this should scare the heck out of you...

For all of you "Obama inherited the problem" justifiers, here's something to ponder:

If (heaven forbid) your parent or spouse passes away and you are left to handle the estate, are YOU not required to PAY OFF ALL DEBT and TAXES first, before collecting what's LEFT?

Did he inherit it, yes. But at least it took Bush 8 years. It's taken Obama 120 DAYS to double it.

The timeframe more than the amount should scare the pants off of everybody.

Simple solution.

Current system is not working.

When something doesn't work we have two options.

1) Fix it, but we all know this hasn't happened whoever is in office.

2) Scrap it, look for a new system

Or there is a third options, pretend everything is going to be fine, bury our heads in the sand and let the government run up more debt.

Click here for more information.

whether obama and bush are both just puppets working for the same people is something which may well be true. but unless you can prove that obama created all that debt in the first place then he DID inherit it.

i hate how this site always gets dragged down to class politics. i'm nwilling to bet obama has made some terrible decisions for america so far and will continue to do so. i also woul;dn't be surprised if he was nwo and all that jazz. what can be said is that bush was certainly an awful president himself, so it's very tiresome how people will blindly support one or the other. if we're honest the republicans were shocking and whilst i expect the democrats will do a better job, they will certainly not be a massive deal better themselves.

it just bores me silly seeing all the conservatives who insist on spamming every thread with remarks about how obama is selling away all america's freedoms and getting them into masses of debt. you BET he is, but that's only work on top of what the awful republican party did previously. wake up and smell the cheese. it stinks.

one day people will wake up and notice that so long as capitalism is the dominant force then economic crisis such as this will continue to pop out. they can't be stopped without moving towards socialism. so it's either accept that socialism has the answers to some of those questions (as if americans would ever do that in their perfect capitalist world) or stop complaining about the debt. because believe me you can't have it both ways.

and before you americans recoil in disgust and begin vommitting because someone used the word socialism, please be very clear in your understanding of what socialism is. in order to do that you need to read marx and engels because you will soon find the anti socialist propaganda which your media and leaders have been feeding you for so long doesn't match the definition of the actual word.

also try not to forget how america has been built on socialist principles already such as free, state-provided education, a police force, fire brigade etc. and look how bad it is to have those. how does it feel being 'robbed' through taxes to pay for the policeforce in an area which doesn't directly help you? it feels the same as paying for free health care for the country...absolutely FINE.

the sooner america snaps out of this backwards, stubborn, mentality about socialist policies the sooner it will mature into a country which is less reviled by the world.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Renegade Bison]

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Renegade Bison]

Nice find.... s+f

I guess it must get to a point where it's impossible to fix and has to be sorted via other means (war, rest etc).... time will tell.

reply to post by Renegade Bison


God, can't you even put the pipe down long enough to write? Obama HAS sold our gradchildren into economic slavery.

What will it take for you people to wake up? Stop blaming prior administrations for what your boy is doing - He's an NWO puppet, so what you think because he has a black face everything is perfect somehow?

I can see through your BS. You are a socialist and most likely NOT an American. Well I have news for you princess, AMERICANS are NOT socialists!

You may be, but I would bet anything that the blood of Americans gave you that freedom to think so and every night you go to sleep you should be thanking America that you are able to think freely as you do, but I suspect you only mock the very people that gave you life.



[edit on 28-5-2009 by SaraThustra]

not saying we should become uber socialist...but perhaps 1 tech field for 5 years government owned, not interfering with any prebuilt business, etc...but lets say for the next 5 years, the US gov puts out...oh...a VR system...holographic entertainment system (HES). and uses the money for debt...sells for about 2k a pop...we would be debt free within a few years, get a surplus, and have a new booming economy (software companys would bank with a new tech like that, universities charging for live stream which would be a fraction of the cost of the university but allow for millions more to "attend" classes, etc).

once the 5 is up, have a royalty fee going to the government for each system sold...

there is no nat. sec. threat to release holographic tech, it would become one of the most powerful sedatives for the population, and create supereconomys (ok, the moniter/tv manufacturers may suffer, but it would create way more jobs than it would eliminate...not to mention that those industries would end up simply changing to create a better "chamber" anyhow)

anyhow, just a thought...not a big socialism fan, but I see the need for a bit of it here and there to become stable.

thoughts?

reply to post by soficrow


A big part was under Clinton's 8 year reign as well. Do not be quick to blame Bush for everything. The fact remains, since Obama has spent more in his first days of his reign then Bush in his years, that Obama OWNS this now.



[edit on 28-5-2009 by arcnaver]

What would happen if Americans said 'We're not paying debts anymore?'

Would the Rothschilds invade America (or try to lol)

Or the Chinese, or anybody who invested in America?

Anyways, it won't be pretty when America's next generation of children finds out they're slaves.

It won't be pretty at all.

Originally posted by lpowell0627
For all of you "Obama inherited the problem" justifiers, here's something to ponder:

If (heaven forbid) your parent or spouse passes away and you are left to handle the estate, are YOU not required to PAY OFF ALL DEBT and TAXES first, before collecting what's LEFT?

Did he inherit it, yes. But at least it took Bush 8 years. It's taken Obama 120 DAYS to double it.

The timeframe more than the amount should scare the pants off of everybody.

you say it as though obama has just decided to get the country into more debt for a laugh. the plan to borrow more to help get the country out of debt is a highly risky and contentious one but is a method in itself which MAY (i personally doubt it) be the best long term solution.

if you walk into a situation of massive debt, unemployment etc there are a few possible solutions. rightly or wrongly (likke i said i expect wrongly) obama has taken action which whilst it is bad news now they HOPE it will be the best option in the long run. nobody knows what the best option is because nobody can see the future. if he hadn't borrowed more and the recession had been even worse then perhaps in the long run it wouldn't have been the best option.

what i'm saying is in your post you ignore a very complicated and delicate situation and reduce it to something ultimately simple, that is something it is certainly not. the throwing of money at the problem is not what i would have done, but frankly all these people criticising have very little better suggestions themselves. afterall what IS the answer? because if you know then you know something which nobody else in the world does. some experts say don't do it this way, some say do.

so i think it's exceptionally short-sighted of you to just reduce such a complex and unknown situation down to just HE'S BORROWING LOTS OF MONEY FAST. THIS MUST BE BAD NEWS. as much as it might well be bad news, and my hunch says yes, it might well be the most effective thing he could have done.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
not saying we should become uber socialist...but perhaps 1 tech field for 5 years government owned, not interfering with any prebuilt business, etc...but lets say for the next 5 years, the US gov puts out...oh...a VR system...holographic entertainment system (HES). and uses the money for debt...sells for about 2k a pop...we would be debt free within a few years, get a surplus, and have a new booming economy (software companys would bank with a new tech like that, universities charging for live stream which would be a fraction of the cost of the university but allow for millions more to "attend" classes, etc).

once the 5 is up, have a royalty fee going to the government for each system sold...

there is no nat. sec. threat to release holographic tech, it would become one of the most powerful sedatives for the population, and create supereconomys (ok, the moniter/tv manufacturers may suffer, but it would create way more jobs than it would eliminate...not to mention that those industries would end up simply changing to create a better "chamber" anyhow)

anyhow, just a thought...not a big socialism fan, but I see the need for a bit of it here and there to become stable.

thoughts?

yeah it's an interesting idea. perhaps a state owned company (or multiple companies) is the way to get more money into the government to help finance the debt. i'm not entirely clear on fiat but i think they are a state supported company and seem to be doing ok during the recession from what i can tell. obviously the problem is when a company would be more of an expense and a cost than an asset. it's all about being responsible

by creating more renewable energy and selling it back to the grid they could profit through that whilst making the country less fossil fuel dependent.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by Renegade Bison]

You guys are over-reacting, we've been in this kind of debt and rising for a long time, and almost every other country is in the same boat.

You know it makes me laugh everytime the public raise the American debt issue. They know the problem exists... they know the consequences... they will have some kind of plan but noone really knows what it is...

Well historically japan tried the same thing we are trying during the beginning of their great recession, and now its dragged on for decades. And if you'll compare our last great depression to this one, we tried much the same then as well....insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

As to Obama inheriting this....as another poster stated, even before his presidency, as a senator his voting regularly lined up with the neo-cons as well, so he was right there building it up the whole time.

NOW....as for that person above stating we need some of Obama's socialism... REALLY?! are you KIDDING ME?! NOTHING hes done has been socialist so far, NOT a damn thing. He has been catering to the corporate sector just like every republicrat president before him, and he will continue to do so. He has nothing in him that looks for socialism, not remotely! I dont know where these people get off painting him with a socialist paintbrush... it must be because most americans have no clue what socialism is and just call anything they dont like "socialism". What we have, and what he has been supporting, is monopolistic oligarchy, or as i like to call it, Corporate dictatorship. They can take our money, and do what they like with it, buy up their competition, whatever, and we have no say. That is the exact OPPOSITE of socialism, which actually is a system where the people as a whole own all the means of production (not the greedy corporate elite) AND the people have a real say in government (much more like democracy than our false corporate control).

See?
Socialism (masses own means of production, all have say in government)

Our system (corporations use lobbyists to bribe congressmen to pass laws benefiting corporate power, people have little or no say in what government does other than which wealthy elite zombie will be the figurehead, meanwhile wealthy elite owners manipulate law and take advantage of workers keeping majority of country in pseudo serfdom that our ancestors would have revolted against)

Stop confusing the two.

No. No. No.

Everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective.

This website reminds me of one thing: Vegas Baby!!!

This looks like one of the progressive slot machines that are multi-casino run. I personally get excited watching those numbers going up up and up!

Just means a bigger payout in the end! Jackpot!!!

Oh wait...

What ever happened to those trillions that were used as a 'stimulus' to the economy? Just vanished into thin air?

Could it be that Presidents are too busy (read manipulated) that they just don't have any time left to spare just to stop and think things through?

During his campaigning, I believed Obama had the internal foresight to make decisions in favour of the people of the country and not just to the rich elite. I'm beginning to see the strings being pulled on his arms.

Don't you just love those add ons that make life easier...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d21f27d286db.jpg[/atsimg]
It's a horrible site once you get it working though!! S+F

Originally posted by Chemley
Holy crap! That looks serious but I would like to see more "proof" as it were. I mean, how are they doing the various calculations. Although, I have seen debt numbers ranging from 3 - 99 trillion sssooooo... I am not sure "proof" really matters any more. At some point you just kind of throw up your hands and walk away

This website made me curious enough to reverse engineer these counters and look what I have found.

National Debt Counter
=====================

How does it work?
First of all it calculates the difference between the current time and 1st January 2009 23:13:55:12. This difference is calculated in terms of mili seconds (thousandth of a second). Roughly calculates to about 1243540153812 till today.

Now this big figure is multiplied with 4.344000E+001 and added to 1.089344E+013

and as the counter is displayed on the screen, it keeeps on adding 4344 to the number every 10th of a second.

This counter does not pick up its data from any data source, its just a actionscript program loop that keeps on adding number. Same is the case with the rest of the counters on this page.

If you try plugging off your internet cable or turning off your modem while you have this page in your web browser. You will see, that even while it is not connected through the internet, it still keeps on spitting out the figures.

The funny thing is that none of the counter is communicating with each other or taking any numbers from each other. All of these counter are just running numbers.

Our discussion here should not be on "debt load" but "what is this guy's purpose? He made this website, invested a lots of time in this. Why?" I am keen on knowing this.

Anybody?

An EMP will sort out this pesky debt. Billion, trillion, it's all just numbers on a computer screen. None of the money is real anyway.