial use - and oxidation rate is a product of syrface area / volume

then the notion that thier was identifiable nano thermite to test - strikes me as odd

Originally posted by rogerstigers
All the more reason to keep an eye on this and see how it holds up to peer review. This should be handled with scientific rigor.

Great.

WHAT "peer review"? What "peers" in the chemical/engineering/analysis field have reviewed this, besides a bunch of truthers and some wannabe Chuck Yeagers from PfT? How many professional journals has this declarative paper been published in, beside the pay-to-be-printed one? What sort of vetting and fact-checking process has this gone through?

I've been reading about and following Jones for years now, and the fact that he is no longer working at/teaching at BYU speaks volumes.

Originally posted by GenRadek
Therm*te should be able to fire up in zero oxygen environment. Then he'd have something.

This sounds eerily reminiscent of the "argument" that to have been controlled demolitions, the buildings would have had to have been conventional controlled demolitions. Do you also believe that is true?

Anything that can get the job done, will get the job done. Whether or not it is possible for you to think critically and "outside of the box," the fact still remains that a eutectic compound (like nanothermite) melted steel in WTC2 and WTC7, and FEMA analyzed this steel chemically and reported all this in appendix C of their report, and were unable to explain where it came from. It corroded and melted the steel so severely, not even conventional thermite could cause what happened to them.

Given these new studies a few years later, I think now we know what this stuff was and where it came from.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by bsbray11]

Excellent work OP.


This finding should be on every front page of every news outlet in this country right now.

What this says to me is not only is the official story complete B.S......but it says the official story is a known and fabricated lie.


Someone has some serious explaining to do.

Star and flag

Originally posted by mmiichael

I'm sure most reading this will not care but Dr Jones fraudulent claims have been exposed on a number of threads right here at ATS and elsewhere.


Mike

Intersesting. I was reading a thread on Richard Gage yesterday and it so happens that 2 companies not affiliated with Jones tested the samples and found the same thing(s). This means his claims that you say are fraudulent are now backed in duplicate by outside sources.

Also ad hominem doesent fly big here, and making claims w/o sources is also considered substandard.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
i have an obvious question - for the proponents of this ` nano thermite claim ` - how the heck did the ` nano thermite ` survive the fire , collapse - post coloapse continuted fire - post collapse application of fire fighting water , post collapse rain etc etc

Great question. Answers are:

- This grade of thermite ignites at temperatures higher than jet fuel/office fires can produce. The particular ignition temperature of this type of thermite
can be found in the paper (if you had actually read it, you would know this).

- The remainder of the quote can be summed up by stating the iron
oxide contains the oxidizer to supply oxygen to the mixture. This
is why thermite is used in under water welding applications, etc.
Too bad your GL friends with big Chemistry backgrounds didn't tell you
this. I am ... shoc...ked...

i have personal experience of the use of " thermate " tm the commercial welding product - and its very VERY sensetive to ` sloppy handling / storage degredation `

Must be magic thermite. Read above.

Would you like to tackle Jones with your claims? I can arrange that
and pay you $50.00 for your troubles.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by turbofan]

I LOVE IT! The debunkers are CRYING because they can’t dispute the science. Hey, debunkers its time for you all to WAKE UP! The OS is falling apart the lies are being exposed. It is confirmed explosives were used to bring the WTC down, and the debunkers cannot dispute it.

reply to post by trebor451


Science is science not matter what side you believe.

Disprove the paper, or concede.

Nice work! The Truth must come out about 911!

reply to post by mmiichael


I sent your 'friend' a U2U. No reply yet.

How much would you like to take 15 minutes to create an account and
post a message on a forum to debate Jones?

I've got more than $50.00...but sorry, not a cool million like Randi.

What''s your price? I'll see what I can do.

Originally posted by tkwasny
Could the hijackers knowingly carry on thermite to ensure the job got finished?

Much like filling a hollow point bullet with poison (or mercury). If the bullet doesn't hit a vital organ, the poisoning eventually will finish off the kill.

On that recent video of the member of the American Institute of Architects(do a quick search)-
he mentions that nano-thermite is made only in extremely high-tec lab conditions- not some garage workshop explosive creation, making it almost impossible for the hijackers to be carrying any at all.

Great post- really fantastic job on emailing and then publicising- as stated before this needs to be spread around as much as possible!

Originally posted by BlackOps719

Excellent work OP.


This finding should be on every front page of every news outlet in this country right now.

What this says to me is not only is the official story complete B.S......but it says the official story is a known and fabricated lie.


Someone has some serious explaining to do.

Star and flag

The implications are tremendous, and that is an understatement.

Driving around here in Tucson Arizona I just saw a printed sign on a very busy main road called Broadway. Thousand of cars will pass this place today. It said in very readable letters (at 35mph):

"BUSTED! Thermite found in WTC dust! 911 Inside Job!"

Seeing this sign made me feel good in a very strange way. Is the truth leaking out?

TPTB are counting on the McDonalds/Burger King crowd to ignore any info contradicting Big Brother News Media. The sheeple are the greatest percentage of the population. BUT... it will only take a few sparks to ignite this idea and the squeaky wheels will be heard. I will be forwarding this new study about thermite all around and I will be talking it up.

I doubt that it was Bush's idea (he couldn't walk and chew gum simultaneously) but he was definitely in on it. Illuminati? Hmmm. This was part of the huge MONEY GRAB and POWER PLAY that sent our best to fight and die in the mideast as well as playing a major role in the current world money scandals/crises. All pre-planned... but did they forget to cover their thermite tracks?

reply to post by bsbray11


I think you missed what I said. Any sort of alleged "therm*te" is suppose to be able to ignite in zero oxygen. In order to prove or at least give another check mark towards ID'ing it as a therm*te-like material, he should have tested it in both oxygen and oxygen-free environments. Therm*te, as it has been repeated to infinity before, can ignite in a zero-oxygen environment. This way if the sample ignited and burned in the oxygen-free test, he'd have more conclusive evidence of it being a certain therm*te material. However he did not and just used air blowing over it, which will cause any organics in the sample to burn and appear as a therm*te reaction, when all its doing is combusting in air. Ergo its inconclusive and any intelligent, self-respecting scientist would know this and throw out the test results as they are flawed. He did not and continues to press with it even though it is obviously flawed. Which again makes me question if he is for real, or in it for fame at any cost or just plain incompetent. Also just because he has a doctorate doesnt mean he's incapable of making mistakes or being bad at what he does. Remember, what do you call a medical student who graduates at the end of his class? Doctor.

reply to post by impressme


Explosives? I thought it was some sort of sooperdooper magic paint on therm*te?

reply to post by GenRadek


I agree with your point. The original tests are not necessarily wrong, but they are not conclusive. He really should do the tests in an oxygen free environment just to lay this stuff to rest.

reply to post by GenRadek


You just repeated the same thing you posted earlier.

Instead of also repeating the same thing I posted earlier, please re-read my post and consider that I am actually posting something that you aren't addressing, namely, "What's in a name?"

Originally posted by mmiichael
Guess even $100 is a lot of money for a professor fired from a Mormon College.

Gotta love when people come in these threads and either post things about something they don't know what they're talking about, or deliberately distorting the facts (disinformation).

Firstly, I don't know what religion has to do with anything. Who cares if the college was mormon, muslim, christian, scientology? I think it only matters to the religiously prejudiced.

Secondly, and your "buddy" ptderline was also corrected on more than one occasion, Dr. Jones was not fired from BYU. He retired, effective January 1, 2007.

en.wikipedia.org...

You should be researched and know what you're talking about before you make posts. I won't go into the purposeful part of you possibly knowing he retired, but you wanted to attack him further by saying he was fired.