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The mystery of IH870: the Ustica massacre

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posted on May, 18 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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On June 27, 1980, something tragic happened in the skies over Italy: something tragic and mysterious. Itavia airlines Flight 870 (IH870), scheduled from Guglielmo Marconi Airport in Bologna, to Palermo International Airport in Palermo, departed with two hours of delay, at 20.08 .


Status:
Date: 27 JUN 1980
Time: 20:59
Type: Douglas DC-9-15
Operator: Itavia
Registration: I-TIGI
C/n / msn: 45724/22
First flight: 1966
Total airframe hrs: 29544
Cycles: 45032
Engines: 2 Pratt & Whitney JT8D-7
Crew: Fatalities: 4 / Occupants: 4
Passengers: Fatalities: 77 / Occupants: 77
Total: Fatalities: 81 / Occupants: 81
Airplane damage: Written off
Airplane fate: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: 25 km (15.6 mls) NE off Ustica, Italy [Tyrrhenian Sea] (Atlantic Ocean)
Phase: En route (ENR)
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Bologna-Borgo Panigale Airport (BLQ/LIPE), Italy
Destination airport: Palermo-Punta Raisi Airport (PMO/LICJ), Italy
Flightnumber: 870


The airplane (McDonnell Douglas DC-9-15) in a photo taken eight years before accident

Timeline of events before and during the incident:
  • 20:08: IH870 takes off with two hours of delay; the filght takes place regularly and on time, at least until its last radio contact with Rome ATC, which occurred at 20: 58.
  • 21.04: called for permission to start descent Palermo, flight IH870 doesn't respond. Rome ATC reiterates calls in vain, and more unsuccessful attempts to contact IH870 are made from:
    -Air Malta flight KM153, (which follows the same route)
    -The military radar at Marsala
    -The control tower of Palermo.
  • 21.13: (time scheduled for arrival), still no responses from IH870.
  • 21:25: the command of Air Rescue HQ in Martina Franca was appointed to coordinate the researches:
    the 15th Storm at Ciampino, (HH-3F helicopters of the Air Rescue HQ) was alerted right after.
  • 21:55: takes off the first HH-3F and begins to scour the area of the alleged incident. The plane is now declared scattered.
    During the night several helicopters, planes and ships are involved in the research in the area.
    At sunrise, an helicopter crew spots, a few dozen miles north of Ustica, an oily spot: right after, first wreckage and dead bodies are spotted as well:
    it's the confirmation that an airplane crashed in an area of the Tyrrhenian Sea where the sea depth exceeds three thousand meters (9,800 feet).

    One of the first bodies spotted after Flight 870 crash
    ATC transcript Itavia Flight 870 Ustica - 27 JUN 1980
    Excerpt of ATC transcription of the June 27, 1980 accident of Itavia Flight 870, a DC-9 near Ustica. ATC Readout as published in Italian by VOLARE, n.40, year IV. English translation provided by Enrico Zaffiri.
    The reader of these transcripts is cautioned that the transcription of a CVR tape is not a precise science but is the best possible product from a group investigative effort.


    F/O : IH870's First Officer radio transmissions ACC: Control Centers
    Time | Source | Content
    20:56 | F/O | Rome, Itavia 870. 115 miles to PRS (Raisi VOR, near Palermo), maintaining 250.
    20:56 | Rome ACC | Roger, Itavia 870. An estimate for Raisi ?
    20:56 | F/O | We estimate Raisi at 19.
    20:56 | Rome ACC | 870, roger. Cleared to Raisi VOR, no delay expected. Call back for descent.
    20:56 | F/O | To Raisi, no delay. We'll call you for descent, 870.
    20:56 | Rome ACC | That is correct.
    20:59:45 - Last transponder answer from the IH870 is recorded at the far southern end of the Ciampino civil radar range. IH870 is recorded at FL250, about 50 miles north of Ustica island.
    21:04 | Rome ACC | Itavia 870, when ready, cleared to 110, report leaving 250 and passing 150.(No answer)
    21:04 | Rome ACC | Itavia 870, Rome (No answer)
    21:04 | Rome ACC | Itavia 870, Rome, do you read ? (No answer).
    Two other traffic are requested to relay the calls to IH870, but no answer is ever get from the DC-9.


    Radar

    Animation of the radar tracking (at double speed, 3 secs instead of six for each antenna round) showing the last minutes of flight. The DC-9 is directed to the south and there is a wind at around 200km / h blowing in direction south-east. Note the two echoes with no identification on the left: according to some experts it is the track of a plane, according to other ones it's false plot, errors of the radar. The word "IH870" disappears with the last response from the transponder. Investigators focused also on the double plot after the disaster, suspected of being traces of other aircrafts in flight. These plots could also have been determined, it was assumed, by the main structure of the plane during its fall, and by "chaff" caused by debris: but many doubts remain for the plot to the west of the point of collapse, hardly attributable to scrap that fall since it would be inconsistent with the direction of Mistral wind (which was blowing, as said, towards South-East).

    Map showing the locations of:
  • Bologna (departure airport)
  • Palermo (destination airport)
  • Ciampino (radar)
  • Marsala (radar)
  • Poggio Ballone (radar)
  • Crash site (39°43 N - 12°55 E)


    Fiumicino radar track - June 27th, 1980 - (20,58.24 - 21,02.39 local time)

    Ciampino/Marconi printout (20,58.11 - 21,01.09 local time)

    Fiumicino radar track - June 27th, 1980 - (21,01.14 - 21,02.39 local time)

    Ciampino/Marconi-Selenia Radar printouts & plottings:
    Selenia 1 extractor (txt, 4Mb)
    Plotting - All
    Plotting - Primary only
    Selenia 2 extractor (txt, 4Mb)
    Plotting - All
    Plotting - Primary only
    Marconi 3 extractor (txt, 4Mb)
    Plotting - All
    Plotting - Primary only
    Marconi 4 extractor (txt, 4Mb)
    Plotting - All
    Plotting - Primary only

    Marsala Radar printouts:
    Selenia 1 extractor (xls, 2,5Mb)
    Selenia 1 extractor (zip, 585Kb)

    Track History Recording:
    20.30-21.22 (pdf, 549Kb)
    19.02-00.42 (pdf, 2,9Mb)


    Poggio Ballone Radar printout and plotting:
    Printout (xls, 1,26Mb)
    Plotting - All

    This incident has become very strange AFTER the first events: mysterious deaths, missing tapes, pages found to have been ripped from logs, people (including military) found to have both lied and omitted details to investigators.

    Timeline of events AFTER the incident (1980)

  • June 28th 1980
    At 7.25, an helicopter identifies a large dark stain of fuel. About four hours after, the Navy cruiser Andrea Doria retrieves the first corpses: during this first phase of retrieval, only 39 bodies over 81 will be found.
    The Roman HQ of Il Corriere della Sera, the most popular italian newspaper, receives an anonymous phone call claiming to be on behalf of Armed Revolutionary Group (NAR), which states that on board of DC9 there was Marco Affatigato, www.archivio900.it... an extreme right-wing terrorist, fugitive, linked to SISMI (Italian Military Secret Services). Only after many investigations the phone call will turn out to be a crock: investigations were made on each single passenger and crew member, and each one of them turned out to don't be involved in any serious crime (and Affatigato presence on board was completely ruled out since the day after). At around 6 PM the first possible explanations about the crash are spreaded: structural failure, unexpected anomaly in the values of pressurization, mid-air collision. The Itavia is accused to fly "air jalopy".
    The Transports Minister Rino Formica appoints a commission of inquiry, appointing the guide director of Alghero airport, Carlo Luzzatti, as team leader.

    IMPORTANT DETAIL:
    General Saverio Rana, president of the Italian aircraft registry, shows to the Minister Formica a copy of a path radar which indicates that the DC9 had an impact with a missile, a meteorite or other object, according to the minister Formica himself. Sadly, those data will never reach the public. Note also that the minister Formica didn't revealed this event but eight years after, to the weekly "L'espresso":



    Some hours after the incident occurred, i've called general Saverio Rana, at the time President of Italian Aviation Registry (hence the highest degree in the field of security of non military airplanes);
    he gave me straight an accurate information: he told me that near IH870 was tracked an UFO approaching it, and that right after the plane was STRUCK BY A MISSILE. Rana also clarified that those informations were coming straight from analysis of radar trackings and from sources within the military well known to him. I had the feeling that while he was sharing that with me, it wasn't his purpose to disclose them to the public (give the circumstances, it could fall into the military secret's field). Rana was a mate and a friend, i always fully trusted in him, and this is why, when i reported to the parliament about the developement of the investigations i've mentioned that the one of a missile was the MOST LIKELY" explanation.


    www.radioradicale.it...
    /qxfeb6
    ricerca.repubblica.it...

  • July 2nd, 1980
    The Consulate of Lybia in Palermo Publishes on the newspaper "L'Ora" an obituary:
    “The general consulate of Arab Giamahiria Libic Popular Socialist sincerely participate at the pain of the relatives of the victims of Ustica, and expresses all its solidarity to the President of Region SIcily and to the President of Ars fo this serious bereavement which has hit Sicily”.

    NOTE: we will see that also this detail is more important than it looks to be at first glance (see events of July 18th below).

  • July 3rd, 1980
    The Public Prosecutor's office in Rome receives the acts from Palermo and opens the investigations, charging the public prosecutor Giorgio Santacroce

  • July 18th, 1980
    On Sila mountains, Calabria region, the wreckage of a Libic MIG 23 are found. The cadaver of the pilot is in advanced rotting state and the first consensus is that the death should have occurred approx. twenty days before. The first explanation was that the MIG 23 managed to violate italian air space during “Natinad Demon Jam V”, a NATO operation which occurred between july 15th and 18th: but as said, the rotting state of the cadaver should have ruled it out. Incredibly enough, in the following autopsy has been stated that the death "likely occurred five days" (the autopsy was made on July 23rd, hence they basically stated that the rotting cadaver was of someone died... the same day)!
    Time after, as reported by "Il Corriere della sera",archiviostorico.corriere.it...
    the former CIA chief in Italy (Duane "Dewey" Clarridge) stated that "our men were on the place to investigate the wreckage four days BEFORE its retrieval according to official sources": and it isn't all. Clarridge also stated that "the body wasn't there, it was already put in some safe place in the awaiting for the "official" date of retrieval.


    Parts of the wreckage of libic MIG 23 crashed in Calabria


    Official retrieval of the wreckage of libic MIG 23 crashed in Calabria

    There's a couple of problems with the theory that the MIG 23 came from Lybia, though:

    THAT model of MIG 23 had a max. range of 600 KM (approx. 373 miles), which would mean, basically:

    The brightened area show the hypotetical range of the model of MIG 23 in question, assuming it took off from the closest points in Lybia: basically, there's a gap of approx. 130 miles between its max. range limit and the crash site

    NOT ONLY:
    - Warren Walters, one of the CIA men who inspected the MIG 23, when asked by the public prosecutor (Priore), refused to say what was the nationality of the MIG
    - The public prosecutor ordered an inspection on the carrier Saratoga
    - two experts, charged by the public prosecutor Priore, estabilished that during those months there was an ongoing training of libic pilots at the base of Decimomannu, Sardinia, Italy.

    What is known for sure is that they know everything about the MIG 23 and that they LIED since the real retrieval of the wreckage. It's also important to add that a second autopsy dated the death on the EXACT same day of IH870 crash.
    Last but not least, the MIG 13 was in flight on a RESTRICTED area:

    Air zones codes

  • October 3rd, 1980
    In the Military Aeronautic Radar Centre of Marsala the public prosecutor seizes the records related to the evening of June 27th.

  • November 25th, 1980
    An U.S. expert from National Transportation Safety Board, John Macidull (he also served with a federal board that reviewed the Challenger explosion in 1986 billnelson.senate.gov...), after analyzing Ciampino's radar tracks, concluded that, in the moment of the disaster, ANOTHER plane was flying next to IH870. According to Macidull, IH870 was struck by a missile launched by an unidentified aircraft spotted in the immediate closeness of it. The unidentified aircraft, crossed the area of the incident in direction West - East at hight speed (between 300 and 550 knots) approximately at the same moment the incident occurred, but he also added that the mid air collision (plane Vs. plane) could be ruled out.

  • December 17th, 1980
    The president of Itavia airlines, Aldo Davanzali, states to be sure that the plane was struck by a missile launched by some aircraft.

    Timeline of events AFTER 1980

    Wreckage recovery (videos from General Mario Cinti's archive, film editing by CIAK Video, Rieti):

    Part 1

    (click to open player in new window)


    Part 2

    (click to open player in new window)


    Part 3

    (click to open player in new window)


    Inspection of the Itavia DC9 wreckage stored in Pratica di Mare's hangar

    Part 1

    (click to open player in new window)

    Part 2

    (click to open player in new window)



    The damage occurred to Itavia DC9 (© Luigi Di Stefano)

    Left side - Top: reconstruction of the damage. Bottom: actual image of the wreckage

    Impact scheme

    Top: reconstruction of the corresponding damage to the right side; bottom, actual image of the wreckage

    Holes caused by fragments

    Fishy deaths of people related to the Ustica incident;


    • Marshal Mario Alberto Dettori: found hanged on March 31st 1987 in a manner defined by scientific police expert "unnatural", near Grosseto. Months before he was very conerned about the possible presence of Covert listening device in his house, and kept looking for them uninterruptly. There are indications that he was on duty on the evening of the disaster. He entrusted to his wife: "I am very upset ... It' a mess ... They will all end in jail." The judge who investigated on his death concluded: "The individual facts as their concatenation have not achieved, however, the degree of proof."
    • Marshal Franco Parisi: found hanged on December 21st 1995, was on duty the morning of 18 July 1980, the date of the MiG 23 crash on Sila. Wen he was interrogated about the story of the MiG, his account was found to be filled up with blatant contradictions; summoned to reappear in court, died a few days after receiving the summon. There is no evidence of murder.
    • Colonel Pierangelo Tedoldi: he died in a car crash on August 3rd 1980: he was going to take the command at Grosseto but this is the only link to the facts of Ustica.
    • Captain Maurizio Gari: heart attack, 9 May 1981; he was chief inspector at teh HQ of the Air Defense at the 21st CRAM Poggio Ballone: he was on duty on the evening of the massacre. The telephone records reveal a particular interest of the captain for the issue of the DC-9 and his testimony would have been some "very useful in the investigation" given the role covered by the centre under his command. However not connections have been found between this and the cause of death, which seems natural, despite his young age.
    • Giovanni Battista Finetti, Major of Grosseto : car crash, January 23rd 1983. It was general consensus that he was aware of what really happened the evening of the disaster. However, the incident which caused his death looks to be fortuitous.
    • Marshal Ugo Zammarelli: car crash, August 12th 1988. He had been employed by the SIOS in Cagliari (sios was the miliary internal secret service, replaced on 1997 by CII) but there are not proofs that he was aware of any secret regarding both the massacre or the fall of the MiG 23.
    • Colonels Mario Naldini and Ivo Nutarelli: Ramstein accident, 28 August 1988.
      On duty at the airport of Grosseto at the time, on the evening of June 27th were in flight on one of the F-104 that launched the general emergency alarm. They were certainly aware of the facts regarding IH870 crash. Their testimony would have been extremely useful in relation to the interrogation of the apprentice onboard with them that evening on the F-104: during the interrogatory the apprentice "appeared always terrified". However, it has to be considered far-fetched to orchestrate such an incident, with impredictable consequences (67 attendants lost their lives), in order to eliminate two witnesses.
    • Marshal Antonio Muzio: murder, February 1st 1991. He was on duty at the control tower of the airport of Lamezia Terme (the closest one to the crash site of the MIG 23) in 1980, he could probably have been aware of informations about the MiG, but no proofs were ever found.
    • Lieutenant Colonel Sandro Marcucci: plane crash, February 2nd 1992. There was no evidence of any connection with the tragedy of Ustica, but he was connected to it in according to the statements of a witness.
    • Marshal Antonio Pagliara: car crash, February 2nd 1992. He was controller of Defense at the Air 32 º CRAM of Otranto, where he could get information on the matter of MiG. The investigation concluded the fortuitous origin of the accident.
    • General Roberto Boemia: murder, 12 January 1993 in Brussels. From his previous statements during the investigation it becomes clear that his testimony would have been very useful both to determine the events related to the DC-9 and for those of the MiG 23. The Belgian magistrate has not solved the case; however, no evidences were found linking the murder with the Ustica massacre.
    • Major medical Gian Paolo Totaro: found hanged at a 3 feet long rope on November 2nd 1994. Despite the completely unnatural manner of the alleged suicide, the investigations determined that it was suicide and pointed out the lack of any connection with the facts of the flight Itavia.


    On May 6th 1988, an anonymous called the TV Broadcast "Telefono Giallo", claiming to have been in duty the evening of the incident as Radar operator (later investigations confirmed the genuinity of the call):
    he said that they all KNEW what happened on that evening, and that they all could see the records (later claimed by the investigator to have vanished); "the day after" he said, "the Marshall told to us to make our business, to shut up". This telephone call will lead the public prosecutor to identify all the members on duty that evening. Investigations also revealed that he was actually on duty at the NATO SHAPE command the evening of June 27th, 1980.
    The Flight Data Recorder recorded flight data absolutely regular before the disaster: the speed was around 323 knots, the altitude was 25.000 feet with fore at 178°, the vertical acceleration did not exceed 1.15 g.
    The Cockpit Voice Recorder recorded this dialogue between the commander and his assistants ( he was telling jokes ):



    Allora sentite questa... Gua...

    Now listen to this one... Loo...


    Gua... would be the cut word "guarda" (look): so the commander SAW something right before the crash.

    The timeline is very long (29 years indeed), and despite every single detail would be worthy to be shared, i will try to make a long story short:

    Official explanation

    After years of investigations, no official explanation or final report have been provided by the Italian government. In 1989 the Parliamentary Commission on Terrorism, headed by Senator Giovanni Pellegrino, pronounced itself content concerning the disappearance of Flight 870, which thus became known as "Ustica Massacre" (Strage di Ustica).
    The definitive sentence asserted: "The DC9 incident occurred following a military interception action, the DC9 was shot down, the lives of 81 innocent citizens were destroyed by an action properly described as an act of war, real war undeclared, a covert international police action against our country, which violated its borders and rights."
    On January 10th, 2007, the Cassazione Court of Italy conclusively closed the case, fully acquitting two former Italian Air Force Generals, Lamberto Bartolucci and Franco Ferri, of any wrongdoing.
    In June 2008, Rome prosecutors reopened the investigation into the crash after former Italian President Francesco Cossiga said that the aircraft had been shot down by French warplanes (see Italy reopens probe into 1980 plane crash: media.
    On July 7 2008 a claim for damages was served to the French President.

    What killed 81 innocent people on June 27th 1980? A missile launched by some french or U.S. or italian airplane? A mid air collision? A near mid-air collision? A bomb onboard?
    After 29 years the relatives of the victims are still waiting for the truth, for justice: this thread is dedicated to them: thank you for your attention.

    -Internos




  • posted on May, 18 2009 @ 12:18 PM
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    Stellar job! I need to read it again to get the idea as to whom benefited from this. What was the motive in your view? That there is a cover up is blatantly obvious. Scary story.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 12:20 PM
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    Bravo!

    I couldn't imagine our government starting an investigation on an airplane crash, and never coming to a conclusion.

    You'd think there would be public outrage, though I guess it has been a while.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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    A MiG is a Russian manufactured plane which makes it unlikely that the US or France owned one.


    [edit on 18/5/09 by Lebowski achiever]



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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    Astounding investigation...makes me wonder how long it took you to put all this together and the reason why for such interest in this particular accident which I remember very well...I lived in Italy at that time...

    A long but thoroughly interesting post which I will read in full from now

    Thanx



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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    Please, no nonsense , at least here !

    ALL photos, including the one you have posted, clearly show that something (i.e., A TERRORIST BOMB) exploded INSIDE the plane.

    The shamelessly pro-palestinians Italian governments of those years could not admit that, so they let the Italian AirForce and the USAF take the blame, against all evidence.

    The Italian Minister of the Interior Affairs, who later became P.M. and later still Head of state, Francesco Cossiga, has ripetedly said and wrote so, and nobody dares to challenge him, but the pro-terrorist left keeps circulating the same nonsense.

    Case closed, and let those poor souls rest in peace.

    Mario



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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    Excellent thread, well structured and informative,

    Something indeed happened that was hushed up that for sure, and every time I read about these untimely deaths of these poor people that get caught up in these things, I feel immense sorrow for the people that were so callously murdered, what did they have to go through minutes before their death.

    Excellent thread once again, thankyou for bringing this interesting incident to my attention.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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    Great Thread!!!!
    I'm Italian and I know very well this MASSACRE!
    The MASSACRE is continued in next years because others men involved in this orrible MASSACRE dead misteriuosly (81+26) 26!!! Generals, radar officials civilian and military, and soldier of italian air force who watched what really appened on Ustica sky in that orrible night.
    No Libics involved!
    Last year (2008) former Italian President Francesco Cossiga said that during that "Battle" on Ustica sky, a Mirage jet fired a "special missile" (magnetic ) on the Itavia jet!
    My questions: WHY THE MIRAGE USED A SPECIAL WEAPON?
    WHAT WAS THE "TARGET"?
    If you read the radar's "tabulas" you see that near Itaria airplane there were TWO objects unknown that, seconds before the explosion, missing!
    What were that two objects that radars traks at stratosferic elevation?
    NATO "COSMIC" TOP SECRET!



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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    reply to post by internos
     


    Internos, sei grande! Figurati quando tempo ci sei messo per fare una presentazione esagerante, stupendo cosi.

    < Meraviglioso, veramente.


    Anzi, ti dico la verita che non sono in conoscente con questa (grande)successa. Questa storia.
    Ti ringrazio tanto per averl'fatta cosi piu semplice per me (noi).
    Inizio adesso. Sono grato!



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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    Lebowski achiever, breakingdradles, Sarahko, franspeakfree, Taymour, Ben Niceknowinya: thank you for your nice posts

    Lebowski achiever, regarding your question

    I need to read it again to get the idea as to whom benefited from this. What was the motive in your view?

    After all these years of (dis)informations opposed each to other, one would have really hard time in forming some serious opinion: the theory of the bomb onboard has been concluded to be the less likely, and it was rejected even by experts from opposite sides: how much sense would it make to orchestrate such a cover up in order to protect a bunch of terrorists? IF (as stated by the marshal who called during the TV Broadcast) the area was really (temporarly) under NATO SHAPE command control, then the italian military responsibilities would be heavily reduced: after all, they have sworn loyalty, hence to disclose secrets in such a scenario would have been an act of high treason. But if NATO wasn't involved, the they do are guilty of high treason, since it has been proven beyond a reasoneable doubt that they've lied, omitted facts, hidden and destroyed documentation of extreme importance strictly related to the massacre (and i don't want to even touch again the button of the fishy deaths
    ). Also the theory of a missile targetting the libic mig (but just if it took off from somewhere in Italy) would make sense if Italy was actually hosting libic pilots for training in Decimomannu, especially if U.S. forces were kept unaware of it (today it would be impossible, but at the time i'm not that sure that it was). According to the assessments, also some missile launched by the MIG 23 can be ruled out: it was equipped with a GSh (23 mm)
    and according to the surveys such a weapon would be hardly consistent with the primary damage suffered by the DC9. While it can't be ruled out some mid air collision or, better, some nearly one, some missile launch targetting the MIG, some wargame gone wrong, some Infrared guided missile attracted by the warm of the DC9, etc. Everything that would justify such a cover up would stand valid as possible explanation, if consistent with the evidences: even the bomb onboard would be, despite almost all the studies on the dynamics of the incident concluded that the impact came from the out left side: of course less likely doesn't mean impossible, but i would like also to know which one is supposed to be the terrorist organization that would organize and perpetrate such an act without even claim its responsibility: in a strategic play based on propaganda, no claims would be equal to no results. I also forgot to add that a tank of a fighter was found in the same are where the DC9 wreckage, but details like the exact origin of it are missing (just speculations, not proofs). Thanks again





    Originally posted by Mario78
    Please, no nonsense , at least here !

    ALL photos, including the one you have posted, clearly show that something (i.e., A TERRORIST BOMB) exploded INSIDE the plane.

    Care to corroborate with some evidence your statements or shall we take your words as proof? Are you some expert, MORE expert than all those who investigated STRAIGHT on the wreckage (please don't tell me that you just are making some otrageous claims basing your pseudo-construction on some photos?


    The shamelessly pro-palestinians Italian governments of those years could not admit that, so they let the Italian AirForce and the USAF take the blame, against all evidence.

    Well, this at least is FUNNY, isn't it? Could not admit WHAT? That it was a terrorist attack? To protect the authors of the attack? Palestinians, possibly? And why would palestinians to attack a commercial airplane in a
    pro-palestine country? Are you sure that you aren't a bit confused? Where are your proofs, anyway?



    The Italian Minister of the Interior Affairs, who later became P.M.

    WRONG. Cossiga, at the time was PM, not Minister of the Interiors: if you ignore the difference between the two, of course is not my fault.

    it.wikipedia.org...
    Virginio Rognoni, was the Minister if the interior at the time

    it.wikipedia.org...
    Cossiga is one guy, Rognoni is another one; Minister of the interior is one thing, Prime Minister is another one





    Francesco Cossiga, has ripetedly said and wrote so, and nobody dares to challenge him, but the pro-terrorist left keeps circulating the same nonsense.

    To say and to write is equal to a claim whatsoever in some pub in front of a beer, if there are NO corroborating proofs (like you did before in your very strange post). Cossiga, you say? For your information, Italy reopened probe into the crash

    ROME (Reuters) June 22 2008 - Rome prosecutors have reopened a probe into a mysterious plane explosion off Sicily in 1980, after former Italian President Francesco Cossiga said the plane was hit by a French missile, Italian media reported on Sunday.

    And



    Cossiga told Italian television earlier this year that he and former cabinet undersecretary Giuliano Amato were told by Italian secret service agents that a French aircraft had launched the missile in an apparent attempt to hit a nearby plane believed to be carrying Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi.

    and

    In June 2008, Rome prosecutors reopened the investigation into the crash after former Italian President Francesco Cossiga said that the aircraft had been shot down by French warplanes.
    On July 7 2008 a claim for damages was served to the French President.

    etc. etc. etc.
    en.wikipedia.org...
    www.comune.bologna.it...
    www.reuters.com...

    More informations about italian Public Prosecutor reopening the case because of Cossiga's claims can be found here,
    www.repubblica.it...
    here,
    www.la7.it...
    here,
    www.strageustica.altervista.org...
    and all over the italian press.

    A bomb onboard is one thing, a missile launched by a french fighter is another one, ok?
    Now please tell me: shall we take him seriously or not? Because if we do, then his latest statement is the only one that does matter, and you would be wrong. If we don't, the your whole construction is pointless, and you would be wrong twice, for both believing in lies and spreading them: you decide, thank you for you post, nice try though (YOU have asked for "no nonsense here" right? Here you go, nonsense denied)



    [edit on 18/5/2009 by internos]



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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    It's an interesting story, but I think the presence of the MiG makes it fairly straightforward.

    The MiG 23 by the way has a minimum range of 570 miles and a maximum of 1750 miles, it actually had the ability to reach the crash site and return to its base in Libya dependent on its exact fuel configuration.

    The Libyan MiG (or MiGs since they usually fly in pairs) attempted to penetrate the NATO exercise airspace by flying close to the airliner which they themselves originally acquired on radar.

    They were nevertheless spotted by NATO fighters and combat ensued between the MiG/s, 3 Italian F-104s a US Navy A-7 Corsair, and a French Mirage, most likely an F.1.

    At some point in the fight, someone put a pair of SARH missiles into the DC-9 by mistake, probably the good guys, and also managed to down one of the MiGs (the one that crashed) although it managed to fly some distance before crashing, possibly because of an incapacitated pilot possibly hit by cannon fire.

    That's it really, a total screw up that no one wants to admit to.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 06:13 PM
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    reply to post by internos
     


    Internos,

    You never fail to please
    S&F.
    Your reports are consistenly top tier in terms of research and readibility!!!
    I take my hat off to you mate


    What do you think about the possibility of there being two Migs hugging the DC-9 to avoid detection/being shot? as mentioned here in Wiki:




    The media also reported that radar monitoring released in 1997 by NATO showed that at least seven fighter aircraft were in the vicinity when the jet plunged into the sea off the island of Ustica. According to these sources, the radar shows one or two Libyan MiG-23 had tried to evade detection by flying close to the airliner. Three Italian Air Force F-104S, one U.S. Navy A-7 Corsair II and a French fighter pursued the Libyan MiG-23 and a battle ensued.


    Wiki Account

    Once again, thank you for a thought-provoking and highly-entertaining account



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 06:37 PM
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    The wreckage shown in the mountains looks nothing like a Mig23. It looks more like a Piper Cub or Fieseler Storch.

    [edit on 5-18-2009 by groingrinder]



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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    reply to post by internos
     


    Excellent thread with stellar research. I haven't looked over it all but I will now, just wanted to post this to bump the thread.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:01 PM
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    The picture of the panel near or on the door shows a exit wound ( for lack of better word). It shows that something penetrated the metal but from the inside out, meaning that likely it was an explosion from inside the craft somewhere near the door on the left, as that is where the most parts of the plan are missing...

    Too anybody who can piece things together, that should be the most logical solution. We might never know for sure but at least we can be smart enough to guess correctly.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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    reply to post by internos
     


    Did you manage to find a passenger manifest? I am anxious to know who all was on board that flight as it might be able to provide some insight to the chances of an internal explosion. Are you thinking a false flag op gone wrong? I have to say that is my immediate thought. Again excellent post.


    EDIT to add: Also what were the depths of the videos you posted, were they a 9,000 feet?

    [edit on 5/18/2009 by jkrog08]



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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    reply to post by Taymour
     


    It is interesting you said "NATO Cosmic Top Secret", as that is commonly reported as one of the top clearance levels, so that can add some validity to your claim. I am anxious to know if you learned of the project name for this missile?



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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    Originally posted by LucidDreamer85
    The picture of the panel near or on the door shows a exit wound ( for lack of better word). It shows that something penetrated the metal but from the inside out, meaning that likely it was an explosion from inside the craft somewhere near the door on the left, as that is where the most parts of the plan are missing...

    Too anybody who can piece things together, that should be the most logical solution. We might never know for sure but at least we can be smart enough to guess correctly.


    I agree with this. The first time I saw this picture it looks just like an exit wound. If it were a missle it would have an entrance on the opposite side.



    posted on May, 18 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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    reply to post by groingrinder
     


    Thanks, groingrinder:
    that sequence of photos, actually, shows a very different scenario from the one i saw on both TV and private houses (and elsewhere) at the time of the incident:
    i recall a scene in which there were no trees, at least not in the immediate closeness, and i don't recall to have seen those tube-like shapes: basically that is NOT what i saw. Honestly, i recall a totally different scenario. However, they are included in some reports as the photos of the official retrieval, for example here:
    www.secretum-omega.com... (23 Mb, .PDF)

    I was even undecided whether to post them or not: but i thought that since their importance is limited (it has been assested that what we have been told abut the official retrieval of the MIG 23 is a bunch of lies) the damage, in case they would turn out to be not relevant, wouldn't have been that biggie: otherwise, i could have omitted to share some visual evidence, so the choice wasn't that easy. Thank you again for your clarification. May i ask you how about the max. range, indicated by the court of inquiry, of that mig: they stated that its max. range was 600 Km, but as retseh kindly pointed out, and also according to other sources, the range could have been ay higher: is there any way to determine what MIG 23 was on duty in Lybia on 1980, and consequently, their maximum range? This question is extremely important, because the marshall who made the famous phone call during the TV broadcast, stated (in some late circumstance) that a mig was tracked since its take off from a military base in Lybia and that its fly path crossed the one of the DC9. Since the max. range is the element that allegedly ruled out a direct involvement of Lybia in the incident, to know that there are even just some chances that its range was wider would change completely the scenario.



    Originally posted by jkrog08
    reply to post by internos
     


    Did you manage to find a passenger manifest? I am anxious to know who all was on board that flight as it might be able to provide some insight to the chances of an internal explosion. Are you thinking a false flag op gone wrong? I have to say that is my immediate thought. Again excellent post.

    This is a very good question:

    Italian Military secret services investigated over each one of passengers and crew members:


    Si compivano anche ricerche al fine di accertare se alcuno dei passeggeri avesse avuto precedenti o pendenze penali.
    Si appurava così che Alberto Bonfietti, segretario provinciale e regionale dell’organizzazione extraparlamentare “Lotta Continua, era stato denunciato per aver promosso manifestazioni sediziose e senza preavviso, per occupazione della facoltà di sociologia dell’università di Trento nonché per violenza a pubblico ufficiale;
    Giuseppe De Cicco era stato denunciato per macellazione e trasporto clandestino di carni e violazione di domicilio;
    Giacomo Filippi lo era stato per trasporto di partita per uso zootecnico sprovvista del prescritto certificato sanitario;
    Vito Fontana per lesioni personali colpose;
    Andrea Guarano per incendio doloso e per prelievo irregolare di energia elettrica;
    Giuseppe Manitta aveva precedenti per furto aggravato, commercio di stupefacenti, esercizio abusivo di commercio e emissione di assegni a vuoto;
    Carlo Parrinello era stato denunciato per violazione di legge sulla caccia; Anna
    Paola Pelliccioni era stata denunciata per omessa custodia di animali.
    Si appurava altresì che il coniuge di De Lisi Elvira, Parisi Roberto, imprenditore edile, consigliere delegato del gruppo ICEM (Costruzioni Elettriche Meccaniche), sarà ucciso dalla mafia a Palermo nel 1985.
    In effetti nessuno dei passeggeri aveva precedenti tali da motivare azioni di vendetta o di minaccia. Si tratta di denunce e condanne, ad eccezione del Manitta, per reati minimi. Anche i precedenti del Manitta però sono di criminalità comune.

    (rough)Translation:
    AN investigation was started to determine whether any of the passengers had had previous criminal convictions or slopes.
    It was established that Alberto Bonfietti, secretary of the provincial and extra-regional "Lotta Continua", was denounced for promoting events and seditious without notice for employment of the faculty of sociology at the University of Trento and violence public official;
    Giuseppe De Cicco had been sued for illegal slaughter and transportation of meat and violation of domicile;
    James Filippi was for the transportation of animals withhout the mandatory certificate of health;
    Vito Fontana for negligent personal injury;
    Andrea Guarano for arson and unlawful removal of electricity;
    Giuseppe Manitta had had issues in the past for theft, drug trade, exercise of improper trading and issuing a blank check;
    Parrinello Carlo had been sued for violation of the law on hunting, Anna
    Paola Pelliccioni had been condemned for failing to care for animals.
    It was also determined that Elvira De Lisi's husband, Roberto Parisi, director of the ICEM group (Construction Electrical Mechanical) will be killed by the Mafia in Palermo in 1985.
    In fact none of the passengers had police records worthy to justify such an huge act.




    EDIT to add: Also what were the depths of the videos you posted, were they a 9,000 feet?

    Yes, they were. I will post something about what has been found during the operations at that depths: they have found something of unexpected, but i will share what has been found and wait for opinions: thank you for your post, jkrog08



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