America in Prophecy & the New World Order

For too long a true understanding of Biblical prophecy, especially as concerns the United States, has been largely impossible for the reasons that Hebrew syntax and Hebraisms, and Koine Greek verbs and prepositional phrases do not lend themselves well to a literal word for word translation into English. Indeed, one Koine Greek verb can take three sentences to correctly translate. Further complicating this has been denominational prophetic errors that were force fitted into reading the Bible, skewing a plain understanding of prophecy.

Denominations have also struggled to keep their teachings rather than allow the correction of numerous errors that advanced manuscript criticism has allowed to be corrected through a better understanding of Hebrew and Koine Greek grammar and usage; archeology has played no small role in proving the usage of many hotly disputed Greek verbs. Notwithstanding this, denominations have fought long and hard to maintain their long held traditions, especially in prophecy.

As I have stated elsewhere: “…that we in the Body of Christ have lost sight of one of the main principles of Bible study and the Word’s correct application. It was the guiding principle of the Protestant Reformation, and we would do well to return to it. It is “sensus literalis”, or the principle of the literal interpretation of the scripture as first defined by Martin Luther…. ‘Therefore, any attempts at “harmonization” must be foremost in the resolution of any clear contradictions of a proposed supposition of a scriptures’ meaning by another scripture. Failing this, any understanding of the intent of scripture becomes one of a reliance on human supposition only. Thus, “Chances are if the plain sense makes sense, you have the right sense’”

The main glaring mistake in misunderstanding the prophecies in the Old Testament are in the misunderstanding of the Hebraisms of linguistic cues. The Lord often uses linguistic cues as a contextual safeguard in transition from the subject in one passage of scripture to the next, to guard against a misunderstanding of ‘who’ a passage is targeted to. Judah ben David (one of the first Hebrew grammarians to expound on the prophets’ use of a form of the past tense mixed with the present perfect tense in referencing future events), wrote extensively on the recognition of these linguistic cues with their combination of the past and present perfect tense.

It must also be remembered that most Biblical prophecy has a ‘near’ (soon after the prophecy was written) and a ‘far’ (into the distant future) interpretation. What this means is that both the ‘near’ and ‘far’ applications of the prophecy are intertwined with textual cue verses, or Hebraisms to delineate the targeted applications of the prophecy being dealt with.

The Old Testament Book of Obadiah is a perfect example of misunderstood prophecy. It was likely written between 848 and 840 B.C. However, the total destruction of Edom took place between 1060 and 1030 BC as recorded in 1 Kings 11:15-16, which means that the book of Obadiah was written to the nation of Edom 200 years after they had been destroyed. The question then becomes to whom the book could be talking to?

It is recorded that Jacob, father of the nation of Israel and who was later renamed Israel, had a fraternal twin brother named Esau, who was the father of the nation of Edom. Taking into consideration the obvious Hebraisms of addressing a nation long destroyed, it can be surmised that this book is addressing a nation as close as a brother to Israel; one who is known for great hunters/warriors as Esau and the nation of Edom were, and that was known as a great world center of advances in and manufacturing of the weapons of war, such as Edom’s city of Teman.

1Kings 11:15 “For it happened when David was in Edom, and Joab the commander of the army had gone up to bury the slain, after he had stricken every male in Edom--16 ‘for Joab remained there six months with all Israel, until he had cut off every male in Edom.”

Further, it is scripturally and historically recorded that one of the King of Edom’s relatives Hadad, escaped to Egypt and there married Pharaoh’s daughter and raised a family. These decedents of the Edomite King later returned to Edom, but after several years of harassing King Solomon ended up as vassal servants of Israel. When they revolted around 810 BC, they were crushed and wiped out; just as the ‘near’ part of the prophecy in Obadiah foretold. Even during the few years Hadad and his band of family and men did harass Israel, they did so largely as in guerilla style warfare; thus, Edom never again returned to a strong kingdom after King David destroyed it.

It is necessary to point out here that only two nations in all of history were dedicated to God at their start, the United States with the Mayflower Compact and Israel with their desert commission. Thus, you find the United States as an older brother to Israel in their current reincarnation as a nation. This fact is necessary to remember when studying prophecy as it is written that “…He is able to guard [what has been] entrusted to Him until that Day.” This means that whatever is dedicated to God, He will watch over until the end.

Obadiah begins with a call for nations to rise against ‘Edom’, immediate cue that the actual Edom is not being dealt with, as it was Israel that first destroyed Edom; it then in the second verse uses a sarcastic Hebraisms to project this prophetic application into the future; it can be seen as sarcastic when the next verses reveal that THIS Edom is a powerful nation, but small to God. The next two verses deal with the intended prophetic subject of a nation that considers itself in a highly defensible position, has a rather high opinion of itself and believes itself undefeatable. Soaring high ‘like’ the eagle, it has made its home between the stars (literal application of the Hebrew grammar here ‘between the earth and the stars’); God announces that from there He will bring it down.


[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

While this, from the rendering, conveys the idea of a nuclear or other airborne attack, the next two verses show that this is an airborne invasion, which brings hordes of rampaging and looting soldiers. Indeed, verse seven shows that countries allied with this nation that soars like the eagle, while it is off fighting for the alliance, invade and overcome it; the wording here meaning that this nation’s own food will be used in subduing it. Read here: 'come turn your weapons in and United Nations will feed you'; which fits exactly with General George Washington’s Vision for America.

While verse eight cues into further near upcoming dealings with the remnant of Edom that revolt against serving Israel, the following verses are intertwined with the reasons for God having dealt in judgment for both ‘Edoms’: Brothers standing back and doing nothing as Jerusalem is divided and the land of Israel is plundered and given away. Whether or not anyone else is, God is a Zionist who is going to give it to the nations that mess with Israel, soon.

However, the United States of America, our beloved Republic survives, as like General Washington’s vision relates, when we repent, kneel, and with one voice cry out to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and our Lord Jesus. At that moment the heavens break and legions of angels with drawn swords join our mortal battle with the “army of the blue flag”, we take heart and begin to fight again and finally prevail! Then the Angel with “Union” on its crown announces to General Washington “Son of the Republic, look and learn! As long as the stars hang in the heavens and the dew falls from the sky, THIS UNION SHALL STAND!”

The prophetic scriptures bear this out as we find a terrible fair-skinned nation mentioned in Isaiah 18. It is directed to a land ‘beyond’ Ethiopia, but this is another Hebraisms as the word translated “beyond” is two Hebrew words meaning ‘like but above, across a region or LARGE distance’. The “Woe” is a textual cue of a prophet projection into the future as an exclamation, more probably “Oh!” or “Ho!”, as can be seen by the “shadowing with wings” literally: ‘covered over head with flying’. Also of note is the word “rivers” in this verse is translated from a word meaning ‘large river or sea’. Thus verse one is best translated: “Ho! To the land covered over head with flying, like but better then Ethiopia and across the large sea from it.” (Ethiopia had for years before being subjugated by Egypt, been known for trying to keep peace among the central African nations with their ambassadors. They also had a large population of Jews that were a respected part of their population.)

Verse two of this chapter is even more revealing as to WHOM this prophecy is directed: “That sends ambassadors across the sea in weapons WITH words, across the waters, SEND swift messengers to a nation of tall, light skinned and independent people, dreadful from their beginning onward; a nation for measuring (other nations is the sense implied) that tramples down, whose land the rivers divide”; a pretty good description in ancient Hebrew of the United States.

Verse three is God gathering His Army in the mountains (SEE ‘Take My People to the Mountains’ thread), RIGHT before His early harvest season return verse 4 and 5; then the verse 6 Battle of Armageddon.

In verse 7 we see these light skinned tall people from across the sea, whose nation the rivers divide, a nation of people for measuring others that are terrible from their birth on ward, powerful and trampling underfoot other nations, SHALL BRING PRESENTS TO THE LORD OF HOST IN ZION! This Union shall survive! This Republic SHALL STAND! We Will OVERCOME THE New World Order!


[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

The last words of the angel to General George Washinton are words we all should remember:

"Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third, passing which the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land, and the Union.' With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat, and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States."

These will be fearful times indeed, but we shall overcome every hardship and trial - after all, we are Americans!

That's pretty heavy. I had read Obadiah, but assumed it was speaking of it's punishment even to its current condition.

Interesting that on that day of ambush, the wise men of Edom will be destroyed.

Good luck with that. Our wise men are in Washington, and are the biggest dumbasses since the creation of this nation.

reply to post by dooper


Is that your opinion of our 'wise men' in Washington? A little out of character for you being so tame, is it not? I would have expected more colorful adjectives brother Patriot! But it is late...

Very interesting analysis. My education was in Classical Greek, rather than Koine, but at one point I had a copy of the New Testament in Greek (Nestle's as I recall), and the Classical education worked fairly well with the Koine, the Koine seeming to be somewhat simpler. I'm dependent on Strong's Lexicon for all my Hebrew. Although Hebrew has a lot of similarities with Arabic, which I have a smattering of, there are enough differences that I rely on the Strong's. The linguistic analysis was great, but 'literal' translations sometimes are stilted enough not to convey the sense of the phrase, and tend to leave some folks confused. I'd like to see a paraphrase of the passage along with the literal translation.

I'm not very well versed in practical application of prophecy, and so this was very educational. Sticking to Old testament prophecy was a plus, since I'm pretty leary of modern interpretations of New Testament prophecy. Seems like every little sect has it's own take on Revelations in particular. For instance, regarding rapture, you've got pre-trib, mid-trib, and post trib. I'm more of a 'pan-trib' individual, since I believe it will all pan out in the end.

The calisthenics some put Daniel through to get charts and such simply boggle me. I reckon you could say that Eschatology isn't my strong suite. I realize that prophecy is intended as a warning, and for the edification of the faithful, but I tend more towards the 'fig tree casting it's leaves' variety, because that's when I know it's on. Theologically, I'm a Calvinist, all five points. That's not very popular these days, but that's whats in me. It's led to some lively discussions.

I believe the Union will stand, because there will be a remnant of the faithful when the dust settles and the smoke clears to put it all back together, as it was in the beginning. Yup, I believe God's going to look out for them, and that core is all I really NEED to know, so that my pea-brain doesn't get bogged down in details. The rest is all education for recreation.

Your identification of the US with Edom was a new one on me, and rather intriguing. I'm going to have to dig in to that. Who are you identifying with the new world order? The 'allied nations' = UN? The description you mention does sound a lot like the US.

Edit: Forgive me if I seem distracted. My wife and daughter were robbed across town (on the 'good' side) this afternoon in broad daylight, and we've gotten 3 calls with death threats since then if we don't 'drop the matter', so I've been digging for intel on the perpetrators, (just in case they try making good on their promises and I need such) and haven't been paying proper attention. If I drop ANYTHING, I think they won't be happy with what gets dropped.


[edit on 2009/5/16 by nenothtu]

Thank you so much for this thread which many of us have asked for, Sarge. I'm still "digesting" the words of scripture, so you'll have to excuse the brevity of my initial post.

The thing that perhaps struck me (once again) is the glaringly obvious paralells between General Washington's vision and the reality of our Republic's state at present! As I'm sure you will agree, Washington's words are much more readily "digestible" for a novice biblical scholar like me... And leaves little to the imagination or errant interpretation...

Never before have I been so convinced, and I think we all know I was fairly well convinced before reading this.

Time to go grab The Book and bury my nose in it...

Thanks again.

reply to post by SGTChas


I think you have many valuable Scriptural insights in your posts. I want to prayerfully ponder them before much more comment.

It is clear to me that we are on the very brink of very dramatic events of great portent; great drama; great trauma; great death and destruction . . . that life shall never again be the same thereafter.

The only ones I know of who don't sense something of this are the mindless, the brain-dead, the deluded, the mass hypnotized, the 'Thuga-bots . . . and a significant percentage of their energy seems, to me, to be driven by their rebellions, stubbornness, selfishness, arrogance and their glee at seeing Godly conservative values, people and groups suffer at the hands of the globalist Thuga regime.

They really have no clue what they have lined up behind. The Scripture comes to mind . . . about can you take hot burning coals into your lap and not be burned???

a star and a flag for you. Great meeting you.

Awesome Read Sarge!

Gonna go study up on Obadiah now.

Although, I thought the USA was Babylon . . . Can you sort that one out for me?

Brilliant.

S&F

[edit on 16/5/2009 by xxpigxx]

Originally posted by BO XIAN

They really have no clue what they have lined up behind. The Scripture comes to mind . . . about can you take hot burning coals into your lap and not be burned???

Spot on. All I would add to that is that they clearly have no idea what they have lined up AGAINST either.

None so blind as those who WILL not see, eh?

nenothtu out

Originally posted by xxpigxx
Awesome Read Sarge!

Gonna go study up on Obadiah now.

Although, I thought the USA was Babylon . . . Can you sort that one out for me?

Brilliant.

S&F

[edit on 16/5/2009 by xxpigxx]

The Babylon reference is from Revelations, in the new testament, and doesn't exclude the Edom association, I would say. The way I understand it, and I'm not really a scholar of such things so I could be off, is that Revelations carries on 7 separate threads in one book, and switches successively from one to the next.

Actually, I suppose the two identifications could be mutually supportive, and entail different aspects of the same political entity. Like looking at in from two different angles. Both descriptions are accurate regarding certain segments of our society.

Like I said, I'm not a scholar of the subject matter or anything, just food for thought.

nenothtu out

reply to post by SGTChas

Metaphorically speaking. One has to assume a king or a government has the best and brightest "wise men" surrounding them.

This has generally been true throughout history, except with the current US government. Washington is an insane asylum, and oddly, at this time, since the placement of complete incompetents in such positions of power coincide with other prophetic indicators, their very placement may possibly be entirely due to Providence.

Those who God would first punish, he makes mad. And it's nothing but madness on Capitol Hill.

And if there ever was a nation divided by a river, the Mississippi has always been a defining feature of the US.

This OP should refrain from speaking like his lecturing is based on fact. I can't even begin to tell you how wrong much of your assumptions are and the way you have missed the mark on some of the most basic knowledge of the occult and divinity. First of all Washington is not your angelic hero you think he is. He was a puppet fraud financed by the Bavarian illuminati and the Freemasons to gain control and spread their influence.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by libertytoall]

reply to post by libertytoall


And this is fact?

Or assumptions?

Come back with some supportive evidence, some indication that you've actually looked at some of the material that has been posted, your analysis, and then we'll have a basis for discussion.

I love a genius who is right, who has zero ability to back up his "rightness," and make the wildest claims as though they have any meaning.

I think this topic is way over your head.

It's certainly over my head, but at least I'm aware of come collaborating evidence.

And at least I'm willing to consider things I didn't know before.

Why don't you start another thread with supporting data, connections, and your hypothesis? We'll give it a fair hearing.

Much more fair than you've been here.

is this in response to the article, the New World Bible. The thumpers sure get to thumping when they feel threatened. I am amazed that they have so many sites dedicated to conspiracy theories. Religion being on the top of my list with regards to a true conspiracy theory.

I made a decision this past month, that i think was one of the wisest decisions of my life. I am ignoring most conspiracy theories at this point in my life. They are as abundant as species of plants. One can waste an inordinate amount of time following these non-events, researching and acting as foolish expert to others less informed.

It seems much of the conspiracy stuff is created to make a buck, and the more sinister reason being to occupy your time with triviality instead of focusing on real life issues. I can tell you from my experience of following conspiracy theories over the years....IT IS A WASTE OF TIME. The secrets one thinks he knows above and beyond others by studying the untested hypotheses of conspiracy theories creates egomaniacs out of all of us.

Forget all the BS. I lump religion into that category. Get on with your lives. You will have zero effect on the outcome anyway. You may think you can alter the future, but I seriously doubt it. Good luck in your adventures down the road of reality.

reply to post by dooper


Let's start wth this then..

Where did the Statue of Liberty come from and what does it symbolize? Where could you also find the same figure in Roman times under Roman control?

Read the transfiguration of Jesus. What do you think happened?

If you can answer all of the above accurately I'll spend the time being a part of this thread. I have years upon years of research in this subject as well as my own personal divine experence and I don't waltz around like I know everything. The OP just came off a bit bossy by shoving invalid or false facts down peoples necks as truths. DON'T BE A FALSE PROPHET... Sorry but I wouldn't be a part of that and I hope the same for the rest of you. Why do you want to follow or waste your time on something the thread starter obviously doesn't understand fully.

I'm just saying if your going to attempt to write a factual based novel try and make it factual based.. Posting multiple times in a row to start off the thread, causing us all to spend alot of time reading and weeding out garbage, is not helping anyone.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by libertytoall]

you' all need to sit down and shut up - if you want a correct translation of the bible in English get the ferar fenton edition.

reply to post by libertytoall
Since I, too, have put years of study into the history of this country, which goes well back before it was actually settled, as well as much study into the founding fathers, I suppose our interpretations differ. I have studied the Bible quite extensively, and I, for one, am quite appreciative of Sarge's post. It takes me back to a time when I really believed in something, and makes me think there is hope for this country, if we put our depend on God, and keep ourselves prepared for the conflicts to come.
In other words, chill out, you might learn something.

Flag to you Sarge! Great post, looking forward to more on the subject from you.

reply to post by libertytoall


I don't care if you spend time on this thread or not.

I'm not playing 40 questions with you. You got something to say, then for God's sake, say it.