America in Prophecy & the New World Order

Originally posted by nenothtu

The Babylon reference is from Revelations, in the new testament, and doesn't exclude the Edom association, I would say. The way I understand it, and I'm not really a scholar of such things so I could be off, is that Revelations carries on 7 separate threads in one book, and switches successively from one to the next.

Actually, I suppose the two identifications could be mutually supportive, and entail different aspects of the same political entity. Like looking at in from two different angles. Both descriptions are accurate regarding certain segments of our society.

Like I said, I'm not a scholar of the subject matter or anything, just food for thought.

nenothtu out

I think that Edom might be the physical USA while Babylon might be the spiritual USA.

Yes, no?

[edit on 16/5/2009 by xxpigxx]

reply to post by xxpigxx


It DOES seem to point in that direction when you put the descriptions side by side, doesn't it?

Hi,

I was under the impression that the Washington vision was completely fabricated.

Does anyone have any more information on this? From what I read it was literary device used by Charles Alexander using the pen name of Wesley Bradshaw. He wrote similar visions or dreams for Lincoln, Grant and McClellen.

It would be cool if there was any validity to the story, but it looks like it was made up out of whole cloth.

Eric

It's threads like this that get Americans labeled as mental xenophobic megalomanicas.

Just because there is a prophecy in the Bible doesn't mean that it is about America.

I have spent my life searching for people who know the Bible well, and have spent a great deal of time listening to them and how they viewed the Bible.

One thing that I did learn is that prophecy is never really realised by us (humans) until after the event has passed. The reason is that if we really knew what the future held, we would get bored very quickly.

There is only one prophecy in the Bible that is meant to be cracked before the "end time", and that would be the number of the beast - it being a mans number. Otherwise other prophecies in the Bible would suggest that other "clever" individuals could work them out before the event.

Actually... I'm going to give up now. From what I have read on this thread it is populated by small minded individuals that actually think the Bible would be so insignificant as to be concerned with modern day boundaries... Shame, but you're all way, way off the mark.

Night, night.

Originally posted by dampnickers
It's threads like this that get Americans labeled as mental xenophobic megalomanicas.

Just because there is a prophecy in the Bible doesn't mean that it is about America.

I have spent my life searching for people who know the Bible well, and have spent a great deal of time listening to them and how they viewed the Bible.

One thing that I did learn is that prophecy is never really realised by us (humans) until after the event has passed. The reason is that if we really knew what the future held, we would get bored very quickly.

There is only one prophecy in the Bible that is meant to be cracked before the "end time", and that would be the number of the beast - it being a mans number. Otherwise other prophecies in the Bible would suggest that other "clever" individuals could work them out before the event.

Actually... I'm going to give up now. From what I have read on this thread it is populated by small minded individuals that actually think the Bible would be so insignificant as to be concerned with modern day boundaries... Shame, but you're all way, way off the mark.

Night, night.

So you made a post stating how you will not make a post?

Brilliant there!

Now instead of labeling and calling names, try adding something to the conversation.

Even if you do not agree, you can help someone DENY IGNORANCE!




I believe that we are living history. These are the end times right before the tribulation. How else would you explain the madness in the world?

How else would you explain alot of the world's prophecies seemingly beginning to converge?



[edit on 16/5/2009 by xxpigxx]

reply to post by xxpigxx

I could agree on the spirituality of Babylon taking root in the US. However the actual family of Edom creating rivalry against God's people seems more like a metaphor in prophecy. It does really have a synonymous affect when you compare it to the current situation however. I like the Babylonian prophecy in its spiritual reference as it has some hard concrete evidence in reference to King Nimrod controlling his subjects with idols. As Edom divides and usurps God's people, so does Nimrod's idols. As Nimrod pushed idols upon people he could control spirituality with temptation and gluttony, thus keeping his subjects wanting and waiting for untold wealth of which they had no knowledge. Sounds like the current economics in action. This spirit of idols or anti-christ is moving among two great houses which are tempted by its pleasure, giving this Edom spirit much more ammo when you look at both Nimrod and Edom in the same light. Both great houses will quickly shun any prophet who dares to criticize the idols, or lets say rampant luxuries whom even the most matured of God's elect would have difficulty putting down. Is it not said the anti-christ will deceive God's own elect? The reference to King Nimrod, seems to take precedence over Edom as its illicit power has had a hand in American economics long before the Clinton Administration arrived.

This Babylonian power, or lets say spiritual idol power can distort the masses in many different ways. These needful things or lets say the entertainment needs we are all so addicted to are easily manipulated to contrive results among those who don’t take the time to look at things closely. When taken into the account of the Edom prophecy one could easily say entertainment has taken root into politics to the effect, the vast majority of the undereducated will believe whatever the tube tells them. This control mechanism has been prevalent for some years now to which many normal people have elected to numb their senses to television over practical reading. The constant scene changes on television have been proven to show some sort of mind control over the weak minded. Many patents exist to show this is really happening on the entertainment networks.

Those who are not raised to question different facets of reality are not keen enough to decipher God’s true reality and all they seek after is the flesh. Remember, Jesus did reject the hungry stomachs that followed him the day after the feast. Could he have alluded to Edom or Nimrod in this occurrence? Those who know, albeit, these hungry stomachs received the truth, but yet followed the master the following day looking for food showing they cared not for the truth of his word, so he rejected them. As his word did not reciprocate from their stomachs they showed the master all they where interested in was gluttony and sloth. Can we relate this to the spirit of Edom? Not hardly, Edom obviously and has showed hard work in his battles against Gods people. On the other hand, the Babylonians in their desire for gluttony, or lets say, hand outs for sloth would be correctly labeled as the epiphany of the current time.

Finally, I would agree to Edom being the correct application of blame if it could be proven that hard works to deceive even God’s elect have been committed against men by the real application of sin from hand compared to spiritual warfare. Seeing the Edom prophecy shows a desire for either revenge or all out destruction, it’s hard for me to agree. The current situation appears to be all out folly in growing numbers by slothful technologies. However I could see the intent by a foul spirits but not by any man in the current time as this situation is so widespread over so many years.

I would never, ever presume to speak for the Sarge, but in following the prophecies concerning His people, after being scattered among the nations, in the latter days, He promised that they would be brought back to the land of their fathers, one nation, never to be scattered again.

You can read for yourself the prophecies concerning the gathering of nations against Israel, the enormity of their hosts, and how Israel would KNOW that HE was their God, and keeps his promises by the sheer magnitude of the victory.

In other words, according to what I read, there is no possible way in hell for Israel to survive, except for a major Divine intervention.

So I too, was asking myself, "where in hell is the US? As Israel's strongest defender and friend, did the US get wiped out? Does the US turn on Israel? Where do they fit into the disaster that is to come?"

Five years ago, I never, ever would have guessed that we would be in such a sorry-assed financial position as we are today. I never, ever would have guessed that we would have elected a non-person to the White House, one with zero history, zero experience, zero job history, and based on his Presidency so far, such a disaster for the US.

So I THINK that Sarge was attempting to illuminate us as to the condition of the US when this catastrophic event occurs to Israel.

I'm sure he has much more to come, and can fill in the blanks much more fully.

Some of this is over my head, but, I'm at least willing to read, study, contemplate, evaluate, and learn.

One thing about the Almighty. He's never slack in keeping his promises. And that doesn't bode well for a lot of the world.

Good post .......gives us something to consider anyway ..worth a star for your time and sharing it with us anyway ...............I have pondered Obadiah many times and even had dreams where I was told to go and read it again *a few times that happened to me ...... that I was missing something when reading it .............
These scriptures have been going round and round in my brain for awhile now .
Not sure if they fit in or not ..but there is something to it ....I just know it.
I believe they are America and Israel ....


Eze 23:2 Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother:

Eze 23:3 And they committed whoredoms in Egypt; they committed whoredoms in their youth: there were their breasts pressed, and there they bruised the teats of their virginity.

Eze 23:4 And the names of them [were] Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus [were] their names; Samaria [is] Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.

Eze 23:5 And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians [her] neighbours,

Eze 23:6 [Which were] clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.


The whole chapter is interesting ...Here is the rest
www.blueletterbible.org...

Preachin time!

That was well thought out; however I don’t understand how George Washington or others fit in to the theory. Here is my take on it. We agree on a few things except America.

There really isn’t a lot written about us, though we do have significance. I don’t like throwing around Bible verses here at ATS but feel it is appropriate to make the connection on this subject. I’ll most likely forget something or botch it up a bit but here goes.

Anyone who doesn’t like preaching should not read this.

Many scholars believe America is not written in the Bible and it is well hidden. It is so well hidden it is referred to as Mystery Babylon. Also the 2 main places that mention America call for her fiery, sudden destruction. Americans believe we are indivinsible and a great super power but this will not last long.

If we go back we see America mentioned in Isaiah; 13, Isaiah; 47 and again Jeremiah; 50. We are referred to as Babylon, Daughter of Babylon and mystery Babylon. There are even a few books written on this.

In Revelation 14;6-110 Then I saw another angel flying in mid heaven having the eternal gospel to announce to the inhabitants of the earth, to every nation, tribe, language and people. He spoke with a loud voice. Fear God and give him glory because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship the maker of heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.

A second Angel followed saying “It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen who made all nations drink the wine of her sexual immortality which brings wrath.

And the third angel followed them and spoke with a loud voice “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand he will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, which is mixed full strength in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with the fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in sight of the lamb, and the smoke of their torment will go up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or anyone who receives the mark of his name..

So Babylon (America) falls first at as the 5th trumpet is heard, World war three begins as the 6th trumpet is heard. America is blown off the map.

This allows the kings who hate America to defeat her. Russia and China have always despised America and have continued to plan our demise.

Since America began a colony in Great Brittan until the Revolutionary war and Declaration of Independence from the King of England. This is why we refer to Great Brittan as our Mother Country. The only one mentioned in the Bible. I could ramble on and on but it’s also mentioned in Daniel 7:1-28

Here are the biblical animal symbols given to the nations;
Russia, Bear

Great Brittan, Lion,

America, Eagles’ wings, they get plucked and we are left with Great Brittan only.

Germany, Leopard

All the Countries minus the Eagle, equals the Beast

China, 'Middle Kingdom' people to the east.

In ancient Babylon the animal; symbol was a lion with eagles wings. It’s kind of cool how God made the US and EU daughter and Mother Babylon.

Revelation 13-2 the beast I saw was like a leopard his feet were like a Bee’s and his mouth was like a lion’s mouth. The dragon gave him his power, his throne and great authority. All this points to the United Kingdom of where the Beast will control first.

In Daniel it says the anti-Christ will rise out of the people who came and destroyed the second temple Daniel 9-26, OR the Roman Empire. United Kingdom was a part of the Roman Empire when that happened in 70 CE.

The Roman Empire is coming together once again through the European Union which the UK is part of. I hope that isn’t complicated.

First, I’d like to thank all of you for your post to this thread, including those expressing misgivings with my application of the scriptures, or for having presumed to think that the absence of largest world power from the prophetic activities of the anti-Christ in Daniel Chapter 11 should not be of concern to Americans. All input, is of course welcome.

First off, the attempted maligning and discrediting of Washington’s Vision for America has been a coordinated effort of the secular historical revisionist – the same ones who claim that America was started as a secular nation. However, there is just one small problem with this, any American can request a copy of it from the Library of Congress as it is the second book it published, after the King James Bible. Furthermore, the vision was first widely published in a newspaper in 1859 (this was the point that the History Channel used to try to discredit it on their Presidential Prophecies series, even with its foretelling of events that would take place decades after it was first published) and the vision is referred to by several founding fathers in their personal journals; which even the History Channel had to admit.


[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by xxpigxx

How else would you explain the madness in the world?

The world has certainly been more mad than this. WWII was probably one of the worst times in our history, we're no where near that. Have you ever considered how many generations believe theirs is approaching the end? It's because people see what they want to see, people are drawn to doomsday scenarios.

How else would you explain alot of the world's prophecies seemingly beginning to converge?

Could you please list these prophecies? And not your interpretation of them but the actual prophecies. I'm confident that I can find many other examples of such occurrences through out history.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

The Babylon inferences in scripture do not preclude the understanding or application of the scriptures I have transliterated. There are 4 Babylonian inferences; 3 are spiritual references to the ‘chief prince of’ controlling ‘religion’, ‘politics’ and ‘finances’. However the grammar used, when referencing any of these, in the original Koine Greek does not lend itself to a singular nation, but rather a condition or collection of the nations. This is another example of force fitting a denominational teaching into the scripture.

Indeed, the lion with wings was the royal symbol of Babylon and those wings are plucked off in Jeremiah 50 with the coalition attack on ‘Babylon’ from which she never rises again as a world power. Surprisingly, Jeremiah 50:9 has a very good Hebrew description of tomahawk missiles. Jeremiah 51 speaks to the ‘near’ prophetic destruction of Babylon by the Meads and Persians.

Attempting to make America the ‘Mystery Babylon' contradicts more scriptures than I can quote here, but it is clearly contradicted by the fact that if it IS America, then America would still be there to contest with the Beast at the beginnings of his conquest and exploits in the Middle East oil fields; there would not be such glaring an absence of America if we were still capable of a response. More that this, what city in America is known for sitting on seven hills?


[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by SGTChas

There's only one city in history that is known as the city of seven hills. Rome.

Rome, the secular power, a beast to be sure.

And when that was destroyed, I note that the beast was arisen.

Papal Rome.

That which has been drunk with the blood of the saints.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

The world has certainly been more mad than this. WWII was probably one of the worst times in our history, we're no where near that. Have you ever considered how many generations believe theirs is approaching the end? It's because people see what they want to see, people are drawn to doomsday scenarios.

But none of those times had all the pieces of the puzzle in play like we do now

Could you please list these prophecies? And not your interpretation of them but the actual prophecies. I'm confident that I can find many other examples of such occurrences through out history.

[edit on 16-5-2009 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Mayans 2012, The Great Mahdi, Matreiyah, St. Malacy's Prophecy to start with . . .

This is more involved then what I had wished to get to keep the focus narrowed on America’s pulling out of the end times in tact, however I will give a small time line, if you will, on the events leading up to the Lord’s return to New Jerusalem:

1. The United States is brought to its knees with several events, removing its military capabilities from the either the inventory of the Beast Empire, or contesting with it.

2. The Beast consolidates power throughout Europe and the Middle East signing the seven-year peace treaty.

3. Russia and Persia invade Israel when Israel begins to pump up oil from the huge reserve it found as prophesied, (This IS NOT ARMAGEDDON) and God swats them like flies; also “raining fire on those who dwell securely in the coast lands”.

4. The famines and plague result from wars spread.

5. Wide spread Christian persecution for refusing the mark.

6. Britain and the “young lions thereof” send ships to contend with the Beast.

7. The Beast moves in to set in the rebuilt temple to declare Himself God.

8. The Jews realize they made a covenant with death as half the city is destroyed when they rise up to fight the sacrilege of the ‘Abomination of Desolation’.

9. The Anti-Christ gathers the Worlds Armies to come against Israel.

10. The Lord gathers His people to stand with Him at the Mount of Olives to deal with mankind – sort of a ‘sideways’ rapture.

11. With rapid-fire sequence the bowl and vial judgments are poured out.

12. Then we send ships with gifts for the King in New Jerusalem.

This is a quick outline of events leading up to the last of my prophetic post. I will not attempt to flesh this out as to do so would take MUCH typing and be WAY off topic.


[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by xxpigxx


Don't forget, Mother Shipton, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce.

And that's the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

All seem to converge on a near time period.

Not to mention the Old Testament prophets that prophecy the reestablishment of Israel in the end times, and the destruction soon to come.

reply to post by dooper


Exactly right Brother Dooper. This is what I try to tell people when studying the Bible, if ONE verse clearly contradicts what you believe the scripture says, then there is a problem with what you believe and not the scripture. This ‘spiritualizing’ prophetic (and other verses, like on healing) verses to make them fit Denominational teaching is why there is such confusion and lack of power in the Church today.

[edit on 5/16/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by xxpigxx

But none of those times had all the pieces of the puzzle in play like we do now

Which pieces are you referring to? Specifically.

Mayans 2012, The Great Mahdi, Matreiyah, St. Malacy's Prophecy to start with . . .

Never heard of the last three. What are they and how have they come to pass?
As for 2012, that has not happened yet, and there is little evidence that it will.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

Which pieces are you referring to? Specifically.

*Israel being a nation again

*the great increase of knowledge and travel

*the weird weather

*wars (and rumors of war) everywhere

*The Feast Days map

*Signs in the heavens

etc.

Never heard of the last three. What are they and how have they come to pass?
As for 2012, that has not happened yet, and there is little evidence that it will.

I never said they have come to pass. I said that all prophecies are converging.

The Mahdi = The Islamic saviour

Matreiyah = The Buddhist saviour

St. Malachy's Prophecy = We are on the second to the last pope. The last pope is Peter reincarnated.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage

Never heard of the last three. What are they and how have they come to pass?
As for 2012, that has not happened yet, and there is little evidence that it will.

Hasn't happened yet? I'm curious now - what exactly do you think 'prophecy' is? How do you define it to leave out things that haven't happened yet?

Now to be honest, The maya 'prophecy' doesn't specify the end of THE world, just the end of A world, not necessarily a purely physical concept.

But a definition of prophecy that precludes things that 'haven't happened yet'?

nenothtu out